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Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by Allan on Tue Jul 29 10:14:05 2008

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This was posted in RailRoad.Net asking for and ID and any history.

I have never seen the car before and am very curious as well. It looks like a trolley car or an interurban

Anyone got any info?

http://mysite.verizon.net/res8zy1u//Aucts09/nycta3.jpg

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(658202)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by BMTLines on Tue Jul 29 11:04:41 2008, in response to Can anyone ID this car?, posted by Allan on Tue Jul 29 10:14:05 2008.

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Lo V converted to work motor?

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(658207)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue Jul 29 11:21:23 2008, in response to Can anyone ID this car?, posted by Allan on Tue Jul 29 10:14:05 2008.

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Bears a striking resemblance to the Sperry Car, but definitely looks like a converted IRT Lo-V work motor. Can't say I ever saw this one on the property when I was at NYCT.

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(658226)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by Dave on Tue Jul 29 12:00:44 2008, in response to Can anyone ID this car?, posted by Allan on Tue Jul 29 10:14:05 2008.

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Sure looks like a trolley car.

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(658229)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by TunnelRat on Tue Jul 29 12:06:11 2008, in response to Can anyone ID this car?, posted by Allan on Tue Jul 29 10:14:05 2008.

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can anyone link this,I can`t pull it up pn my p.c.

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(658234)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by Joe Saitta on Tue Jul 29 12:17:50 2008, in response to Can anyone ID this car?, posted by Allan on Tue Jul 29 10:14:05 2008.

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Tunnel Rat - here's the photo

Just a guess, but I don't believe that's a true NYCTA car - it's very possible someone applied the NYCTA logos and numbers to what I believe is an ex-trolley car; look at the cowcatcher. Note also the absence of third rails in the yard and no third rail shoes on the car. Also, if one looks closely at the roof, it looks as if something - perhaps the trolley pole bases - still remains, but just a bit. It could be an early SRS car but that building is fairly modern. The true identifier, however, would probably be that building - is it on NYCTA or MTA property?




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(658241)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by Dan on Tue Jul 29 12:34:06 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by Joe Saitta on Tue Jul 29 12:17:50 2008.

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Can you tell what's written under the "M" logo in front of the car?

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(658249)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by TunnelRat on Tue Jul 29 12:45:53 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by Joe Saitta on Tue Jul 29 12:17:50 2008.

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Thank`s joe.it looks like a former interurban in a rail yard[not subway]with a photo shopped t.a.logo.

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(658251)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by JBar387 on Tue Jul 29 12:45:59 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by TunnelRat on Tue Jul 29 12:06:11 2008.

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Here

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(658252)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Jul 29 12:46:04 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by Joe Saitta on Tue Jul 29 12:17:50 2008.

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Also, look at the rear truck... I cannot tell, but i think this car would only fit on BMT type lines due to the height of the roof, so it is also probably ten feet wide. It is probably some sort of ex- interurban railcar or something, they too sometimes used cowcatchers. Also, sperry has a railcar that looks like a PCC that i see at the PATH yards sometimes.


here is a photo of an interurban railcar...it looks similar...




Here is a photo of an old brill interurban car
Those cars there lasted in service for about 60 years. Robust, they were.


But anyways, i doubt that was an Lo-V rebuild. They wouldn't change it to look completeley different, especially, they wouldn't remove the storm door, it is definately an old interurban car.

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(658255)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Jul 29 12:48:26 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by TunnelRat on Tue Jul 29 12:45:53 2008.

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so it is a fake?

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(658256)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by TunnelRat on Tue Jul 29 12:48:35 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Jul 29 12:46:04 2008.

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that 1st photo is of the old B&A RR.

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(658257)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by TunnelRat on Tue Jul 29 12:49:53 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Jul 29 12:48:26 2008.

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I,ll let the audience decide.

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(658258)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Jul 29 12:52:04 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by TunnelRat on Tue Jul 29 12:49:53 2008.

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I guess it wouldn't make sense for the TA to go and buy old interurbans= cars when they had so many cars of similar properties, like the BMT standards, and IRT Lo-Vs. They would just convert those old cars to work service, but then again, the TA doesn't always do what makes sense. :(

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(658261)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Jul 29 12:56:02 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by Joe Saitta on Tue Jul 29 12:17:50 2008.

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Looks like an interurban....

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(658265)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by Dave on Tue Jul 29 13:15:21 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by TunnelRat on Tue Jul 29 12:48:35 2008.

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Boston & Albany? Or Bangor & Aroostook?

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(658266)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by Fulton Frank on Tue Jul 29 13:15:22 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Jul 29 12:46:04 2008.

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That rear truck has inside bearings. That can't be original, can it?



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(658268)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by Dave on Tue Jul 29 13:16:32 2008, in response to Can anyone ID this car?, posted by Allan on Tue Jul 29 10:14:05 2008.

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Betcha it's photoshopped.

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(658269)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Jul 29 13:18:57 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by Fulton Frank on Tue Jul 29 13:15:22 2008.

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It can be. In those days, they had different sized trucks or wheels for powered and unpowered trucks or axles, i am sure you know this, but for the age that that thing looks, it probably didn't come originally with inside bearings. When did inside bearings start appearing on railcars? I know steam locos had them, but railcars always seem to have them outside, especally old and freight ones.

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(658272)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by TunnelRat on Tue Jul 29 13:24:36 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by Dave on Tue Jul 29 13:15:21 2008.

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Baltimore&Annapolis,a fairwell fantrip.

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(658274)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by Frank Hicks on Tue Jul 29 13:28:01 2008, in response to Can anyone ID this car?, posted by Allan on Tue Jul 29 10:14:05 2008.

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It's a Sperry inspection car, probably built by Brill judging by the design of the letterboard and by the fact that the near truck appears to be a Brill 27MCB2X or something similar. I wasn't able to find any photos of Sperry 121, but here's a picture of Sperry 120 from www.northeast.railfan.net:



It's the same basic design, right down to the unusual railroad roof and different-type trucks (the motor truck, on the left in this photo, is of a type commonly used on Brill motor cars; the 27MCB truck on the right was used by Brill on interurbans).

Fascinating photo of car 121; thanks for posting!

Frank Hicks

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(658275)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by TunnelRat on Tue Jul 29 13:28:08 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by Dave on Tue Jul 29 13:16:32 2008.

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Or billy wall found this car somewhere&stuck the t.a.logo on it!remember 1689 on the fan trip,billy having fun!

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(658277)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by jan k. lorenzen on Tue Jul 29 13:39:23 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by Frank Hicks on Tue Jul 29 13:28:01 2008.

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Sperry 121 is possibly preserved somewhere, the building is new type steel consruction, and looks like its in between some retired Class 1 equipment. It is a fascinating photo. Did these operate from both ends? Might be worth a look at the Sperry historic site.

Its self propelled for sure, gasoline or diesel? I like the spoiler type intake on the roof. It must have been loud, hot and smoky in there by the end of its service life!

Edwards Rail car still makes cars like this for the short line and tourist line market.

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(658290)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Jul 29 14:23:20 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by jan k. lorenzen on Tue Jul 29 13:39:23 2008.

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Found it!

The car was built as SRS 116 by Brill in 1930 and was renumbered 121 in 1935 (Source: Sperry all-time roster). It was restored by the Edwards Rail Car Co. and purchased in 2003 by the Black River & Western RR and was run as the Delaware Turtle excursion train. It has been shipped all over the country since its restoration, and I send off an e-mail to find its current whereabouts.

As SRS 116, circa 1930:



As Delaware Turtle M-55, circa 2004:





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(658295)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Jul 29 14:44:51 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Jul 29 14:23:20 2008.

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Response from the Black River Railroad Historic Trust:

"The M-55 is currently stored at our Ringoes, NJ yard out-of-service. This piece of equipment needs some extensive work to its electrical system and transmission, along with a couple other odds and ends before being placed back into service. There are not currently any official plans for completion of this work."

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(658298)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by Frank Hicks on Tue Jul 29 14:48:52 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by TunnelRat on Tue Jul 29 12:48:35 2008.

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that 1st photo is of the old B&A RR.

What, the photo of car 125 towing an ex-Manhattan Elevated car? That's the Dayton & Troy Electric, not the B&A. They had a number of ex-Manhattan Elevated cars, including this interesting rebuild:



Frank HIcks

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(658306)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Jul 29 15:33:44 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by TunnelRat on Tue Jul 29 12:45:53 2008.

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Nope. It looks like the SIR Clifton Shops, so it may very well be something that was inherited from the B&O.

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(658319)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by jan k. lorenzen on Tue Jul 29 16:30:57 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Jul 29 14:23:20 2008.

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SRS 115/M55 kinda looks different from the SRS 121 doesn't it?

That all time list is pretty interesting - check out SRS 140, now in Austrailia - built from an R33 shell never used by the NYCTA. Looks kinda cool, maybe modelling material for an unusual prototype.

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(658403)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by Allan on Tue Jul 29 19:49:27 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by Frank Hicks on Tue Jul 29 13:28:01 2008.

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Thanks, Frank.

It is interesting - somewhere along the line either NYCT or a predecessor added a center door.

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(658442)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by Broadway Buffer on Tue Jul 29 20:44:15 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Jul 29 12:52:04 2008.

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But they did, and robust as they were fugly.



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(658444)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by Jeff H. on Tue Jul 29 20:53:13 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by Allan on Tue Jul 29 19:49:27 2008.

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Is there any evidence to suggest that this car was ever owned
by NYCT? The MTA logo is probably just a goof.

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(658457)

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Questions about inner bearing axle trucks.

Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue Jul 29 21:26:53 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by Joe Saitta on Tue Jul 29 12:17:50 2008.

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So now i am wondering...when did the inner bearing trucks get developed, and why? What are the advantages? I can imagine it is easier to swap out the wheels, but are there other advantages, like a better ride, or less rail wear? Are there anyy disadvantages? I can imagine they can't take as heavy of a load, because all fright trains use outer bearing trucks.
Also, what are hollow axles, why were they developed, and what are the advantages over solid axles?

Thank you in advance.

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(658758)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Jul 30 12:18:28 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by Jeff H. on Tue Jul 29 20:53:13 2008.

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Looking at it again, wherever it is, there's no third rail, so it's not on NYCT.

Most likely it's a Photoshoped shot.

We know it's an ex-Sperry car, but where is still a mystery.

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(658765)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Wed Jul 30 12:27:46 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Jul 30 12:18:28 2008.

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I thought it was a genuine NYCT piece of equipment because of the lettering on the trucks which looks like what NYCT does.
But that to could be faked to give it a genuine look.

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(659304)

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Re: Can anyone ID this car?

Posted by Evan on Thu Jul 31 16:01:05 2008, in response to Re: Can anyone ID this car?, posted by Allan on Tue Jul 29 19:49:27 2008.

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The center door was added by Remington Arms. During WWII, Remington owned both 120 and 121.

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