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Speed Limits

Posted by Maserati7200 on Sun Oct 5 17:15:42 2008

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Can Someone Tell me what the speed limits are for the Culver Express (elevated portion), West End Express, Jamiaca Express (J train), Brighton Express, and Astoria Express? Basically all the BMT elevated express tracks.

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(691133)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Oct 5 17:17:04 2008, in response to Speed Limits, posted by Maserati7200 on Sun Oct 5 17:15:42 2008.

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There is no one speed limit - each segment of trackage has some speed limit, which is posted.

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(691135)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by Maserati7200 on Sun Oct 5 17:18:10 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Oct 5 17:17:04 2008.

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So give me a range, like highest ones and lowest ones

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(691136)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Oct 5 17:26:59 2008, in response to Speed Limits, posted by Maserati7200 on Sun Oct 5 17:15:42 2008.

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There is no speed limit, really. In fact, before the 90s, most subway trains didn't have speedometers. PATH trains still don't even have speedometers, for example.

If you have a straight track, with green signals, the train will most likely hit its top speed, about 40 MPH or so. It will slow down if there is a yellow signal ahead, however, wether due to a train ahead, or a timed signal, or a switch ahead.

Around curves, and down hills, there are timed signals, which limit how fats the train goes, because if the train runs by it, it will get "tripped" by a stop-arm, and its emergency brakes will engage.

However, on curved track with no timers, it is the motorman's responsibility to keep the train on the tracks, and there usually IS a posted "speed limit." There could also be restrictions on straight tracks if there is construction, or workers ahead, or if there is a low speed order(due to issues with track, or something).

But as for the BMT elevated, there most likely is a posted "speed limit" of 35 MPH, or so, but most motormen just keep the cntroller at max until it is time to slow down for a station, or signal.

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(691168)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Oct 5 19:25:00 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Oct 5 17:26:59 2008.

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Trains can hit 50-60 depending (not often). The run through the 60th St tunnel is very fast.

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(691171)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Oct 5 19:36:50 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Oct 5 19:25:00 2008.

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But I was talking about elevated sections. I think 40 is the max hit on those, since there aren't any huge grades, and if there are, timers mess it up.

But it is true, in the TUBES, you can hit 50+MPH.

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(691199)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by Train Dude on Sun Oct 5 20:36:49 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Oct 5 19:36:50 2008.

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While you are explaining the speed limits, why don;t you explain how the fratostatic yaw dampers affect speed? It's rare when someone with your insight lends his expertise here.

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(691206)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Oct 5 20:59:18 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by Train Dude on Sun Oct 5 20:36:49 2008.

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No such thing. And that little game of yours made me lose trust, for my original vision of railcars was right.

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(691212)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 21:09:47 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Oct 5 17:26:59 2008.

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Now where in the world did you get all that gobbledegook? If the TA wants to have a reduced speed in a specific area, they'll post a speed limit sign, which in itself is treated as a signal as per the rule book. If there is no speed limit posted, then the sky is the limit...except in river tubes where the speed is automatically limited at 35 mph unless otherwise posted in the field.

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(691222)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Oct 5 21:24:10 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 21:09:47 2008.

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What 35 MPH limit? Trains always go fatser than that in THE TUBES.

And when I say there is no limit, that means that the limit is set by the vehicle itself.

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(691225)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 21:29:15 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Oct 5 21:24:10 2008.

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What 35 MPH limit? Trains always go fatser than that in THE TUBES.

In a river tube that does not have any speed limit signs posted, the speed limit as per the NYCTA Rules and Regulations is 35 mph.

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(691228)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by Alex L. on Sun Oct 5 21:30:53 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 21:09:47 2008.

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except in river tubes where the speed is automatically limited at 35 mph unless otherwise posted in the field.

Please tell me where this comes from. I've had lots of people say it, but no one has yet been able to show me this in writing.

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(691231)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by Train Dude on Sun Oct 5 21:37:01 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Oct 5 20:59:18 2008.

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Yeah and making a fool out of you was just a waste of my time. You seem to do it regularly without my help.

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(691232)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Oct 5 21:39:27 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 21:29:15 2008.

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That's certainly not the case in the 60 St tube, nor for that matter inder Northern Blvd. The 63rd st Connector slowed things down a little bit because of the 41 Av ramps but that ride exceeds 35 at times.

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(691236)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Oct 5 21:45:49 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Oct 5 21:39:27 2008.

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You and K-car seem to be missing what Zman emphasized, which should be emphasized again:

In a river tube that does not have any speed limit signs posted, the speed limit as per the NYCTA Rules and Regulations is 35 mph.

That is a default rule; in the event of a posted limit in a river tunnel, trains follow the posted limit.



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(691237)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Oct 5 21:46:39 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Oct 5 21:45:49 2008.

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OK. Does the 60 st tube have a sign posted?

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(691241)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by (3) Livonia Ave. Local on Sun Oct 5 21:48:57 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Oct 5 21:46:39 2008.

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From my recollections, I believe there is a GT sign that says 50 for clearing the timers. But I don't remember a Speed Limit sign being there, but this was a long time ago, when the 32s still ran on the (N).

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(691242)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 21:49:46 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by Alex L. on Sun Oct 5 21:30:53 2008.

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I'm having difficulty trying to find it myself via the new rule numbers, but the old rule number was 36(i).

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(691245)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 21:51:52 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by (3) Livonia Ave. Local on Sun Oct 5 21:48:57 2008.

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Exactly, 60th St has a GT45 southbound and a GT50 northbound. These are the new speed limits in these tubes.

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(691247)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Oct 5 21:53:34 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 21:51:52 2008.

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yet I was on trains that hit 55+ going into manhattan. R-32 R trains, in fact.

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(691249)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Oct 5 21:54:40 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Oct 5 21:45:49 2008.

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I think the A/C train "cranberry street tubes"(?) have GT- 30 MPH or so, and the trains usually hit 40+MPH there.

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(691251)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Oct 5 21:55:39 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Oct 5 21:46:39 2008.

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As of a few weeks ago, at least, definitely.

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(691255)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Oct 5 21:57:20 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 21:51:52 2008.

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New? Meaning this was done very recently? Thank you.

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(691257)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Sun Oct 5 21:58:38 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 21:09:47 2008.

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And of course one can count on the Z Man to go as slow as ever, well below speed limits!! :-D lol j/k

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(691261)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Oct 5 22:02:24 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 21:09:47 2008.

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If there is no speed limit posted, then the sky is the limit...

I wonder how that works in practice, though - I mean, wouldn't the train just be governed by the last speed limit sign in effect that it encountered?

OK, so with rudimentary figures:

----20------GT 15--------20---------------------------------------------
----A--------B-----------C------------------------D-------------E-------

At points A, B, and C the applicable speed limits are the ones posted, but what about at points D and E. Say that point D is 3 miles from point C where the 20 mph limit is posted - is the speed limit at point D then 20 mph? And say that point E is another 2 miles further off (5 miles from point C) - is the speed limit at point E then also 20 mph?

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(691262)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 22:04:11 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Oct 5 21:57:20 2008.

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Actually, no. I shouldn't have used the word "new." These GT time signs have been in place for years, but they do supercede the written rule in regards to tube speed limits.

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(691264)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by Westcode44 on Sun Oct 5 22:05:10 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 21:49:46 2008.

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That rule no longer exsists. It's whatever the train can do unless Grade Time is in effect.

WE-44

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(691265)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 22:05:10 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Sun Oct 5 21:58:38 2008.

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Well, you sure ain't going much faster than the limit on MY train! Lol.

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(691269)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 22:08:24 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Oct 5 22:02:24 2008.

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The speed limit would remain at 20 mph until either:

a) A new speed limit sign is encountered which supercedes the prior speed limit sign

b) A green resume (R) sign is encountered

c) The train enters a station. The prior speed restriction is nullified once the train leaves that station unless an additional speed sign is posted at the leaving end. This rule is not in effect for express trains passing by local stations.

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(691270)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 22:09:37 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by Westcode44 on Sun Oct 5 22:05:10 2008.

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I've seen it written in recent bulletins, so I can assure you sir that this rule is still in effect.

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(691272)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by Alex L. on Sun Oct 5 22:11:53 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 21:49:46 2008.

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I'm looking at the Rule Book from my C/R Induction (12/27/97) and Rule 36 (Bulletin Boards) only goes to paragraph (g). How old is your old rule?

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(691276)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Oct 5 22:13:53 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 22:08:24 2008.

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So if there is no speed limit sign after the station, then the limit is how fast the vehicle can go, correct? And in most cases, you top out at 30 or so MPH on local station runs.

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(691278)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by Westcode44 on Sun Oct 5 22:14:28 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 22:09:37 2008.

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I seriously doubt it (RTO Bulletin)... This rule was prior to 1992 I assure you.

WE-44

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(691280)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 22:15:40 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by Westcode44 on Sun Oct 5 22:14:28 2008.

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Give me a couple days and I'll find the bulletin out in the field and let you know the number.

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(691284)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 22:17:27 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by Alex L. on Sun Oct 5 22:11:53 2008.

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I've seen it in a recent bulletin (within the last 12 months or so.) I'll try to find the bulletin out in the field in the next couple of days.

As far as the rule that I had found, it was pre-1997.

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(691286)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Oct 5 22:17:42 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 22:08:24 2008.

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Thanks for your response....and sorry to make this seem like an exam question!

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(691288)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 22:18:05 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sun Oct 5 22:13:53 2008.

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Right.

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(691290)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by Westcode44 on Sun Oct 5 22:18:47 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 22:15:40 2008.

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Yes do that,- but be sure your not confusing it with the Vacuum Train or Miscellanious Work Motors...

WE-44

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(691296)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 22:22:20 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by Westcode44 on Sun Oct 5 22:18:47 2008.

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No, I'm quite sure. The vacuum train has a max of 39 mph before the audible warning is sounded and will zap out at 41, so the VakTrak has a per rule max of 35 mph. Diesels have a max of 25 on straight rail and 15 on curves. I know that you know all this, but I'm just trying to prove to you that I'm not confusing the bunch.

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(691309)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by BLE-NIMX on Sun Oct 5 22:40:48 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 22:17:27 2008.

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It did exist in the leather bound rulebook issued to me in 1986 that all trains were limited to no more than 35 MPH except when other wise posted in the tubes. All I found was my R10 and up manual so I don't have it to show yet

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(691383)

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Re: Speed Limits

Posted by 5119 on Mon Oct 6 03:42:12 2008, in response to Re: Speed Limits, posted by Zman179 on Sun Oct 5 22:04:11 2008.

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Back in 1962, I used to be the "the second Motorman" on the Lo-V's which then ran on the Jerome Avenue Line. Leaving Bowling Green and running in the tube, I saw the speed posted as 36 Miles per hour.

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