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Where is this...74 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 11:43:04 2009 Another "mystery" photo....I have no idea any more than you do.... There's a station sign on the left, but I can't make it out. Again, it's in nycsubway.org's, location unknown page. Unfortunately, this one doesn't even have a date given. I am thinking perhaps the Babylon Branch before rebuilt, but I have no clue.... It's LIRR, but where? 
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by metropod on Mon Jun 8 11:48:58 2009, in response to Where is this...74, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 11:43:04 2009. it looks to me more like the babylon branch during the rebuild. |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 11:58:19 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by metropod on Mon Jun 8 11:48:58 2009. I was thinking the same thing....as looks like costruction on the right of the train, like they are trying to build an enbankment. I can't make out the station sign though on the left. The wires check out....as I know they have those wire towers along the line at least from Amityville to Lindenhurst, probably other locations too. I can't place the building on the right though. |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 11:59:27 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 11:58:19 2009. Actually, that structure on the right "could" be the new enbankment, with the train on the old ROW next to it. It's killing me not being able to read the station sign... |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 12:01:12 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 11:59:27 2009. Also, in the distance, there appears to be another station on the left....with an island platform station being built next to it on the right. I "think" it's the Babylon Branch, but it could also be the mainline where around Floral Park or something near there.... It's "somewhere" where there was a grade crossing elimination project. |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jun 8 12:08:13 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 11:58:19 2009. Is that a low or high platform? |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 12:12:03 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jun 8 12:08:13 2009. It appears to be low. But then again, most were back then. |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jun 8 12:15:18 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 12:12:03 2009. Most of the Babylon surface stations I've seen had high platforms. But these were the latter ones done in the 70's. |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 12:24:44 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jun 8 12:15:18 2009. I dunno, I remember seeing most photos of them with low platforms. |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by Fulton Frank on Mon Jun 8 12:54:28 2009, in response to Where is this...74, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 11:43:04 2009. Let's not forget the famous gauntlet in the Rockville project.... 1950? Second worse wreck in LIRR history. It's obviously not a gauntlet, but I certainly feel it's in that area and era... |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by Qveensboro_Plaza on Mon Jun 8 13:11:35 2009, in response to Where is this...74, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 11:43:04 2009. If memory serves me, the Babylon branch viaduct was built to the north of the existing tracks, which would make this a westbound train. I agree there appears to be a station in the distance, and also, further down, a town water tank. I know that Freeport has such a tank, quite visible from the train, which makes me think this could be Bellmore, with Merrick in the distance, as these two stations are relatively close together.The first letter on the sign looks like a B or R or P. |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 13:15:57 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by Qveensboro_Plaza on Mon Jun 8 13:11:35 2009. Maybe Bellmore. |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 13:23:46 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by Qveensboro_Plaza on Mon Jun 8 13:11:35 2009. You are right about the Freeport tank.I say this scene is at Bellmore....looking towards Merrick Station, the station being built in the background.....followed by that is the Freeport water tank, which is right next to the tracks in Freeport. The sign also does look like it's a B. |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by Fulton Frank on Mon Jun 8 13:27:22 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 13:23:46 2009. Merrick and Bellmore were "raised" in my day.... early mid 70's. There were no MP 54's on the line then. |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 13:32:33 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by Fulton Frank on Mon Jun 8 13:27:22 2009. We could rule out some stations like that. Unfortunately there's no date on the photo, which would help a lot. Lindenhurst, Amityville, and Copaigue were raised in my day....late 70's or early 80's. I think Massapequa Park was also done at that time. Massapequa was older, as was Rockville Center. I don't know when Wantagh, Seaford were done. What about Baldwin? |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by Fulton Frank on Mon Jun 8 13:41:06 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 13:32:33 2009. I started riding in Fall 1972 from Massapequa. In those days I can definitely say: Mass. Pk, Mass, Seaford, Wantaugh were elevated; Bellmore and Merrick wre grade; Freeport, Baldwin, Roc. Cntr, Valley Streem and Rosedale were elevated. Amityville, Copiague, and Lindenhurst were elevated somewhat earlier.... late 60'? |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jun 8 13:43:34 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by Fulton Frank on Mon Jun 8 13:41:06 2009. Those outer stations were done in the early 60's. |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by Fulton Frank on Mon Jun 8 13:47:13 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jun 8 13:43:34 2009. Mmmm, not too sure. I started driving in 1968. I drove and picked up my mom from her factory on Oak Street Copiague and recall the construction..... I would place the window from 1969 to 1972 when I started commuting to NYU and no longer picked her up. |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jun 8 13:54:19 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by Fulton Frank on Mon Jun 8 13:47:13 2009. Babylon was done in 1964.It seems stations were done willy nilly....some outer ones early, some inner ones later. It makes no sense. |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by Fulton Frank on Mon Jun 8 13:57:00 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jun 8 13:54:19 2009. Yup. Babylon was 1964. My eighth grade trip was to DC. It began with a school bus ride to Babylon. We boarded on a temp low plat, but there was construction. |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 14:20:04 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by Fulton Frank on Mon Jun 8 13:47:13 2009. I may be thinking of Massapequa Park. Come to think of it, it was along the Sunrise when we were driving that road, and remember the construction..... The Sunrise doesn't run next to the stations east of Massapequa Park.... |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 14:21:16 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by Fulton Frank on Mon Jun 8 13:41:06 2009. Massapequa Park was done much later than Massapequa. |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 14:22:56 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 14:20:04 2009. Massapequa Park was the last station to be done. If I am not mistaken, it was 1980. |
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Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 14:28:02 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 14:22:56 2009. Here's a site with the dates of the Babylon grade eliminations, as well as some photos. Massapequa Park was the station I remembered being done. http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/crossingeliminations/crossingeliminations.htm Do any of these stations look like the one in the mystery photo? |
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Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jun 8 14:47:21 2009, in response to Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 14:28:02 2009. That would eliminate several stations based on the fact that the MP54's were gone by then. |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jun 8 14:49:38 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 14:21:16 2009. Massapequa was done EARLY, earlier than the surrounding stations on either side. |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by Qveensboro_Plaza on Mon Jun 8 15:06:37 2009, in response to Where is this...74, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 11:43:04 2009. Given the dates listed at trainsarefun, this cannot be Bellmore. Looking at the old station photos there, however, it could very well be Freeport, with Baldwin in the background and the RVC water tower in the distance.Freeport was done in 1960, when the temp stations were still low-level. The temp stations at Merrick were already high level to accomodate the M-1s. The MP54 train set would have been right for that period. |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Jun 8 15:58:58 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by Fulton Frank on Mon Jun 8 13:41:06 2009. Massapequa Park wasn't elevated until 1980. IIRC, it was the last Babylon Branch station to be elevated. |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by VictorM on Mon Jun 8 18:03:16 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jun 8 13:54:19 2009. The reason they did Babylon that far back was because, since it was (and still is) a terminal, the streets were frequently blocked by waiting trains, so there was a lot of community pressure to elevate the tracks. |
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Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by DCmetrogreen on Mon Jun 8 18:12:21 2009, in response to Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jun 8 14:47:21 2009. It has to be Rosedale.Bing Map - Rosedale Note the towers. Also, the date on that page fits. |
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Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by DCmetrogreen on Mon Jun 8 18:14:29 2009, in response to Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74, posted by DCmetrogreen on Mon Jun 8 18:12:21 2009. Or, I could be wrong, It could be Rockville Center. Now I'm not sure. |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by Bob Andersen on Mon Jun 8 19:44:04 2009, in response to Where is this...74, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jun 8 11:43:04 2009. How about Laurelton?
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by Bob Andersen on Mon Jun 8 19:48:35 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by Bob Andersen on Mon Jun 8 19:44:04 2009. If it is Laurelton - which I'm not at all sure of - then that could be Higbie Ave. Station in the distance in the original picture, which was eliminated after the grade crossing elimination. |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Jun 8 20:36:09 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jun 8 13:43:34 2009. Amityville, Copaigue and Lindenhurst were finished in 1973, IIRC. I started riding in 1972, when I moved to Babylon. The shoo-fly tracks were north of original and final lines. |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 9 00:40:23 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by Bob Andersen on Mon Jun 8 19:48:35 2009. The only thing is though that it seems like there is an island platform station being built in the distance.I like the "Freeport' idea, and the sign looks like it could say "Freeport". But I am not sure. |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by Bob Andersen on Tue Jun 9 08:50:31 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 9 00:40:23 2009. Here's a Dave Keller photo from 1968 of Port tower near Freeport. The concrete wall looks the same. |
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Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 9 09:37:02 2009, in response to Re: Where is this...74, posted by Bob Andersen on Tue Jun 9 08:50:31 2009. That's an interesting thought.....also notice how the high tension wire supports also match..... Things that make you say "HMMMMMMMM".I think there is a very high probability it's Freeport. |
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Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jun 9 12:23:37 2009, in response to Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74, posted by DCmetrogreen on Mon Jun 8 18:14:29 2009. A good case for Freeport as well. This one may not be as conclusively solved as the previous two. |
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Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 9 13:16:29 2009, in response to Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jun 9 12:23:37 2009. Yeah, while I think it is Freeport, it can't be confirmed completely like the other two were 100% confirmed, unless some actual photo of Freeport back then comes up. |
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I'm thinking Floral Park (was Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74) |
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Posted by Charles G on Tue Jun 9 15:10:50 2009, in response to Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 9 13:16:29 2009. I don't think it can possibly be Freeport.The train is heading west (the shadows give that away). The next station west of Freeport is Baldwin, which is a mile away -- with 7 road crossings in between. The station in the photo is much closer -- with seemingly no road crossings in between, or perhaps just one. The same problem exists at most Babylon stations as they are too far apart to see the next station west (with the exception of Massapequa to Massapequa Park and Merrick to Bellmore -- both of which were elevated when the M1's were around). My money is on Floral Park -- with the station to the west being the new island platform station at Bellerose. The photo is taken just west of where the Carnation Avenue overpass is today. Go to Google Maps and look at the intersection of Carnation Avenue and Atlantic Avenue in Floral Park. Just west of Carnation, there is a cement retaining wall that is the same height as in the photo (even the same number of horizontal grooves), then there is a high tension line tower (same location as in the photo) and then the cement retaining wall ends (as it does in the photo). When they elevated Floral Park, I'm assuming that they realigned the Hempstead tracks to the south of the new station and the main line tracks to the north and build the elevated station in the middle -- which would explain why there are two tracks and not four in the photo. My guess is that the platform we see is a temporary platform built just for the elevation project. The temporary Hempstead tracks are going right down what is today Atlantic Avenue. CG |
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Re: I'm thinking Floral Park (was Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74) |
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Posted by Bob Andersen on Tue Jun 9 16:02:55 2009, in response to I'm thinking Floral Park (was Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74), posted by Charles G on Tue Jun 9 15:10:50 2009. But the Main line is perfectly straight from Jamaica to Hicksville, while the picture seems to show a curve in the tracks in the distance. |
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Re: I'm thinking Floral Park (was Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74) |
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Posted by Charles G on Tue Jun 9 16:21:45 2009, in response to Re: I'm thinking Floral Park (was Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74), posted by Bob Andersen on Tue Jun 9 16:02:55 2009. That would be the curve of the temporary tracks back into the mainline after passing the construction at Bellerose. |
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Re: I'm thinking Floral Park (was Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74) |
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Posted by Charles G on Tue Jun 9 16:27:26 2009, in response to Re: I'm thinking Floral Park (was Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74), posted by Charles G on Tue Jun 9 16:21:45 2009. If you check out an aerial map of the area, there are 8 high-tension poles between Carnation Avenue and the Bellerose station -- which looks about right in the photo as well. |
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Re: I'm thinking Floral Park (was Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74) |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jun 9 16:36:44 2009, in response to Re: I'm thinking Floral Park (was Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74), posted by Charles G on Tue Jun 9 16:27:26 2009. Good enough for me. I'm 90% sure you're right. |
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Re: I'm thinking Floral Park (was Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74) |
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Posted by Fulton Frank on Tue Jun 9 17:26:52 2009, in response to Re: I'm thinking Floral Park (was Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jun 9 16:36:44 2009. In support of Floral Park might be the home signal reading approach medium. Might that be in the Queens Tower interlocking. |
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Re: I'm thinking Floral Park (was Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 10 07:42:14 2009, in response to I'm thinking Floral Park (was Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74), posted by Charles G on Tue Jun 9 15:10:50 2009. I would agree with you, and am switching a from Freeport towards this a little, but when I look at that wall thing in the mystery photo, and then at google street view, it appears to only have 4 sections of concrete, whereas the mystery photo has 5 sections...but then gain, perhaps one is buried lower?I wish we could read that sign... Google Street View at Carnation and Atlantic |
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Re: I'm thinking Floral Park (was Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74) |
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Posted by Charles G on Wed Jun 10 16:24:15 2009, in response to Re: I'm thinking Floral Park (was Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 10 07:42:14 2009. Good eye on the number of concrete sections. I'm assuming that when they put the street back in and then built up the sidewalk, grass and curb that the bottom line got covered -- but that's just a guess.I'm not high on Freeport for a few reasons -- 1. You can't see Baldwin from Freeport. 2. There would be multiple road crossings between the two stations -- but there appear to be none in this picture. 3. The concrete sections to the west of Freeport are higher -- but don't extend as far west as the one in the mystery photo before they slope down to the ground (go to Sunrise and South Ocean Ave in Freeport for an example). 4. The high tension wires in Freeport are north of the tracks. |
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Re: I'm thinking Floral Park (was Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jun 11 09:14:48 2009, in response to Re: I'm thinking Floral Park (was Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74), posted by Charles G on Wed Jun 10 16:24:15 2009. I agree about the concrete sections... Actually just trying to look for things to "disprove" to get an accurate location....but I think at this point FLoral Park is looking pretty close on. Unfortuantely, I guess at this point, we can only assume, and not say with 100%....It's so funny when there's a sign right in the photo...so close, yet so far, lol.... |
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Calling Wayne-MrSlantR40 Re: I'm thinking Floral Park (was Re: Where is this...74) |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Jun 11 18:48:28 2009, in response to Re: I'm thinking Floral Park (was Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jun 11 09:14:48 2009. I did a little digging and found this post from back in the SubTalk days:Old Subtalk Post in which Wayne has a memory of the Floral Park temporary track (note that the post says there is a single track -- not the two tracks shown here). Hopefully he sees this post and can take a look at the original picture and tell us if it looks like the Floral Park he remembers. CG |
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Re: I'm thinking Floral Park (was Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74) |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Thu Jun 11 18:50:09 2009, in response to Re: I'm thinking Floral Park (was Re: Babylon Grade Crossing Eliminations Re: Where is this...74), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jun 11 09:14:48 2009. Floral Park should have been high platform at the time though.
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