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| (825456) | |
The R-8 Newtown line is not dead |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Aug 25 18:11:27 2009 Spurred on by new development and the fact that the R2 & R3 can't handle the loads with the population explosion in the area, there is a good chance of getting the Newtown Line back.Refer to this link below for the news. People are really getting excited about this! Newtown Line |
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Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Aug 25 18:38:14 2009, in response to The R-8 Newtown line is not dead, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Aug 25 18:11:27 2009. It'll pass.Sorry for the pessimism. It's just that I don't see expensive rail projects surviving tough economic times. |
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Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead |
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Posted by shiznit1987 on Tue Aug 25 18:44:24 2009, in response to Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Aug 25 18:38:14 2009. If it's going to come back, it's going to come back as a spur off of the R3 at Bethayres. Montgomery county will fight to the death not to bring it back, due to the area it runs through being quite wealthy and not all that fond of PT (Note: The Valley Swim Club incident happened in this area, just so you know where some of these folks are coming from mentally) |
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Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead |
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Posted by shiznit1987 on Tue Aug 25 18:45:29 2009, in response to Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Aug 25 18:38:14 2009. Oh, and me thinks that for now, the R3 West Trenton should simply run half hourly like the R5 Paoli. A selfish dream of mine.... |
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Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead |
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Posted by 156n3rd on Tue Aug 25 19:47:08 2009, in response to Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead, posted by shiznit1987 on Tue Aug 25 18:44:24 2009. NIMBYs don't want da middle class to ride on rails. They want them on the roads so they can pass 'em in the beemies. |
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Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead |
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Posted by shiznit1987 on Tue Aug 25 20:00:52 2009, in response to Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead, posted by 156n3rd on Tue Aug 25 19:47:08 2009. Actually, most of the welalthy would love to have the middle class on the rails ala Europe. Why pass cars if you don't have too?What scares them is transit can "make accessable" their "Good neighborhoods" to "Undesireables". |
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| (825503) | |
Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Aug 25 20:19:48 2009, in response to Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead, posted by shiznit1987 on Tue Aug 25 20:00:52 2009. What scares them is transit can "make accessable" their "Good neighborhoods" to "Undesireables".Indeed. |
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Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 25 22:11:18 2009, in response to Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead, posted by shiznit1987 on Tue Aug 25 20:00:52 2009. What scares them is transit can "make accessable" their "Good neighborhoods" to "Undesireables"Roads do that far more effectively. Mountain Lakes NJ has had the Boonton Line going through for well over a century. No "undesirables" hop on and off there. |
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Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 25 22:29:02 2009, in response to The R-8 Newtown line is not dead, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Aug 25 18:11:27 2009. Where exactly is new news here? The latest link on the News section is titled "Newtown Branch to become Pennypack Trail" dated July of last year . . . so it makes the situation regarding the Newtown Branch look like its goose is cooked. Did I miss anything . . . ? |
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Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead |
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Posted by shiznit1987 on Wed Aug 26 05:24:57 2009, in response to Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 25 22:11:18 2009. We know that. But as you very well know, preception is reality. |
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Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead? |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Aug 26 06:29:45 2009, in response to Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead?, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 25 22:29:02 2009. I read that too, But I hear rumblings and a cry for support.I had to leave the names out of a letter a friend got. Our current hold up with the line appears to be with Abington Township, as the residents of Ward-2 are opposed to the project. I would recommend that you contact your legislators in Montgomery County to ask them to support the project. We have added a few Montco politicians to the website that you can contact directly. Xxx Xxxx representing Bryn Athyn is behind us. At some point, we may be having a meeting with Abington to discuss the project. If you know of anyone in Abington that can help get behind this, it would be a big help. It also appears that there is some degree of opposition in Northampton as well. Thank you again, |
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Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 26 10:23:22 2009, in response to Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 25 22:11:18 2009. Yeah, but travel 3 miles east to Boonton and it's a different story. |
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Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead? |
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Posted by ctrabs74 on Wed Aug 26 22:25:24 2009, in response to Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead?, posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Aug 26 06:29:45 2009. Sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but if I were running SEPTA, the R3 would be restored to West Chester before the R8 gets extended back to Newtown. At least the Elwyn to West Chester branch is relatively active compared to the former Newtown branch... |
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Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead |
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Posted by WillD on Wed Aug 26 23:43:20 2009, in response to Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead, posted by shiznit1987 on Tue Aug 25 18:44:24 2009. If it's going to come back, it's going to come back as a spur off of the R3 at Bethayres. Montgomery county will fight to the death not to bring it back, due to the area it runs through being quite wealthy and not all that fond of PTUnfortunately the area most opposed to the restoration is Bryn Athyn, which is located just north of the R3 tracks. Because of that those residents would still have trains passing through their backyards if the Newtown Line were made a branch of the R3 West Trenton. Making the Newtown line a branch off the R2 Warminster with the connection provided by the Trenton Cutoff is a possibility which avoids Bryn Athyn almost entirely. However, splitting the Newtown line from the West Trenton or Warminster lines creates two very weak branches with the Fox Chase and Newtown lines when they could be restored an utilize one train to serve both markets. That having been said I don't see the Fox Chase branch as a particular priority for SEPTA. As Creighton said the R3 to West Chester should be a higher priority, and I'd put the R6 to Pottstown or Reading and R5 to Quakertown or Allentown above an R3 extension. The R3 West Trenton does need help, but SEPTA can alleviate crowding by operating longer peak hour trains, more frequent off-peak trains, and perhaps even constructing a few parking garages in Bucks County to accomodate commuters. I generally prefer a walk-up station, but in this case if SEPTA gets off their ass and starts doing the stuff they've spent the past 15 years talking about I'd rather see areas with no commuter rail for 20 miles get service before we start retreading catchment areas in Bucks and Montgomery counties. We can afford to boost service on existing lines and have people drive until such time as we can rebuild the Newtown line. |
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Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Aug 27 01:48:50 2009, in response to Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead?, posted by ctrabs74 on Wed Aug 26 22:25:24 2009. Why does there need to be a choice between those two?The fact that they're both gone speaks to SEPTA's flawed rail culture. |
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Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead? |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Aug 27 12:16:04 2009, in response to Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead?, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Aug 27 01:48:50 2009. From another email I got. BRT might be another way.To all: I have just received a copy of the 2005 BRT study conducted by BucksTMA on the Newtown Branch. While this is not the preferred or optimal use for the corridor, the study has some interesting findings which were not made available to the public, until now. Section 5 contains some interesting numbers for ridership projections, of 2,100 riders per day which is fairly significant for a bus route that does not offer direct service to Center City. I would imagine that number to be much higher if the mode was electric rail. The study does not say if these riders would be new riders, or riders coming off of the R2/R3 lines, but it would probably be a mix, and make some difference with helping the situation on the R2/R3. In any case, this study was never made public, and BucksTMA claims the study was dropped for lack of interest. At this point, we should be pushing them to complete a similar study for rail (diesel and electric) to give us a better idea of the feasibility of rail service on the line. Since most of their data is current, they should be able to put together a report using estimated costs without spending a lot of money. I have not had any luck in convincing BucksTMA to do this, I would ask that each of you send in a request to Diane Marseglia, who is one of the Bucks County Commissioners, who can in turn put a request in with Bill Rickett at BucksTMA. We might even push her for a public meeting to determine public interest before proceeding. We know Montgomery county will not participate unless significant pressure is put on them to allow Bucks County to take the line back. Her Email address is: dmellismarseglia@co.bucks.pa.us |
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Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead? |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Aug 27 12:19:21 2009, in response to Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead?, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Aug 27 12:16:04 2009. Another email.To all: We officially now have active opposition to restoring service on the Newtown Line through Montgomery County, making this a single county project. In order for us to continue this effort, we are going to require a significant amount of support from residents in Abington & Montgomery County to make any progress. I have not informed my contacts in Bucks County Government yet. A few points: 1 – These individuals who oppose the line are the minority. There are more people who live away from the trail and who do not use the trail than those that do. 2- No one has stated or suggested at this point that the trail and railroad could not co-exist. 3- It is most likely these folks do not want the train because the do not want/use/like the train. It is invasive to their way of life. 4- When SEPTA signed the lease with Montco to make the trail, it was done so very quietly. Bucks County had no opportunity to comment on this move. SEPTA is renowned (and usually legally required) to hold public hearings when making significant changes to the system. Surely they were aware that by allowing conversion to a trail, even on a temporary lease, would have permanent ramifications that would jeopardize the ability of this corridor to be used for future transportation purposes. Yet Bucks County and the public had no opportunity to comment or endorse/oppose the move. SEPTA is funded by multiple counties, yet they colluded with Montgomery County to put this trail in, which happened at lightning speed. Yet 2 years earlier, SEPTA denied Bucks County/Upper Southampton from putting a trail on the right of way there, because they wanted to preserve the corridor for future transit use. So why was Bucks County denied, but Montgomery County approved? 5- This trail cost Montgomery County NOTHING. They were paid $200,000 by a recovery company to collect the steel rails, which they happily recycled when steel was trading so high before the economy crashed. A few questions: 1- Is the damage permanent or irreversible? 2- In light of the positive numbers from the 2005 BRT study, why was rail NOT compared (geographic, infrastructure and demographic information were on hand, this should have been a matter of making a few calculations, even if they were only informal estimates)? 3- Can we find enough supporters in Montgomery County who will stand with us to push this project forward? This current situation sounds a lot like back room, closed door deal makings under the leadership of GM Joe Casey, who took the reins in February 2008. However, this should not be viewed as a game changer. We would need to ascertain how willing Bucks County is to re-examine the BRT study with respect to rail, and if they are willing to go it alone. I’m open to suggestions from all. |
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Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Sep 4 11:10:48 2009, in response to Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead, posted by WillD on Wed Aug 26 23:43:20 2009. From some emails I gotThey are still working on this , one thought would be a BRT Subject: R8 Newtown Project - Group Meeting I'd like to see if we can get together as a group sometime in September, so we can share notes, collaborate as a group, etc. I think we can plan & move forward meeting once a month. So that being said, please let me know what your schedules are like and what your availability is for a 1-2 hour meeting every month. Until we are better organized in terms of information and direction, we'll need to meet at a public place until we are better established with a township along the line that might allow us to use a facility for meetings. My Location suggestions: -30th Street station food court -SEPTA headquarters basement food court -Oxford Valley Mall food court -Neshaminy Mall food court -King of Prussia Mall My suggested meeting days/times Wednesdays 7pm to ~8pm (malls are quiet these times) or Saturdays 1pm~230pm (and I'm not suggesting food courts because I'm hungry) If anyone has a favorite pub/café where we can sit down for awhile and make some noise, I'm certainly open to that as well. |
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Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Sep 4 17:01:47 2009, in response to The R-8 Newtown line is not dead, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Aug 25 18:11:27 2009. Some more information. Articles, schedules and emails. by transitchuckg |
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Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead? |
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Posted by ebtmikado on Fri Sep 4 17:06:17 2009, in response to Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead?, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Aug 27 12:16:04 2009. BRT is still a bus!People don't like riding buses, which is why light rail is always so much more successful. |
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Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead? |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Sep 4 18:13:27 2009, in response to Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead?, posted by ebtmikado on Fri Sep 4 17:06:17 2009. I agree. |
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Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 4 23:20:39 2009, in response to Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead?, posted by ebtmikado on Fri Sep 4 17:06:17 2009. You limiting this to "light" rail . . . ? The R8 was not that. |
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Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Sep 5 23:15:45 2009, in response to Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead?, posted by ebtmikado on Fri Sep 4 17:06:17 2009. False! Idiot!!! |
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Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 5 23:19:53 2009, in response to Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead?, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Sep 5 23:15:45 2009. No, not false, bigger idiot and self-hata . . . |
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Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead? |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sun Sep 6 00:32:15 2009, in response to Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead?, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Aug 27 12:16:04 2009. In any case, this study was never made public, and BucksTMA claims the study was dropped for lack of interest. At this point, we should be pushing them to complete a similar study for rail (diesel and electric) to give us a better idea of the feasibility of rail service on the line. Since most of their data is current, they should be able to put together a report using estimated costs without spending a lot of money.I have not had any luck in convincing BucksTMA to do this, I would ask that each of you send in a request to Diane Marseglia, who is one of the Bucks County Commissioners, who can in turn put a request in with Bill Rickett at BucksTMA. We might even push her for a public meeting to determine public interest before proceeding. We know Montgomery county will not participate unless significant pressure is put on them to allow Bucks County to take the line back. I should clarify that TMA Bucks was not the one that performed the survey - rather, they sponsored it. TMA Bucks, a private, non-profit agency, is also not a part of the Bucks County Planning Commission, who they should be chatting with. Finally, why not put this energy and focus on the Quakertown line (which would provide some sort of ANY transit service to the growing Quakertown area) or the R6 Reading Extension. Why are they suddenly so angry now? I guess it boils down to these two things: 1) Newtown Line restoration was removed from the Long Term SEPTA Capital Budget. 2) Montgomery County built their gravel trail I will say this, though. Something needs to be done for the crowded parking at Woodbourne and Warminster Stations. Perhaps garages. Also, the Newtown Bypass needs help. |
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Re: Wayne Newton |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sun Sep 6 00:38:29 2009, in response to Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead?, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sun Sep 6 00:32:15 2009. Wayne Newton is not dead! |
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Re: WB JournalSquare-K-Car |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Sep 6 01:29:57 2009, in response to Re: Wayne Newton, posted by bigrene22 on Sun Sep 6 00:38:29 2009. Yeah, might as well say it. What other streams of unconsciousness you got planned for the rest of the evening . . . ? |
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Re: WB JournalSquare-K-Car |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sun Sep 6 10:24:39 2009, in response to Re: WB JournalSquare-K-Car, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Sep 6 01:29:57 2009. Nope, but you DO have a death wish! |
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Re: WB JournalSquare-K-Car |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sun Sep 6 10:27:33 2009, in response to Re: WB JournalSquare-K-Car, posted by bigrene22 on Sun Sep 6 10:24:39 2009. Haha, just joking you ugly person! Lol! |
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Re: Wayne Newton |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Sun Sep 6 18:56:37 2009, in response to Re: Wayne Newton, posted by bigrene22 on Sun Sep 6 00:38:29 2009. Wayne Newton is not dead!Danke Schoen !  Bill Newkirk |
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Re: Wayne Newton |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sun Sep 6 19:01:00 2009, in response to Re: Wayne Newton, posted by Newkirk Images on Sun Sep 6 18:56:37 2009. Haha! |
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Re: Wayne Newton |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Sun Sep 6 19:29:16 2009, in response to Re: Wayne Newton, posted by bigrene22 on Sun Sep 6 19:01:00 2009. Did you know..... .......was discovered by....  Signature Bill Newkirk |
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Re: Wayne Newton |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sun Sep 6 22:42:22 2009, in response to Re: Wayne Newton, posted by Newkirk Images on Sun Sep 6 19:29:16 2009. Really? |
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Re: Wayne Newton |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sun Sep 6 22:46:35 2009, in response to Re: Wayne Newton, posted by bigrene22 on Sun Sep 6 22:42:22 2009. Well he was on the Jackie Gleason show.... |
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Re: Wayne Newton |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Sep 6 23:48:23 2009, in response to Re: Wayne Newton, posted by Newkirk Images on Sun Sep 6 18:56:37 2009. IMO, Newton has been playing Vegas so long people didn't know what happened to him. |
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Re: Wayne Newton |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Mon Sep 7 01:49:20 2009, in response to Re: Wayne Newton, posted by daDouce Man on Sun Sep 6 23:48:23 2009. Lol. |
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Re: Wayne Newton |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Mon Sep 7 08:00:25 2009, in response to Re: Wayne Newton, posted by bigrene22 on Sun Sep 6 22:42:22 2009. Quote: Was discovered by Jackie Gleason.From IMDB Bill Newkirk |
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Re: Wayne Newton |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Sep 7 16:15:22 2009, in response to Re: Wayne Newton, posted by Newkirk Images on Sun Sep 6 19:29:16 2009. Frightening listening to him singing back then. Sounded too much like a woman. |
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Re: Wayne Newton |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Mon Sep 7 16:16:10 2009, in response to Re: Wayne Newton, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Sep 7 16:15:22 2009. IAWTP. |
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Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Sep 7 16:17:56 2009, in response to Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Sep 4 17:01:47 2009. Of all sad words of tongue or pen, et cetera. Silverliners to Newtown, Allentown and Reading . . . what might have been . . . |
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Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Sep 11 17:20:07 2009, in response to Re: The R-8 Newtown line is not dead, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Sep 7 16:17:56 2009. It's hard to believe there is a push to get this back, but there is.Several politicians are backing the group. It may take 7-10 years but the effort will be worth it. Please visit the website at: Newtown and join up if you are interested. |
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Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead? |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Oct 6 10:40:25 2009, in response to Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead?, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sun Sep 6 00:32:15 2009. I found this today.Today's Philly paper |
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Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead? |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Tue Oct 6 11:30:14 2009, in response to Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead?, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Oct 6 10:40:25 2009. Ah, an update to the same old news, unfortunately. Wish there was that same kind of advocacy for Quakertown, Reading, and NHSL KOP Extension |
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Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead? |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Oct 6 11:48:24 2009, in response to Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead?, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Tue Oct 6 11:30:14 2009. What's going on with the NHSL KOP thing? I thought there were plans for it? They already said they have enough rolling stock for it. |
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Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead? |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Tue Oct 6 11:58:05 2009, in response to Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead?, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Oct 6 11:48:24 2009. There are plans, there's enough rolling stock, and that's about as far as it went it seems. SEPTA supports it, but it appears to be stagnant right now - at least from an outsider's perspective. |
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Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Oct 9 00:29:11 2009, in response to Re: The R8 Newtown line is not dead?, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Tue Oct 6 11:58:05 2009. SEPTA supports itIf they aren't opening it, they aren't supporting it. |
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