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Route of the 11th Street Connector?

Posted by gbs on Sat Dec 5 22:19:40 2009

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The entire connector as seen from in the tunnel seems to be cut-and-cover, so it probably follows the street pattern, since no true deep-bore tunneling seems to have been done.

Does anyone know (or better yet, have a map of) the streets it goes under, as it winds its way from the cutoff at the 60th street tube to Queens Plaza?

Does it actually follow under 11th Street for a while, or is that just where the cutoff is? And the Queens-bound track crosses under Jackson Avenue so it can join the other Queens-bound local track just outside of Queens Plaza; does it go close to the Court House or the rail yards?

Happy Anniversary!

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(867967)

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Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?

Posted by G1Ravage on Sun Dec 6 03:16:03 2009, in response to Route of the 11th Street Connector?, posted by gbs on Sat Dec 5 22:19:40 2009.

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Coming northbound through the 60th Street Tunnel, Track GD2 splits off between 10th Street and 11th Street. It doesn't go directly south, but I believe it more or less follows 43rd Avenue to Jackson Avenue. It should join Track D2 beneath Jackson Avenue somewhere between Orchard Street and West Street.

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(868356)

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Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?

Posted by gbs on Sun Dec 6 22:45:44 2009, in response to Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?, posted by G1Ravage on Sun Dec 6 03:16:03 2009.

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Thanks! Maybe there are ventilation grates on the sidewalks that can help trace the route.

I wonder if they tore down buildings in the way where the route went under blocks instead of streets.

It's always been interesting to see the couple of newer houses on the block beyond the Grant Avenue (A) stationhouse where the station was built in the middle of the block.

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(868365)

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Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?

Posted by VictorM on Sun Dec 6 23:30:41 2009, in response to Route of the 11th Street Connector?, posted by gbs on Sat Dec 5 22:19:40 2009.

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In the northbound (Queensbound) direction it branches off at 11 St, then runs BETWEEN the Queensboro Bridge supporting piers to 22 St, then turns right on a diagonal under parking lots to 24 St and 43 Av, then turns left and runs for a block along 43 Av to Crescent St and continues straight ahead (43 Av turns towards the right) under some garages (which were built later) and dives under the E/V ramp coming up from 23 Ely and climbs a short steep left-turning grade, merging with the local track coming from Court Square just south of the Queens Plaza platform. In the southbound direction it branches from the local track about 300 feet south of the QP platform, passes under an office building (which was built later) and those same garages, and runs alongside the northbound track to 22 St, where it continues west along Bridge Plaza North to the merge at 11 St. Interesting construction!

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(869576)

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Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?

Posted by gbs on Wed Dec 9 00:36:15 2009, in response to Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?, posted by VictorM on Sun Dec 6 23:30:41 2009.

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Thanks for the great details! Parking lots are often an indication of off-street subway tunneling, like at Smith Street and Schermerhorn Street, where the A/C turn from Smith to Schermerhorn.

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(869736)

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Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?

Posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Dec 9 12:03:39 2009, in response to Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?, posted by VictorM on Sun Dec 6 23:30:41 2009.

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So this would be the approximate path, right?


View GD Tracks in a larger map

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(869757)

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Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?

Posted by G1Ravage on Wed Dec 9 13:23:06 2009, in response to Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?, posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Dec 9 12:03:39 2009.

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No. Track GD2, after splitting off from Track G2, should run diagonally away from G2. They definitely don't run parallel to G1 and G2 all the way to 23rd Street.

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(869958)

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Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?

Posted by VictorM on Wed Dec 9 19:26:12 2009, in response to Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?, posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Dec 9 12:03:39 2009.

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That's right. The former diamond crossover between the Manhattan and Queensbound connector tracks was located at about 23 St. You can see the subway grating on 23 St at about the point have on your map. You can also see subway gratings at the southwest corner of 22 St & Bridge Plaza South, the northwest corner of 24 St & 43 Av, and on Hunter St just north of 43 Av in front of a garage that the connector passes under.

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(869960)

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Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?

Posted by Union Turnpike on Wed Dec 9 19:46:30 2009, in response to Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?, posted by gbs on Sun Dec 6 22:45:44 2009.

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I agree - Grant Avenue (A) was built in the middle of the block as the (A) connects to the old Fulton Street el just beyond Grant.

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(869993)

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Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?

Posted by VictorM on Wed Dec 9 21:06:00 2009, in response to Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?, posted by VictorM on Wed Dec 9 19:26:12 2009.

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Correction: The grating at 22 St & Bridge Plaza South is at the southeast (not southwest) corner. Also, that garage on Hunter St has been torn down, but you can clearly see the grating on Hunter St just south of the viaduct, if you use Google street view.

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(870127)

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Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?

Posted by gbs on Thu Dec 10 03:30:17 2009, in response to Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?, posted by G1Ravage on Wed Dec 9 13:23:06 2009.

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I agree. The grate at 22 St. and Queens Plaza may be for the Brooklyn-bound track only, which has split from the other one as it goes under the N tracks and curves left to join them.

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(870129)

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Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?

Posted by G1Ravage on Thu Dec 10 04:15:17 2009, in response to Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?, posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Dec 9 12:03:39 2009.

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Hmm...interesting. I just noticed that, if the departure point of the 11th Street cut south of Queens Plaza is correct, then it runs directly beneath a certain Transit-owned building....

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(870333)

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Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?

Posted by VictorM on Thu Dec 10 18:01:59 2009, in response to Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?, posted by gbs on Thu Dec 10 03:30:17 2009.

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I remember the original construction from the early 1950's. I particularly remember the "trench" between the bridge supporting piers around 21 St. If the Queensbound connector track (GD2) had curved away sooner it would have had to pass through the basement of what was then the huge Silvercup Bread Factory. Not very likely.

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(870518)

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Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?

Posted by gbs on Fri Dec 11 00:51:26 2009, in response to Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?, posted by VictorM on Thu Dec 10 18:01:59 2009.

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That's a wonderful memory to have, and this is why I'm curious about the route, because I don't remember the construction.

Nevertheless, if you ride the front and watch as the Queens-bound R diverges from G2 to GD2, it bears right and keeps going on that diagonal direction, without ever getting back to parallel with G2. While it's unlikely that GD2 goes under the Silvercup bakery building, it must go under some blocks that have been rebuilt, until it gets back under a street.

The trench you remember probably was for GD1 as it approached G1 by going under the bridge and the N track structure.

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(870527)

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Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?

Posted by VictorM on Fri Dec 11 01:47:09 2009, in response to Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?, posted by gbs on Fri Dec 11 00:51:26 2009.

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But there's a reverse curve where GD2 branches off from G2. The R train branches right at the diverging switch, but then turns left until it is parallel with G2 and stays that way for about a train length. At that point the front of the train would be around 21 St, and because of the width of the bridge and Bridge Plaza South, could begin a right turn, just missing the northeast corner of the Silvercup building at 22 St, and then continue on a diagonal across the parking lots to 43 Av and 24 St.

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(871043)

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Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?

Posted by gbs on Sat Dec 12 00:20:33 2009, in response to Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?, posted by VictorM on Fri Dec 11 01:47:09 2009.

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Well, it's possible, so I'll have to ride the front again and check the curves. (Where are the 32s and 42s when you need them?)

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(871140)

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Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?

Posted by mike cruz on Sat Dec 12 10:43:25 2009, in response to Re: Route of the 11th Street Connector?, posted by Union Turnpike on Wed Dec 9 19:46:30 2009.

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heh no basements for those guys.

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