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| Re: Small Question About The (E) (850060) | |
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| (850441) | |
Re: Small Question About The (E) |
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Posted by lrg5784 on Fri Oct 30 21:24:13 2009, in response to Re: Small Question About The (E), posted by daDouce Man on Fri Oct 30 17:05:11 2009. Yeah, except from what I heard, they never really had any plans to extend the (7) back then. |
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| (850442) | |
Re: Small Question About The (E) |
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Posted by lrg5784 on Fri Oct 30 21:25:04 2009, in response to Re: Small Question About The (E), posted by daDouce Man on Fri Oct 30 17:07:40 2009. Who wouldn't? If someone knows anyone who works for TA and has access to the lower level, for a fact they'll ask them to take them downstairs. I'd do the same thing. |
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| (850456) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Fri Oct 30 21:47:38 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Fri Oct 30 19:19:36 2009. At the S/E corner of Queens Blvd and Jackson Ave there is a provision in the girders for a crosstown El in plain sight.But nothing anywhere about a Bedford Avenue subway. |
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| (850459) | |
Re: Small Question About The (E) |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Fri Oct 30 21:49:52 2009, in response to Re: Small Question About The (E), posted by lrg5784 on Fri Oct 30 21:24:13 2009. Then why are there 2 tracks from Times Square to just before 8 Avenue? |
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Re: Small Question About The (E) |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Fri Oct 30 21:53:44 2009, in response to Re: Small Question About The (E), posted by lrg5784 on Fri Oct 30 21:25:04 2009. Some people have also claimed access to 76 Street. |
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| (850465) | |
Re: Small Question About The (E) |
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Posted by lrg5784 on Fri Oct 30 22:02:48 2009, in response to Re: Small Question About The (E), posted by daDouce Man on Fri Oct 30 21:49:52 2009. That...I really don't know. Maybe they just built them for the purpose of tail tracks maybe? I'm not so sure on these details myself. You're better off asking someone else though, but I read from a website that they really didn't to extend the (7) at that time. |
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| (850466) | |
Re: Small Question About The (E) |
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Posted by lrg5784 on Fri Oct 30 22:04:18 2009, in response to Re: Small Question About The (E), posted by daDouce Man on Fri Oct 30 21:53:44 2009. |
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| (850469) | |
Re: Small Question About The (E) |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Oct 30 22:09:53 2009, in response to Re: Small Question About The (E), posted by daDouce Man on Fri Oct 30 18:20:23 2009. While I can't speak for Hylan, I am happy to have the IND. Perfect? No, but a very good start. And, having lived in Chicago and here in Oakland (BART) as well as NYC, I prefer subways to Els, much as I love CTA. As I have said before I truly wish the full Second System had happened. SAS, more routes in Brooklyn, Bronx and Queens. A connection to Staten Island. What's not to like? Look, if we had the bucks, reaming out the old parts of the IRT to have EVERYTHING BMT sized would be cool. Never gonna happen, but my point is greater flexibility, better route integration service to more neighborhoods make for a greater city. I treasure the fact that the IRT was built, I came east five years ago for the Centennial, but given that labor is the highest single cost, who would not wish we could run 660' IND trains instead of 510' trains on the 4,5, and 6,Long live the IND! |
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| (850471) | |
Re: Small Question About The (E) |
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Posted by lrg5784 on Fri Oct 30 22:10:12 2009, in response to Re: Small Question About The (E), posted by daDouce Man on Fri Oct 30 21:53:44 2009. Sorry, correction to the above: This I've got to see. Probably a foamer said this to get attention. How come no pictures have surfaced yet? |
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| (850482) | |
Re: Small Question About The (E) |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Fri Oct 30 22:27:58 2009, in response to Re: Small Question About The (E), posted by lrg5784 on Fri Oct 30 22:02:48 2009. I'll accept any suggestions or theorys you might have. |
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Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 30 23:03:34 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 30 13:24:21 2009. I seem to recall that there were unfinished passageways from the west end of the upper level Nostrand platforms. Possibly to connect to a never built Second System line under Bedford Ave. That might explain why the station was built the way it was. |
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| (850503) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by 33rd Street on Fri Oct 30 23:13:22 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by daDouce Man on Fri Oct 30 21:47:38 2009. At the S/E corner of Queens Blvd and Jackson Ave there is a provision in the girders for a crosstown El in plain sight.I've always wondered what those girders were for. Thanks, daDounce Man. I appreciate it. |
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Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 30 23:31:04 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by daDouce Man on Fri Oct 30 17:53:45 2009. So why change the IND Fulton plans to make upper level express platforms with (sealed up) passageways at the west end? it had to be something under Bedford Ave, because the next westbound block is the franklin Ave station. The BMT/BRT crosstown el was dead by then. It's a puzzle, for sure! |
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Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Fri Oct 30 23:35:10 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 30 23:03:34 2009. There was an overpass over there that took you from the Manhattan Bound Side to the Queens Side. There was also a P/T booth over there.The passageway itself was finished. I think the whole passageway was an after thought like the station was. But I've never seen anything about a Bedford Avenue subway. No proposed line. No half built shell station. Nothing! Closest was a crosstwn El that would have connected Queensboro Plaza with the shuttle at Franklin/Fulton |
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Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Fri Oct 30 23:49:07 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 30 23:31:04 2009. The passageways at Nostrand are not "sealed up".They're just locked up. Big silver doors and I think you can see the passageway if you look between the doors. The only thing at Bedford/Fulton was a part booth. If there was anything else there, I'd like to see something substancial about it. Not a "Had to be something" statement. I'm not calling you a liar. I just want to see some solid proof of it or proposal of it. So far I haven't seen it. I checked google and Still have found nothing about it. |
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Re: 50 St/8 Av is a unique station |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Sat Oct 31 00:04:13 2009, in response to Re: 50 St/8 Av is a unique station, posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 30 13:15:49 2009. That's a shame. I do hope those hs would be relocated in the future so they can built the Utica Av line. |
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Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Oct 31 00:42:03 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by daDouce Man on Fri Oct 30 23:49:07 2009. I am as stumped as you are! What happened in the early 1930's that made them alter the plans for Nostrand Ave? And why were those passageways built? There is nothing to lie about!!! |
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| (850540) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Oct 31 02:29:43 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by daDouce Man on Fri Oct 30 23:35:10 2009. While there were no specific structures for the proposed Bedford Av Subway, there were physical spaces built into bot the Fulton St and Crosstown Lines' infrastructures that would have allowed for the Bedford Av Subway similar to those built at 2 Av for the SAS. |
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| (850550) | |
Re: Small Question About The (L) |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Oct 31 03:55:44 2009, in response to Small Question About The (E), posted by Union Turnpike on Thu Oct 29 22:41:06 2009. Would everyone here agree that there's a major GO on the L line at least 35 weekends per year? I can't imagine living along that line and having to get to New York City on weekends. |
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| (850552) | |
Re: Small Question About The (L) |
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Posted by Jsun21 on Sat Oct 31 04:07:37 2009, in response to Re: Small Question About The (L), posted by LuchAAA on Sat Oct 31 03:55:44 2009. Did it for years. If you're serious about Manhattan it's a short ride to the A, or walk it to the 3. Most people served by the L are also on the B20 and B83 (and outside of the early parts of rush hour the buses are more full than the L). Some people are really in a hurry and get on the LIRR at Atlantic and catch their train there, though I never really tried that. |
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| (850553) | |
Re: Small Question About The (L) |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Oct 31 04:18:21 2009, in response to Re: Small Question About The (L), posted by Jsun21 on Sat Oct 31 04:07:37 2009. ok. but people in places like Ridgewood, Bushwick etc.......are screwed by all this. |
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| (850556) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Oct 31 05:18:48 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by daDouce Man on Fri Oct 30 21:47:38 2009. At the S/E corner of Queens Blvd and Jackson Ave there is a provision in the girders for a crosstown El in plain sight.Are you possibly confusing those with the BMT relay tracks that were used until 1949? |
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| (850558) | |
Re: Small Question About The (L) |
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Posted by lrg5784 on Sat Oct 31 05:48:55 2009, in response to Re: Small Question About The (L), posted by LuchAAA on Sat Oct 31 04:18:21 2009. (L) to the (M) to the (J)...It may be a PITA but hey, you really don't have a choice. I do agree that something's always going on along the (L) though. |
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| (850563) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sat Oct 31 07:25:40 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by Elkeeper on Sat Oct 31 00:42:03 2009. And why were those passageways built?I've no idea. My guess is Nostrand was going to be a local stop with a full upper level mezzazine. After construction started it was decided that it would be an express stop. Why the local wasn't put upstairs? I don't know. Maybe at the time it was easier to have the local on the lower level. The mezzazine became an upper level for the express and an overpass at Bedford was built to allow customers to cross from one side to the other. IMO the overpass should have been built closer to Nostrand than to Bedford. Back in the day the overpass was was away from the booths, deserted and not very safe. |
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| (850564) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sat Oct 31 07:28:35 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by randyo on Sat Oct 31 02:29:43 2009. Where on the Fulton St and Crosstown Lines' infrastructures were they? |
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Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sat Oct 31 07:35:39 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Oct 31 05:18:48 2009. If you've ever been there you'd see girders suggesting 2 track making a turn on to Jackson Ave instead of contining on to 33 Street. |
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| (850599) | |
Re: Small Question About The (L) |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Oct 31 09:51:12 2009, in response to Re: Small Question About The (L), posted by lrg5784 on Sat Oct 31 05:48:55 2009. A Larry to the Moe to the Curly - poor sZemp must feel left out.:) |
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| (850630) | |
Re: Small Question About The (L) |
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Posted by lrg5784 on Sat Oct 31 11:48:24 2009, in response to Re: Small Question About The (L), posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Oct 31 09:51:12 2009. X-D |
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| (850705) | |
Re: Small Question About The (E) |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sat Oct 31 14:55:41 2009, in response to Re: Small Question About The (E), posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Oct 30 22:09:53 2009. I read somewhere that within so many years after the IND Second System was built, there was going to be a Third System. The purpose was to have a subway station within a certain distance of every home in NYC. |
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Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Oct 31 15:01:25 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by daDouce Man on Sat Oct 31 07:28:35 2009. On the Fulton St Line the tunnel roof is unusually high to provide the space for the construction of the future subway. At the Bedford Av end of the G Bedford/Nostrand station there is a similar provision but neither one of them is as elaborate as the completed station structures at Bway on the G or Utica on the A. To anyone not really knowing what to look for, it could be easily missed. Even then, the provisions are so superficial that even if you saw them you might not realize it. |
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Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Oct 31 15:04:59 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by daDouce Man on Sat Oct 31 07:25:40 2009. As was mentioned in other posts, the long passageway at the N/E of Nostrand was to provide a transfer to the proposed Bedford Av subway which is why the overpass was placed there. With there being less than no possibility of such a subway ever being built, and for security reasons, there was really no reason to keep the passageway open. |
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| (850718) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sat Oct 31 15:38:03 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by randyo on Sat Oct 31 15:01:25 2009. I've been to the back end of Bway on the G and I climbed the stairs to the path to the line there and to what was the P/T there. I had a flashlight and had a camera with 400 ISO speed in it. The pictures didn't come out too great. It was very dark back there. I had to aim my camera then close my eyes as I took the picture because the flash would have blinded me. And back there you couldn't afford to go blind!At Utica on the A the best way to explain why you were explorong the platform was saying you were going to the employees toilet while working at the booth that day. If there was a provision at the Bedford Av end of the G Bedford/Nostrand, it was walled over and the mezzazine looks normal. And I was looking for such a provision! The closest I saw was at the Nostrand end of the station. The tunnel headings that would have continued along Lafayette. If anyone was in the tower I would have stopped in and looked at the board. |
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Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sat Oct 31 15:41:07 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by randyo on Sat Oct 31 15:04:59 2009. Is there a website that mentions the proposed Bedford Avenue Subway?I've checked Google and couldn't find one. Just a mention of a BRT Crosstown El. |
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Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Oct 31 17:04:36 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by daDouce Man on Sat Oct 31 15:41:07 2009. Of all the proposed IND "second system" or even "third system" lines there seems to be the least information about the Bedford Av subway other than that one was proposed. That may also be why there are only minimal provisions for its construction as opposed to other lines of the IND "second system." |
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Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Oct 31 17:05:49 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by daDouce Man on Sat Oct 31 15:41:07 2009. Of all the proposed IND "second system" or even "third system" lines there seems to be the least information about the Bedford Av subway other than that one was proposed. That may also be why there are only minimal provisions for its construction as opposed to other lines of the IND "second system." |
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Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Oct 31 17:15:13 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by daDouce Man on Sat Oct 31 07:35:39 2009. you'd see girders suggesting 2 track making a turn on to Jackson Ave instead of contining on to 33 Street.Here's a link to the 1924 track map of Queensboro Plaza. N.B. the relay tracks in red that were added after the station opened. They travel from the north side of the station under the IRT. They might appear to be heading towards Jackson, however they merged to become a single relay/layup track on the south side of the elevated structure on Queens Blvd over the LIRR. |
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Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sat Oct 31 17:28:59 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by randyo on Sat Oct 31 17:04:36 2009. As I understand it, the Third System was nothing definate when it was first announced in 1929. It was nothing more than vague long range plans or daydreams by IND planners. Maybe the Bedford Avenue Subway was planned fior the Third System. |
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Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sat Oct 31 17:30:30 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by randyo on Sat Oct 31 17:05:49 2009. Based on what you heard/know,the Bedford Ave subway would have went from where to where? |
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Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Oct 31 18:58:00 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Oct 31 17:15:13 2009. PWN3D! |
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| (850762) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Oct 31 19:09:26 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by randyo on Sat Oct 31 15:04:59 2009. LOL, PWN3D again. |
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Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sat Oct 31 19:29:09 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Oct 31 17:15:13 2009. The girder over there suggests a turn onto Jackson Ave.Unless it got warped from all the rebuilding since 1949. |
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| (850777) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sat Oct 31 19:32:28 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by randyo on Sat Oct 31 17:04:36 2009. Let's see, the Bronx 205th Street station of the current D train was supposed to be extended further into the northern Bronx, but when the funding ran out, that became the terminal. To most transit fans that is not a mystery.Let's see, the Brooklyn IND Fulton Street ended at Rockaway Avenue for several years because the funding ran out, even though the tunnels and stations to at least Broadway-East New York were completed. That is not a mystery to fans, its in the record. Let's see, the existence of dead-ends and unfinished track sidings, and other planned stuff built into the IND subway is not a mystery to transit fans. Many transit fans love to speculate on which lines would have traveled to Far Rockaway well before it was thought the A-line would. Or if the 76th Avenue station exists or not. Those are not mysteries to transit fans. So why is there any discussion about the possibly planned but never built Bedford Avenue line in Brooklyn? It is not a mystery that little can actually be found. Where are the detailed plans, the blue print diagrams for the Second System of the IND subway, or the Third System? How many times have some transit fans created out of the realm of their imaginations whole subway lines connecting all of the boroughs? How many times have some transit fans attempted to persuade others that the M and V should be combined, that the SAS should travel to Brooklyn or the Bronx or across 125th Street, that the Air-Train should be extended to Manhattan, or the MJ route be re-constructed, or the Staten Island North Shore Rail-line revived, or the old Bronx Third Avenue El, or the N and W lines extended to the airport. Dozens of ideas, all talked about, almost to the point that they are "real". Now some transit fans question the Bedford Avenue subway, but they can swallow all of the other stuff? A very wierd bunch. (smile) Mike |
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| (850803) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Oct 31 20:06:29 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by Michael549 on Sat Oct 31 19:32:28 2009. What I was saying is that there are some sorts of cursory and in a few cases detailed plans for a number of the second system lines like the Utica/Stuyvesant, Myrtle/Central etc some even including rudimentary track plans and in many cases, actual station shells built for these lines. I have seen absolutely nothing in print concerning the Bedford Av Subway but only know of it through other railfans and the little physical evidence there is of its possible future existence. By the way, the IND didn't terminate at Rockaway Av due to lack of funds. Construction of the Fulton St line out to and past Euclid was continuing. What prevented further construction was that just as the rail and signal equipment was about to be ordered for Bway/ENY and the station finish for the stations from there to Euclid and beyond, WWII intervened and any such material that would have been required for completion of the subway was now needed for the war effort. That being said, its surprising that construction the State St subway in Chicago continued to its completion despite the onset of the war although, construction of the Dearborn St subway which was started around the same time was delayed until well after the end of the war. |
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| (850805) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Oct 31 20:09:11 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by daDouce Man on Sat Oct 31 17:30:30 2009. Even that little bit of information seems to be sorely lacking. |
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Re: 50 St/8 Av is a unique station |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Oct 31 20:12:16 2009, in response to Re: 50 St/8 Av is a unique station, posted by Grand Concourse on Sat Oct 31 00:04:13 2009. Not to worry; some good bulldozers and wrecking balls will make quick work of that and anything else standing in the way of the Utica Ave subway. I'm sure many folks here will be happy to operate those bulldozers too. |
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| (850812) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Oct 31 20:13:40 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by daDouce Man on Sat Oct 31 15:38:03 2009. no, you totally don't understand what he is telling you.I had to aim my camera then close my eyes as I took the picture because the flash would have blinded me. thanks for the funny mental image. was your tie also tucked into your pants at the time? :) |
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| (850814) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Oct 31 20:15:47 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by randyo on Sat Oct 31 15:01:25 2009. To anyone not really knowing what to look for, it could be easily missedbingo re: douce |
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| (850818) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sat Oct 31 20:20:01 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by randyo on Sat Oct 31 20:06:29 2009. I have seen absolutely nothing in print concerning the Bedford Av Subway but only know of it through other railfans and the little physical evidence there is of its possible future existence.That pretty much answers my question about the Bedford Avenue Subway. I'm curious about what little physical evidence there is out there. But that can wait for a while longer. By the way, the IND didn't terminate at Rockaway Av due to lack of funds. Construction of the Fulton St line out to and past Euclid was continuing. The big question was "How Far Past Euclid?" It doesn't say if 76 Street was built or not. But it makes the possibilly more likely than before. |
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| (850825) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sat Oct 31 20:32:52 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by randyo on Sat Oct 31 17:05:49 2009. IMO in 1929 when the Depression started, NYC was committed to building and finishing what they already started. Everything else had to wait for a later time, scrapped or had plans cut back drastically. |
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| (850827) | |
Re: Nostrand Ave. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sat Oct 31 20:36:34 2009, in response to Re: Nostrand Ave., posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Oct 31 20:13:40 2009. I had taken it off for my meal break. |
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