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| (767651) | |
Interesting Method of On Board Fare Collection |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Apr 7 21:57:31 2009 One of my YouTube recommendations randomly gave me this video:It shows basically the procedure of purchasing a "ticket" (simply a ride added to the SUICA card) and then riding one of JR's "Green Cars" (sortof like first class for Japanese commuter rail). Because of the frequent stops I always wondered how they were able to prevent people from sitting in the car without a proper ticket, particularly since fares are collected DC-Metro/PATCO style (your fare is deducted upon exiting based on origin). At about 1:40 to 1:50, the person taking the video taps his wallet to an RF reader above the seat, changing an amber light to green. I'm guessing this deducted the first class ride from the card and simultaneously gives the conductor a clear indication that he is supposed to be sitting there. Something like this would certainly make checking fares on our various commuter rails easier, no? |
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| (767659) | |
Re: Interesting Method of On Board Fare Collection |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Apr 7 22:23:28 2009, in response to Interesting Method of On Board Fare Collection, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Apr 7 21:57:31 2009. That's facinating. Here I thought my idea was so original. I thought that to implement Smartcards on commuter rail here in the states the conductor would have a handheld card reader that would encode the originating station on the card. To me it'd seem to take too long for the C/R to ask everyone their destination and enter it into his or her reader. Thus once the conductor had read their ticket and the passenger had reached their destination they'd tap their card on a reader pad near the door before stepping off the train. The system would then be able to compute the fare and deduct the proper amount. Of course the major problem with this is that the dwell time at busy stations could be greatly increased as passengers fumble for their smartcards. That could be mitigated somewhat in systems with large terminals by simply making any card which doesn't tap out en route simply pay the fare to that terminal station, but would still create problems at popular stations on the return trip.I think I prefer the Japanese method to what I came up with, although I'm not sure I like the purchasing aspect. I've always wanted a farecard I don't have to stop at a machine to fill, or even think about before using the train. A kind of transit ez-pass where I just have to pull out my card onboard the train, get the fare debited, and go on my way. Having to stop at a machine to put a ticket for travel between two specific stations kind of seems to defeat the purpose of having a smartcard. |
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| (767669) | |
Re: Interesting Method of On Board Fare Collection |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 7 22:41:50 2009, in response to Interesting Method of On Board Fare Collection, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Apr 7 21:57:31 2009. What's hard about the present method? |
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| (767673) | |
Re: Interesting Method of On Board Fare Collection |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Apr 7 22:47:46 2009, in response to Re: Interesting Method of On Board Fare Collection, posted by WillD on Tue Apr 7 22:23:28 2009. The SUICA is exactly that for regular fares (and it works on multiple systems). It is capable of holding both a weekly/monthly and stored value, useful since their unlimited ride plans only work between the specific stations (and stops in between) you buy it for.I think the reason the green cars need a special fare is so that you don't accidentally bankrupt your card and are unable to pay the exit fare at your destination. I suspect once you reach the destination you selected for the ride you put on it, the light automatically turns back to amber. I did realize though that this system has a drawback; you cannot switch seats on your own (for example if there is only one other person left in the entire car, and you happened to sit next to him). I would guess (since it is first class) the conductor (attendant?) can accommodate such situations manually. |
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| (767684) | |
Re: Interesting Method of On Board Fare Collection |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Apr 7 23:16:28 2009, in response to Re: Interesting Method of On Board Fare Collection, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 7 22:41:50 2009. The fact that half the time people don't get it collected because the conductor is too bogged down?Especially for short distance / intermediate riders. Personal experience: -On SEPTA, riders in the first car of an inbound R3 I took didn't get their fares collected until after I had gotten off (Media->Clifton-Aldan). Unfortunately, I was in the second car. -On almost all city bound trips I take from Forest Hills, I don't get it collected. As soon as you get on and see no seat checks, simply throw off your jacket and look half asleep, and only the conductors with good memories know. If there are still seat checks (happens so rarely I never think of this in time) you can probably just sit at one of them, since someone had to have gotten off at FH or KG. -On various eastbound intermediate LIRR runs (Mineola to... anywhere east) there's rarely seat checks, so just sit down (or stand at a door) and space out at the window. Easy peasy. -My friend rides from New Rochelle to Stamford every day, with a 10 trip, and he claims on Stamford bound trips he almost never gets it punched. I don't think they intended a 25% discount on top of the 15% discount the ticket already provides. -On NJT, a random girl and I both had a similar idea, which was unexpected since we sat across from each other. I had a ticket to Newark, she had a pass to Newark. After the conductor collected our checks (they tear them for Newark), he also collected the untorn ones for the NYP crowd. I didn't feel like changing at Newark, and had a NWK->NYP ticket in my wallet anyway, so I figured I'd stick around. The conductor came by, and remembered us (drat), so I handed over my ticket. She however (didn't lie!) said "I've been on since Princeton". Conductor moves on. Even the ones with good memories can be socially engineered out of a ride. But a green light does not lie. Well it can with our track record of keeping next stop announcement systems correct, but with a well programmed system it wouldn't. |
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| (767702) | |
Re: Interesting Method of On Board Fare Collection |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Tue Apr 7 23:38:22 2009, in response to Re: Interesting Method of On Board Fare Collection, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Apr 7 23:16:28 2009. I remember one time I was on the LIRR, and rode from Woodside to Broadway without a single ticket check.Then there was the one time I rode from Hicksville to Jamaica without a ticket check. Strange thing was that the train was scheduled to make stops at Mineola, Hillside, Jamaica, and Woodside, and the doors in my car didn't open for either of the first two, despite the fact the car was at the platform for both. I had a Hicksville-Woodside ticket, and made the assumption that if the train doors wouldn't open at Mineola of all big places, they probably wouldn't open at Woodside. Doors opened at Jamaica, where I got off the train and took the subway the rest of the way. |
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| (767787) | |
Re: Interesting Method of On Board Fare Collection |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Wed Apr 8 08:18:24 2009, in response to Re: Interesting Method of On Board Fare Collection, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Apr 7 22:47:46 2009. I did realize though that this system has a drawback; you cannot switch seats on your own (for example if there is only one other person left in the entire car, and you happened to sit next to him). I would guess (since it is first class) the conductor (attendant?) can accommodate such situations manually.Just tap your card to make the light amber and move to the seat you want to sit and tap again and the light above you will become green. I didn't like how you have to take out your Suica from your pass holder when you pay for your Green fare. That should have been made tappable too. The only other cases where you need to insert your Suica into a machine are when you add value, buy a paper ticket with it or get a paper payment history. |
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| (768115) | |
Re: Interesting Method of On Board Fare Collection |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Thu Apr 9 08:27:06 2009, in response to Re: Interesting Method of On Board Fare Collection, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Apr 7 22:47:46 2009. One more thing.I think the reason the green cars need a special fare is so that you don't accidentally bankrupt your card and are unable to pay the exit fare at your destination. There are machines to add value to your Suica before exiting at stations that accept them. |
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