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| MBTA Breda Type 8s Update (72944) | |
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| (73089) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Tue Apr 12 11:43:00 2005, in response to MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Apr 12 00:26:43 2005. As reported elsewhere, the MBTA killed the contract with Breda. The only Type 8's in service are the few already delivered.The project is a total failure. |
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| (73180) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Apr 12 16:17:46 2005, in response to MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Apr 12 00:26:43 2005. All 100 of them? That's how many Bredas there are supposed to be. A few months ago (December), someone posted at railroad.net that there were 37 cars on the property. They couldn't have gotten up to 100 cars that fast. I read a Boston Globe article that stated that the T was only going to accept 47 cars out of the order and cancel the rest because they have been such a maintenance headache - from derailments to brake problems to stuck doors to computer freeze-ups. They make the Bombardier R142s look trouble-free by comparison.Also the Bredas have been kept exclusively on the B branch. They last ran on the C in summer 2004 and should have been kept there. They run either in solid trains or with the modified Type 7 cars. The modified Type 7s will occasionally show up without Type 8s on the C and D branches. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (73186) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Apr 12 16:24:23 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by Dan Lawrence on Tue Apr 12 11:43:00 2005. I read the MBTA was looking for ways to kill the contract back in December. I didn't know if they had finally done it. Good riddance - the Bredas are garbage. Unfortunately Green Line riders on Commonwealth Avenue, like me, are stuck with them, at least for now. |
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| (73239) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by ALSTOM R160A on Tue Apr 12 18:16:39 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by Dan Lawrence on Tue Apr 12 11:43:00 2005. As reported elsewhere, the MBTA killed the contract with Breda. The only Type 8's in service are the few already delivered.Few? You call 47 cars few? That's close to half the order (100 cars) It's really too bad since they're having a lot of problems with the Boeing-Vertol LRV's. Now, I'm guessing that they'll go to a trusted manufacturer, probably Kinki-Sharyo for new cars. |
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| (73240) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by ALSTOM R160A on Tue Apr 12 18:18:06 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Apr 12 16:17:46 2005. Of course not. He means all 47 of them. Also, they are not exclusive to the B branch. I've seen them on the E branch lots of times, as well as on other branches. I don't know if they're being run on the D branch right now. |
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| (73282) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Tue Apr 12 19:11:19 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by ALSTOM R160A on Tue Apr 12 18:18:06 2005. Also, they are not exclusive to the B branch. I've seen them on the E branch lots of times, as well as on other branches. I don't know if they're being run on the D branch right now.At the time of this posting, they are exclusive to the B branch. Here's an unofficial list of what branches have which cars: B - Type 7, Modified Type 7, Type 8 C - Boeing LRV, Type 7, Modified Type 7 (rare) D - Type 7, Modified Type 7 (rare) E - Type 7, Modified Type 7 (rare) |
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| (73301) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Tue Apr 12 19:33:10 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by The Port of Authority on Tue Apr 12 19:11:19 2005. Just for the record, Type 7's that are modifed to MU with Type 8's now cannot MU with unmodifed Type 7's.Another sign of Breda's incompetance. |
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| (73306) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by ALSTOM R160A on Tue Apr 12 19:44:08 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by Dan Lawrence on Tue Apr 12 19:33:10 2005. That's ridiculous. |
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| (73407) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Apr 12 22:52:41 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by ALSTOM R160A on Tue Apr 12 18:18:06 2005. The Type 8s are not being run in passenger service on the D branch because the T is concerned that they will de-rail on the high-speed Riverside branch tracks. Of course they use those tracks in order to get to from the delivery point at Riverside Yard to Reservoir Car House, but that is usually after the T is shut down. |
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| (73408) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Apr 12 22:58:56 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by ALSTOM R160A on Tue Apr 12 18:16:39 2005. 47 cars is definitely not few, but it's small enough for these cars to be orphans - and how much help can they really count on from Breda after all of this.I hope they do go Kinki-Sharyo or possibly Bombardier, Kawasaki, Siemens or Alstom for new LRVs. |
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| (73409) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by ALSTOM R160A on Tue Apr 12 23:01:58 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Apr 12 22:58:56 2005. NO! Stay away from Bombardier! LOL |
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| (73410) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Apr 12 23:08:30 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by The Port of Authority on Tue Apr 12 19:11:19 2005. The D branch also sees Boeing LRVs during rush hours. I've also seen modified Type 7s on the C branch fairly often, even during rush hours. I think it's stupid that the T runs the Type 8s only on the heavily-used B branch. The C is not as crowded as the B and it needs fewer cars to cover its service. With 47 Type 8s, I would think the T has enough cars to cover base service on the whole C branch. The Boeing LRVs are mostly on the C branch - shouldn't their replacements, the Bredas, also be on the C? |
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| (73422) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Tue Apr 12 23:22:48 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Apr 12 22:58:56 2005. They'll probably go with Kinki-Sharyo, given that KS is a reliable light-rail manufacturer and produced the reliable Type 7s. |
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| (73506) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Apr 13 08:45:47 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by ALSTOM R160A on Tue Apr 12 19:44:08 2005. That's Breda!! |
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| (73533) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by vengence on Wed Apr 13 11:05:38 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by Dan Lawrence on Tue Apr 12 19:33:10 2005. I don't understand how they can build a subway car without much problems..but can't build LRTS right...MUNI has the same problems with their new LRTS for the Market st subway.. But WWashingtom Metro/Atlanta Metro had little problems with their rail cars..... WHATS going on here? |
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| (73580) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Wed Apr 13 13:16:56 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by vengence on Wed Apr 13 11:05:38 2005. I think the LRVs that Breda built for MUNI had all their bugs ironed out and are running well. Unless I'm mistaken. |
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| (73631) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Apr 13 15:19:26 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Apr 12 23:08:30 2005. A TA does not have to replace its cars like that. In New York, the 7 did not receive any R142s or R142As as the Redbirds were retired.It is my understanding that only the B and C lines have had adjustments made to the track so the Bredas can run there. Do you have any ideas about my other Boston related post about which lines serve North Station? |
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| (73703) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by 5119 on Wed Apr 13 16:54:11 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by The Port of Authority on Tue Apr 12 23:22:48 2005. What exactly was the problem with the Breda's. They seem to be working well in Cleveland. And the Breda cars on the DC Metro seem to also be holding up well. |
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| (73704) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by ALSTOM R160A on Wed Apr 13 16:56:18 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by 5119 on Wed Apr 13 16:54:11 2005. Yeah, Breda did a good job with the WMATA 2000, 3000, and 4000's. ALSTOM also did an amazing job on the 2000 series rehabs. |
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| (73708) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Wed Apr 13 16:59:21 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Apr 13 15:19:26 2005. That is true. The 4 and 6 lines are running with R142s and R142A's even though they were served by R62's or R62A's. But the MTA had valid concerns about the new-tech cars crapping out on the 7 and screwing up the whole 7 line (the Bombardier cars were crapping out on the 2 a lot when they first came). The 7 is a self-contained line that doesn't share tracks with any other line, so if a train dies below Queensboro Plaza, the whole line is messed up. When the R142/R142A's were first being tested, it made sense to put them on the mainline IRT, where there is the flexiblity of rerouting trains around a disabled train. Also, it is easier to make 11-car trains with R62A's than it is with the R142/R142A's because there are still enough single R62As to do that.The MBTA on the other hand, doesn't have that excuse. They can and did run the Type 8 cars on the C line. I've ridden the T8's on both the B and C - they are much better suited for the C branch. The C is most crowded during rush hours, but even then it's still less crowded than the B. The B is crowded all the time due to the large student population that lives near the line. The Bredas do not handle the crowds well at all. One of the biggest problems is that when the BU kids board the cars, they stay in the low floor area and most of them don't bother moving futher in. That not only makes the low-floor area more crowded, it makes it extremely difficult for other people in the high-floor section to get off. The C doesn't have as high a concentration of students or two major universities along its route and therefore tends to be much less crowded outside of rush hours. |
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| (73710) | |
North Station (Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update) |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Wed Apr 13 17:04:05 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Apr 13 15:19:26 2005. When did you post about what lines serve North Station?North Station is served by the Orange and the C and E branches of the Green Line. It's also served by the Rockport, Newburyport, Haverhill, Lowell and Fitchburg Commuter Rail lines and Amtrak's Downeaster service. |
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| (73719) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Apr 13 17:19:36 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Wed Apr 13 16:59:21 2005. The C is the busiest of the four branches? I would have guessed it is the least utilized. |
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| (73720) | |
Re: North Station (Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update) |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Apr 13 17:21:36 2005, in response to North Station (Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update), posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Wed Apr 13 17:04:05 2005. http://subchat.com/read.asp?Id=72942 |
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| (73728) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Wed Apr 13 17:33:03 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Apr 13 17:19:36 2005. No - it is the least utilized. But the C is defintely not the busiest Green Line branch. That's why I think the C should be the line with the Bredas. |
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| (73777) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Wed Apr 13 19:04:49 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Apr 13 15:19:26 2005. I found your other Boston-related post. I believe the reason the B and C branches were switched is because the B branch got so messed up with the combination of frequent headways, unreliable Type 8 cars that can't handle huge crowds and the less-than-adequate turnback facilities outside of North Station.The T first began running the B branch to North Station when the new station opened in June of 2004. At the same time, Lechmere and Science Park closed. I guess the T felt the D branch was too long and so they cut it back to Government Center and sent the B to North Station in its place. Unfortunately, that and the E branch proved to be too much for the crossover north of the station to handle. During rush hours, a lot of B cars were being turned at Govt Ctr, simply because the North Station crossover couldn't handle so much traffic. That's probably why the C was sent there in its place. And they seem to be able to send all (or most) C cars to North Station, so I think the C and E provide good service to North Station and Haymarket. I think it should stay that way once Lechmere and Science Park re-open. |
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| (73795) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Wed Apr 13 19:47:57 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by 5119 on Wed Apr 13 16:54:11 2005. What exactly was the problem with the Breda's.The MBTA has had numerous problems with the Breda Type 8 LRVs ever since they were delivered, the most common of which is chronic derailment. I hope these problems persist for a while. I'm not ready to say goodbye to the Boeing LRVs. |
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| (76182) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Apr 20 11:36:10 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Wed Apr 13 13:16:56 2005. A lot of the bugs were exterinated by MUNI's taleted people, who worked the cars into optimal performance. Cleveland's RTA did the same thing to their Breda fleet.The MBTA's people worked on the Type 8's but the bugs bred faster. MBTA and Breda began the Blame Game. Argue enough, you want out. LRV's are just not Breda's thing. Both the MUNI cars and the Type 8's were beaten with the biggest ugly stick you can find. The USLRV design Boeings actually looked better, blunt ends and all. |
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| (76393) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Wed Apr 20 18:48:14 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Apr 20 11:36:10 2005. The USLRV design Boeings actually looked better, blunt ends and all.The Boeings are the nicest-looking LRVs I've ever seen. |
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| (76395) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Wed Apr 20 19:01:19 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Apr 12 22:58:56 2005. Have Budd get back in business and give the remaining 53 cars to them. |
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| (76824) | |
Budd(Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update) |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Thu Apr 21 15:53:28 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by R42 4787 on Wed Apr 20 19:01:19 2005. I don't think Budd ever built streetcars. Only subway/el and mainline RR cars. |
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| (76835) | |
Re: Budd(Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update) |
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Posted by Steve Hoskins on Thu Apr 21 16:26:47 2005, in response to Budd(Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update), posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Thu Apr 21 15:53:28 2005. Budd did build a variety of other stuff...most of which we wouldn't even give thought to, believe it or not.They designed and made truck/bus wheels, believe it or not. The ones that are similar to Alco shiny aluminum/stainless steel ones, but they were NOT stainless steel...they did away with the "split rim" design which was dangerous as hell to a tire maintainer (though, for some odd reason, you still see those things around). They also made truck trailers, but not in mass quantities. You hardly ever see them around any more (because it has been so long since they made them; it was in the 1950's). |
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| (76855) | |
Re: Budd(Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update) |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Apr 21 17:25:34 2005, in response to Re: Budd(Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update), posted by Steve Hoskins on Thu Apr 21 16:26:47 2005. "They also made truck trailers, but not in mass quantities. You hardly ever see them around any more (because it has been so long since they made them; it was in the 1950's)."Correction on that 1950 date, it was more like late 70's , early to mid-80's. They bought the place from Gindy Trailers. I remember because I worked for them at that time. They sold out to Thayco Trailer, who ran the business down and out of business in 1987. |
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| (76866) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by willD on Thu Apr 21 18:10:47 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by ALSTOM R160A on Tue Apr 12 23:01:58 2005. Why not Bombardier? Their LRVs have been performing well in Minneapolis on the Hiawatha LRT. |
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| (76869) | |
Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update |
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Posted by ALSTOM R160A on Thu Apr 21 18:14:33 2005, in response to Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update, posted by willD on Thu Apr 21 18:10:47 2005. Bombardier has been having business troubles as of late (first losing the PATH order which they expected to win, and now the ACELA problems, on top of other things), I wouldn't trust them. |
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| (76877) | |
Re: Budd(Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update) |
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Posted by R42 4787 on Thu Apr 21 18:41:42 2005, in response to Re: Budd(Re: MBTA Breda Type 8s Update), posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Apr 21 17:25:34 2005. I did see a Budd trailer a year or two ago (2003?). It was on Interstate 287 in NJ on the way to school. It had the Budd logo on a metal build plate. |
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