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| (811055) | |
Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by Dave on Mon Jul 20 18:33:35 2009 Union: SF train operator blacked out before crashJul 20 01:44 PM US/Eastern SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - The president of San Francisco's transit workers union says a light-rail operator blacked out just before his train crashed into a parked train, injuring dozens of passengers. Union president Irwin Lum told The Associated Press on Monday that a "medical condition" was to blame for the driver's loss of consciousness. Federal investigators reported Sunday that the driver, who has not been named, had turned off the train's automatic controls moments before the collision. Lum said drivers under pressure to keep their trains running on time turn off the controls before entering the West Portal station to speed loading and unloading. Four passengers were seriously injured in Saturday's crash, including the driver. THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below. SAN FRANCISCO (AP)—Federal investigators are trying to find out why the operator of a San Francisco light-rail that crashed into a parked train and injured dozens of passengers had turned off the automatic controls moments before the collision. Had he kept the autopilot on, the train would have slowed down before arriving at the West Portal Station and likely not careened into the other train while going 23 mph, National Transportation Safety Board investigator Ted Turpin said Sunday. He added that the operator never engaged the emergency brake. Turpin said a mechanical inspection of the train that caused the accident has so far not uncovered any problems. The crash on Saturday afternoon injured 48 people, four seriously, in the latest in a series of commuter train wrecks in recent months in the U.S. None of the injuries were life-threatening. A chaotic scene unfolded after the westbound train struck the end of the other train at a boarding platform. The operator was pinned inside his damaged compartment, said San Francisco Fire Lt. Ken Smith. "He was in the front of the train, and part of it was pushed into him," Smith said. "Rescuers had to pry open the doors to get to him and assist him out of the light rail vehicle." Neither Turpin nor local transit officials would identify the driver, but said he started as a San Francisco bus driver in 1979 and switched to light rail in 2007. He was hospitalized after the crash and a drug test had been administered, which was standard procedure for crashes. Investigators will interview the operators to determine the cause, and Turpin said they would look at whether cell phone use played a factor in the crash, as is standard in all train accident investigations. It was the fourth major subway or commuter rail accident in the last 10 months. In September, a commuter rail train crashed with a freight rail in Los Angeles and 25 people died. The crash was blamed on an engineer on the commuter rail texting on a cell phone. About 50 people were injured in Boston in May when a trolley rear-ended another trolley. The conductor admitted to texting when the crash took place. And last month, a subway train rear-ended another in Washington during rush hour, killing nine people. In the San Francisco crash, two Los Angeles-based NTSB investigators are working with transit officials to interview passengers, witnesses and focus on assessing the condition of the train tracks, signal systems and the structural integrity of the train cars involved. Also, investigators had not finished looking at whether the signaling system played a role. Ercan Bektas, 27, who works at a cafe near the intersection of the crash site, said he was finishing his shift Saturday when he "heard something like a bomb." "There was smoke coming out of one car. I went to help and I saw the car crushed," he said. Rail service in the city has resumed since the site was cleared. More than 200 million passengers take San Francisco's mass-transit system, which the city's famous cable cars and historic trolleys. |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by Railman718 on Mon Jul 20 18:35:55 2009, in response to Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by Dave on Mon Jul 20 18:33:35 2009. Union president Irwin Lum told The Associated Press on Monday that a "medical condition" was to blame for the driver's loss of consciousness.What "kind" of Medical condition?? That may cause said operator to blackout? If thats the case why is this person operating?? |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Jul 20 18:50:58 2009, in response to Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by Railman718 on Mon Jul 20 18:35:55 2009. It's BS. |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by Railman718 on Mon Jul 20 19:22:18 2009, in response to Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by Easy on Mon Jul 20 18:50:58 2009. Good guess on my end as well, but hey its not our decision... |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by RiverLINE3501 on Mon Jul 20 20:44:03 2009, in response to Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by Railman718 on Mon Jul 20 18:35:55 2009. Diabetes. |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by Railman718 on Mon Jul 20 20:51:25 2009, in response to Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by RiverLINE3501 on Mon Jul 20 20:44:03 2009. Diabetes.That gets you looked at reaaallllll close down here.... Yer sugar is high yer restricted.... |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jul 20 21:59:54 2009, in response to Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by Railman718 on Mon Jul 20 20:51:25 2009. High sugar is not going to black you out. LOW SUGAR WILL!The effects of high sugar on diabetics is a long term issue. The effects of low sugar in a diabetic or anybody else for that matter is immediate: blackout is not the worst that can happen. DEAD is also a possibility. ROAR |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by Railman718 on Mon Jul 20 22:16:56 2009, in response to Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jul 20 21:59:54 2009. High sugar is not going to black you out. LOW SUGAR WILL!I didnt say that im just saying what they will do down here yer Sugar is High you are restricted.. |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by arnine on Mon Jul 20 22:23:43 2009, in response to Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by Railman718 on Mon Jul 20 22:16:56 2009. Just an FYI as I am diabetic either high or low blood sugar can cause a blackout. NYCT is more worried about high blood sugar but low blood sugar is the one that sneaks up on ya more with little time to react |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jul 20 22:44:14 2009, in response to Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by arnine on Mon Jul 20 22:23:43 2009. High blood sugar is a problem for NYCT because the medication for it can cause low blood sugar all of a sudden which can cause accidents.In addition, high blood sugar causes many many illnesses that will lead to days off, and increased health insurance costs. ROAR |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by fytton on Tue Jul 21 04:00:39 2009, in response to Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by Easy on Mon Jul 20 18:50:58 2009. It isn't BS; it is a very possible explanation for the crash. But the real question it raises is this: should diabetics be allowed to be T/Os? Obviously there are safety issues on one side, but issues of non-discrimination against those with chronic health conditions on the other sdie of the argument. |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Jul 21 04:31:46 2009, in response to Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by fytton on Tue Jul 21 04:00:39 2009. I think the common good needs to trump the perceived right to employment in a case like this.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 21 05:07:33 2009, in response to Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by fytton on Tue Jul 21 04:00:39 2009. Have to agree with Fred here ... medical conditions are unfortunate, but "fitness for duty" is a whole other issue when public safety is concerned. You don't want dope-smokers at the controls, and you don't want people who can collapse and die there either. From a "chronic health condition" a fair drop would be modified duties where the public is not endangered. There are plenty of non-disgracing duties which can be filled in all sectors where respect for a condition is given without endangerment.But if you're not up to the task, then there are many other things that you can do and that should certainly be available ... |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Jul 21 06:31:56 2009, in response to Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 21 05:07:33 2009. Yep, not everyone can be an astronaut, so ground crew pays the bills, too.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 21 06:38:21 2009, in response to Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by Fred G on Tue Jul 21 06:31:56 2009. Though I don't have any "medical conditions" (though some doubt my sanity) myself, I've seen folks in public safety positions who DID fall "victim" to a "medical condition" get sidelined from their prior position into something MUCH happier for them and their "public" ... I hate to fall back on the tired "handicapable" nonsense but I've seen folks who could no longer do what they were hired to do SHINE in a non-safety related position of what they HAD been doing, and doing FAR better for themselves as a result based on what they learned in doing what they HAD been doing."Medical condition" is NOT necessarily an "end game" ... wish more realized the situation and the opportunities when they can't do what they WERE doing anymore, and the possibilities ahead of them doing something ELSE. Goes for unemployment these days too ... |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by Dave on Tue Jul 21 06:42:51 2009, in response to Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 21 06:38:21 2009. Assuming the condition is permanent. |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 21 07:44:01 2009, in response to Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by Dave on Tue Jul 21 06:42:51 2009. Exactly ... but taking a fall with a medical condition happens. And yeah, physically someone might not be able to do what they did, but that doesn't mean there isn't something more meaningful all around for them to do when they cross that line ... seen a lot of that situation myself over the years ... expertise is what it is, no matter how it's applied. :) |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by arnine on Tue Jul 21 09:07:19 2009, in response to Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 21 05:07:33 2009. I have to agree w/Fred too. I too am diabteic and I would not go for jobs where I know that if something went wrong with my diabetes could cause others to be hurt. I know several diabetics who would shoot me for saying this but I think safety sensitive positions where human lives are at risk should be kept away from folks with chronic illnesses such as diabetes for the safety of the greater good. Now, as mentioned there are other jobs that are not that bad. |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jul 21 13:19:40 2009, in response to Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by fytton on Tue Jul 21 04:00:39 2009. In Canada, diabetics are not allowed to have driver's licenses.Drive a train... I don't think so. ROAR |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jul 21 13:46:21 2009, in response to Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jul 21 13:19:40 2009. In Canada, diabetics are not allowed to have driver's licenses.Not what I see with the obvious googling. I think you mean if you have detached retinas from diabetes. There also seem to be limits on commercial (truck/bus) licenses. |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Jul 21 14:14:47 2009, in response to Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by fytton on Tue Jul 21 04:00:39 2009. It isn't BS...Yes, it appears that I jumped the gun. Evidence supports their contention, although not all evidence (drug test results) is in. |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jul 21 14:27:24 2009, in response to Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by AlM on Tue Jul 21 13:46:21 2009. LION only knows what he heard from a Canadian Physician. If it is in error, then it is wrong.ROAR |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jul 21 14:40:32 2009, in response to Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by fytton on Tue Jul 21 04:00:39 2009. non-discrimination against drivers not physically able to drive safely? I lost my drivings license due to deteriorating (non diabetic but similar to d. retinopathy)over 25 years ago. Driving despite the cutural judgement is NOT a right. If, as in my case, I do not see well enough, I should no drive. |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Jul 24 07:29:06 2009, in response to Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by Dave on Mon Jul 20 18:33:35 2009. I apologize if this was already posted. I did not read all the threads.Here are some very revealing videos , caught with station cameras. WEST PORTAL Crash |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by MGL on Fri Jul 24 18:04:49 2009, in response to Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Jul 24 07:29:06 2009. Thanks |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by Hoghead on Fri Jul 24 22:10:19 2009, in response to Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Jul 24 07:29:06 2009. Anyone seen anything in the news about why the struck train started to pull out of the station, then stopped? |
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Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash |
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Posted by arnine on Sat Jul 25 08:44:30 2009, in response to Re: Union: SF train operator blacked out before crash, posted by Hoghead on Fri Jul 24 22:10:19 2009. It is common practice. The K (the one that was crashed into) had picked up and discharged customers, then pulled off but stopped at the traffic light, and that was when the L crashed into it. This as I said is common practice (had taken many trains through West Portal) also if you look at the crash videos posted int this thread somewhere which was on sfgate.com you can see that too. |
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