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| 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's (670451) | |
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| (670451) | |
3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by brooklyn76 on Wed Aug 20 23:47:01 2008 |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by irt1958 on Thu Aug 21 00:24:02 2008, in response to 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by brooklyn76 on Wed Aug 20 23:47:01 2008. Beautiful! I rode the 3rd Ave El for the first time, back in 1966, when the remnant's of the IRT's Lo V mainline fleet took over from the old Van Dorn gang. Most of the motors, in '66, were the World's Fair Lo Vs, Until then, I haven't seen them since they ran in rush hour only service on the 7th Ave Exp. |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by irt1958 on Thu Aug 21 00:32:23 2008, in response to 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by brooklyn76 on Wed Aug 20 23:47:01 2008. BTW, do you notice something unusual at 1:52? |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by 5119 on Thu Aug 21 02:06:34 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by irt1958 on Thu Aug 21 00:24:02 2008. Had a few 1925 Standard bodied Steinways too,like 5633, 5641, and 2 of my favorite Lo-V trailers, 4902 (whsich has been refurbished and can be seen at the Transit Museum) and 5333. |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Aug 21 04:04:58 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by 5119 on Thu Aug 21 02:06:34 2008. The first steel IRT cars to be assigned to the 3 Av El were the standard body Steinways which were replaced by the WF cars in the mid 1960s in consists with 4 WFs with a LO-V trailer in the middle, the only instance of trailers operating in Steinway trains. |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by 5119 on Thu Aug 21 06:34:29 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by randyo on Thu Aug 21 04:04:58 2008. There were, however, a couple of 1925 Standard Bodied Steinways which ran until the fall of 1969, when the R 12's arrived: 5641: I remember this one because 2 of it's doors wouldn't open. That was in September of 1969. The other one was 5633: i use to railfan this one all the time, from 169th street to 149th street, from 1965-69.They would run together, with 4902 in the middle and 2 World's Fair cars at the end. However, most of the consists were 4 World's Fair cars with Lo-V trailer in the middle |
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| (670562) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by Fulton Frank on Thu Aug 21 07:54:55 2008, in response to 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by brooklyn76 on Wed Aug 20 23:47:01 2008. I've seen this film many times now. It's one of the best art-films regarding trains I have seen. I watch it ofetn. |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by Fulton Frank on Thu Aug 21 07:55:55 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by irt1958 on Thu Aug 21 00:32:23 2008. at 1:52 he goes by a signal. It's has already fallen to red, but I don't notice anything special. Do tell! |
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| (670565) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by irt1958 on Thu Aug 21 08:03:34 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by Fulton Frank on Thu Aug 21 07:55:55 2008. It's special because you don't see it anymore. Red is only a clue. |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by irt1958 on Thu Aug 21 08:09:59 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by 5119 on Thu Aug 21 06:34:29 2008. 1969 was a watershed year for the oldest of the pre-unis. |
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| (670568) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by irt1958 on Thu Aug 21 08:17:04 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by 5119 on Thu Aug 21 02:06:34 2008. I remember the Steinways, although at the time I thought they were the standard geared mainline Lo Vs, that were the typical Lo Vs. They were mixed in with the WFs, just like on the Brooklyn locals of the late 50's. They did accelerate kinda slow though, even for a Lo V. |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by Fulton Frank on Thu Aug 21 08:54:48 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by irt1958 on Thu Aug 21 08:03:34 2008. YOu are peeking my interest, irt. The number plate is white, so it's probably not one f the original irt type signals. I can only see one head, and on that head I see only 2 lenses.... |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by Dave on Thu Aug 21 09:35:26 2008, in response to 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by brooklyn76 on Wed Aug 20 23:47:01 2008. This video gets posted here about every other month. |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by irt1958 on Thu Aug 21 17:39:00 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by Fulton Frank on Thu Aug 21 08:54:48 2008. Actually you already know this. lol Back in 1958, someone looking at a TA signal handbook (in the IRT section) would be surprised looking at it's most recent edition today. Look at the dwarf again, and remember, red is the key. Give up? |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Thu Aug 21 18:07:36 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by Dave on Thu Aug 21 09:35:26 2008. Only Brian is allowed to mention reposts on SubChat. |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by BMTLines on Thu Aug 21 18:25:23 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by Dave on Thu Aug 21 09:35:26 2008. That's because it has gone into reruns... |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by RedbirdR33 on Thu Aug 21 20:04:58 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by 5119 on Thu Aug 21 06:34:29 2008. I was fortunate enough to ride the el on October 18, 1969 while I was home on leave from the Air Force. Here's the consists of the last three trains of old cars.November 3, 1969 – This is the last day of operation of pre-WWII cars on the IRT #8 3rd Avenue El in The Bronx. The last train made one trip in the AM rush. (N) Steinway Motor Car 5641 (ACF-1925) World’s Fair-Steinway Motor Car 5670 (St Louis-1938) Low-Voltage Trailer Car 5353 (Pullman-1922) Steinway Motor Car 5636 (ACF-1925) World’s Fair-Steinway Motor Car 5676 (St Louis-1938) .This train and two others were in service on October 18,1969. No 1 World’s Fair-Steinway Motor Car 5679 (St Louis-1938) World’s Fair-Steinway Motor Car 5684 (St Louis-1938) Low-Voltage Trailer Car 5340 (Pullman-1922) World’s Fair-Steinway Motor Car 5658 (St Louis-1938) Low-Voltage Motor Car 5466 (ACF -1924) No 2 World’s Fair-Steinway Motor Car 5669 (St Louis-1938) Low-Voltage Motor Car 5483 (ACF –1924) Low-Voltage Trailer Car 5356 (Pullman-1922) World’s Fair-Steinway Motor Car 5666 (St Louis-1938) World’s Fair-Steinway Motor Car 5655 (St Louis-1938) Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Aug 21 20:09:04 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by RedbirdR33 on Thu Aug 21 20:04:58 2008. The book Gotham Turnstiles features several photos of Lo-Vs on the el in the late 60s. 5674, whose number was used in The Incident, appears in one or two pics. |
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| (670898) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Aug 21 21:12:21 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by Fulton Frank on Thu Aug 21 07:54:55 2008. I've seen this film many times now. It's one of the best art-films regarding trains I have seen. I watch it ofetn.I remember a black and white print of this being shown in the R-42 movie theatre at the Tramsit Museum during the brief layover for the Nostalgia Special (1976-80). The MUDC's.......... not one was saved, all were scrapped. Bill "Newkirk" |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Aug 21 21:17:07 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Aug 21 21:12:21 2008. That's unfortunate. Its too bad that the museum mentality wasn't in existence in 1955 with the same intensity that it had in recent years. Think of all the other equipment that could also have been preseved such as composites, C types, the BMT Zephyr and Bluebird, and a Multi. |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by Fulton Frank on Thu Aug 21 23:09:09 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by irt1958 on Thu Aug 21 17:39:00 2008. IRT, I wnet to the best high quality monitor at our college... all could see is an upper head with just 2 lenses. Is that the dwarf signal you're referring to? It must be since all other signal heads have three lenses. Why would ther be a dwarf signal there? It's open road, no? It's not an interlocking... It's not a reverse move is it. Yes, IRT, give up.. |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri Aug 22 01:25:26 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by Dave on Thu Aug 21 09:35:26 2008. This video gets posted here about every other month.It's a classic and a favorite for railfans and city historians. I saw it for the first time a few months back here on SubChat. |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Fri Aug 22 02:48:04 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by Dave on Thu Aug 21 09:35:26 2008. I've never seen this particular video. |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Fri Aug 22 02:48:45 2008, in response to 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by brooklyn76 on Wed Aug 20 23:47:01 2008. TWENTY-FIVE STARS |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by 5119 on Fri Aug 22 03:13:47 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by randyo on Thu Aug 21 21:17:07 2008. Not to mention seom Gibbs cars, which could've been part of the initial run on 10/27/04. |
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| (671038) | |
VERY HIGH quality version! (Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 22 03:25:22 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by G1Ravage on Fri Aug 22 02:48:04 2008. For anyone who burns DVD's or wants a *very* high quality copy of the original public domain film, it can be had here:http://www.archive.org/details/ThirdAve1950 MPEG2 version will let you burn it directly to a DVD if you have DVD-making software ... YouTube is cool and all, but Flash Video "quality" bites the bag. :( |
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| (671101) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by irt1958 on Fri Aug 22 10:13:04 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by Fulton Frank on Thu Aug 21 23:09:09 2008. You're looking too hard at the physical signal itself. Within the head, from the top down: Green over Yellow over Red is universal these days; back in the 50's the IRT still had its original signal aspects, also the position of the colors, within the head, was different, ie: Green over Red over Yellow was the original IRT style. That's why I asked you to pay special attention to that dwarf, in the movie, it had Red over Yellow. I don't think there are any more of those anywhere; although it took them many years to convert the original IRT over to the rest of the system. |
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Re: VERY HIGH quality version! (Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's) |
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Posted by irt1958 on Fri Aug 22 10:28:11 2008, in response to VERY HIGH quality version! (Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's), posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 22 03:25:22 2008. Thanks for that. The docu had some pretty decent editing, I wish there was more of the same somewhere. (like the IRT's Utica Ave station, at rush hour, in 1954) |
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Re: VERY HIGH quality version! (Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's) |
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Posted by Bob Andersen on Fri Aug 22 11:13:33 2008, in response to Re: VERY HIGH quality version! (Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's), posted by irt1958 on Fri Aug 22 10:28:11 2008. I'd like to see videos of Sands St. and Park Row! |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by 156n3rd on Fri Aug 22 14:20:24 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by irt1958 on Thu Aug 21 00:24:02 2008. Have seen this vid on the net for years and it is very good. The Transit Museum used to have a tv on a stand with a display about the 3rd Ave. line. It was a run from bottom to top if the line. Time to bring it back out for all to see again. Ah, my good old birth right 3rd Avenue El. |
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Re: VERY HIGH quality version! (Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's) |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Aug 22 16:46:22 2008, in response to Re: VERY HIGH quality version! (Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's), posted by Bob Andersen on Fri Aug 22 11:13:33 2008. You ain't the only one! |
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Re: VERY HIGH quality version! (Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 22 18:21:47 2008, in response to Re: VERY HIGH quality version! (Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's), posted by irt1958 on Fri Aug 22 10:28:11 2008. There isn't much out there in public domain, but there are a number of tape and DVD sellers that might have stuff like that ... |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by Fulton Frank on Fri Aug 22 20:26:17 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by irt1958 on Fri Aug 22 10:13:04 2008. Oh ok, I got it. Red on top of yellow - surely an old IRT cocnfiguration. But, what is a dwarf signal doing in that seemingly main route - ie, not an interlocking or yard? |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by BMTLines on Fri Aug 22 20:42:18 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by irt1958 on Thu Aug 21 17:39:00 2008. For those interested the BMT and IRT signal sections of the 1944 rulebook can be found here |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by milan1834 on Sat Aug 23 03:27:34 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by irt1958 on Thu Aug 21 00:24:02 2008. I loved the 3rd Avenue El1 It was a timeless way to see Manhattan. My father and I would take long rides on the El. I, and lots of other folks, cried when it was torn down.Later, I had a job as a Bungalow Bar ice cream truck salesman, and I had to ride the surviving Bronx portions to get to the garage. I kept track of many of the WF Steinway and Lo-V Steinway numbers. I spotted Lo-Vs such as 5637 and 5647 mixed in or leading trains; trailers such as 5335, 5337 and 4902. Getting to that job was half the fun. On Sundays, the service was only every 20 minutes apart all day, though, with just three trains. It was really a shame that onne of the MUDC motors were saved. Amazingly, three of the 1887-era Gilbert ^ Bush cars were, however. Two of them atr at the Western Railway Museum in Rio Vista Junction, CA however.   
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by irt1958 on Sat Aug 23 11:42:37 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by Fulton Frank on Fri Aug 22 20:26:17 2008. I don't know the indication protocol of that era, although my dad (God rest him) who was a Construction Flagman for the IRT, would know. I can only guess that since it was a blind curve, they wanted the motormen to slow down, and prepare to stop on a dime, if necessary. |
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| (671549) | |
Re: VERY HIGH quality version! (Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's) |
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Posted by irt1958 on Sat Aug 23 11:46:47 2008, in response to Re: VERY HIGH quality version! (Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's), posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 22 18:21:47 2008. Good sugestion, I'll search. (the digital age, love it) |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by milan1834 on Sat Aug 23 13:13:42 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by irt1958 on Sat Aug 23 11:42:37 2008. Since the glimpses of the signals were viewed before and after the swing bridge opened and closed, I would presume that they protected trains from going into the drink. |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sat Aug 23 14:12:13 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by RedbirdR33 on Thu Aug 21 20:04:58 2008. Hmm...why were the world's fair LO-Vs retired so early? Only 31 years old? Strange...most prewar stock lasted LONGER, like 45-50 years+. I smell corruption, or was there a real justification for such early retirement? |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sat Aug 23 14:13:46 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by irt1958 on Thu Aug 21 08:17:04 2008. I would expect them to accelerate faster though...didn't they have more powerful motors, and lower gearing(steinway cars)? That would cause better low end acceleration with lower top speeds... |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by irt1958 on Sun Aug 24 23:51:34 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by irt1958 on Thu Aug 21 17:39:00 2008. Thanks, these are the pages I was refering to. My dad brought home (temporarily) a number of work items (valuable artifacts today) kerosene lanterns, 3rd rail power cable segments etc. |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by irt1958 on Sun Aug 24 23:53:40 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by milan1834 on Sat Aug 23 13:13:42 2008. Pretty good presumption. lol |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by irt1958 on Sun Aug 24 23:55:25 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by BMTLines on Fri Aug 22 20:42:18 2008. Thanks, these are the pages I was refering to. My dad brought home (temporarily) a number of work items (valuable artifacts today) kerosene lanterns, 3rd rail power cable segments etc |
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Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's |
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Posted by irt1958 on Sun Aug 24 23:58:49 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El - early 1950's, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Sat Aug 23 14:13:46 2008. It was 50 years ago (and I was a kid then) and IIRC they were slower than the standard Lo Vs. |
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