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How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jul 5 22:52:12 2008 Link hereKudos to John Cambron for his fine diagrams. How does WMATA plan to run 3 rush hour services without cutting service to the Route 66 stations or the Blue Line's southern portion? |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sat Jul 5 23:13:13 2008, in response to How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jul 5 22:52:12 2008. They will have their hands full but the WMATA is apt for the challenge. Since the Blue line has lower ridership than the Orange service would have to be reduced. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Jul 5 23:17:25 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Forest Glen on Sat Jul 5 23:13:13 2008. They will have their hands full but the WMATA is apt for the challengeNo, sorry, that's not the answer. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Jul 5 23:47:15 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Forest Glen on Sat Jul 5 23:13:13 2008. They will have their hands full but the WMATA is apt for the challenge.You just left bait for all of your detractors. I seriously think that you could come up with a much better answer than "WMATA can do anything it desires". Hell, at minimum, if you could have pointed to various statements made by Sand Box John that allude to WMATA's theoretical capability to run trains with tighter headways if more cars were procured. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sat Jul 5 23:52:37 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Jul 5 23:47:15 2008. In the next sentence I explained what can be done to address this (a slight reduction in Blue line service). |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Jul 5 23:56:19 2008, in response to How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jul 5 22:52:12 2008. They won't, as has been discussed on this board many times including over the past few days (albeit not under a thread title that would make it easy to see that the topic was being discussed). The plan is that during rush hour, half the trains from Franconia-Springfield will operate via the Fenwick Bridge to Greenbelt on what WMATA is calling the Aqua Line as of now. Some trains from Vienna and Dulles will be sent to Largo and New Carrollton as needed to maintain needed service levels. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Jul 5 23:59:49 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Forest Glen on Sat Jul 5 23:13:13 2008. WMATA has already come up with a solution to this. As has been discussed on this board many times including over the past few days (albeit not under a thread title that would make it easy to see that the topic was being discussed), half the trains from Franconia-Springfield will operate via the Fenwick Bridge to Greenbelt on what WMATA is calling the Aqua Line as of now. Some trains from Vienna and Dulles will be sent to Largo and New Carrollton as needed to maintain needed service levels. Since most Blue Line passengers are headed for Farragut West and that general area and enjoy the one seat ride they currently have, they are NOT looking forward to whenever Silver Line service starts and this change takes place. In fact, the Blue Line to Greenbelt may come on line in some form BEFORE the Silver Line even operates. This is why WMATA never reswapped the Blue and Yellow Line southern terminals as they said they would when Van Dorn Street opened in 1991. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jul 6 00:02:56 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Forest Glen on Sat Jul 5 23:52:37 2008. And I give the actual answer in this post and this post. How on earth can you just simply reduce Blue Line service on account of the fact it has less ridership? Ever ride the Blue Line during rush hour? There is a reason that until recently, the Blue Line regularly ran longer trains on the weekend than during the week (and is the only transit line I can think of that did this anywhere) and it wasn't because ridership was low. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jul 6 00:06:38 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jul 6 00:02:56 2008. Also, running fewer Blues due to it having lower ridership has been done, and not without consequences. Expanding headways out to 7-8 minutes from 6 during rush hours to accomodate trippers on the Orange Line combined with 4 car trains due to a car shortage makes for crowded trains and unhappy commuters. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jul 6 00:08:47 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Forest Glen on Sat Jul 5 23:13:13 2008. Do you wonder why people call you WMATA's version of 'Baghdad Bob'???? |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sun Jul 6 00:11:43 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jul 6 00:06:38 2008. Still, the Blue line is essentially a supplementary line. It makes that silly loop before heading to the downtown area. From Franconia/Springfield it is easier to transfer to the Yellow Line to reach L'Enfant Plaza and Metro Center (via the Red line). The Orange line is heavily congested along the I66. Although the Yellow line is shorter than the Blue, it is more crowded due to the fact that it has a more direct route. Potential crowding on the Blue line would be cancelled out by the new Silver line and improvements to the Yellow and Orange lines. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 6 00:45:03 2008, in response to How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jul 5 22:52:12 2008. Very simple.They will trade Blue line slots south of Rosslyn to the K route. Those new K route slots will be divided between the Silver and Orange lines. In the case of the mid city E and F routes. Yellow line slots will be traded to the Blue line. When you add the slot traded to the train off the N route Silver line, peek headways on the Orange line west of East Falls Church remain the same. The K route in North Arlington will end up having more service, The Yellow line south of King Street will have less. Service on the three trunks will remain the same. Came across a document at wmata.com that indicates WMATA will labeling train running between Springfield-Franconia and terminals on the F as Aqua. Background: The full length of all routes have their train control and signaling system designed to accommodate 90 second headways. The future N route will have train control and signaling system designed to accommodate 135 second headways. WMATA presently advertises 180 second headways peek on the C, D route Blue, Orange, E, F route Green Yellow and C route Blue, Yellow trunks. Base on the document I have read WMATA has no plans in the near term or after the full build out of the of the N route Silver line to shorten headway below what is presently advertised. WMATA couldn't shorten their headway even if they wanted to because they wouldn't have enough rolling stock based on their planed rolling stock procurement schedule. The headway specification on the N route will have no effect on the headways east of Rosslyn. It is unlikely that WMATA will run 2 consecutive Silver line train off N route through Rosslyn. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 6 01:02:21 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Jul 6 00:11:43 2008. Still, the Blue line is essentially a supplementary line. It makes that silly loop before heading to the downtown area. . . .You are missing some facts. The combined C and D routes run between Huntington and New Carrollton. The K route Orange line west of Rosslyn is a branch off of the C route. The L route Yellow line north of Pentagon is a branch off of the C route. The J route Blue line west of King Street is a branch off of the C route. The G route Blue line east of Stadium-Armory is a branch off of the D route. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 6 01:05:41 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Forest Glen on Sat Jul 5 23:52:37 2008. If WMATA was up to it, then why did you need to tell them what to do??? |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 6 01:05:54 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Jul 5 23:59:49 2008. nice |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 6 01:06:09 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jul 6 00:08:47 2008. He doesn't. But he should. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jul 6 01:22:58 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Jul 6 00:11:43 2008. Travel time from any Blue Line station from Pentagon to Franconia-Springfield inclusive to Metro Center is shorter if you stay on the Blue Line than if you take the Yellow Line to the Red Line. If you don't believe me, go look at the online schedules. The only exceptions might be at the start of service, early in the mornings on weekends, late at night, or if you just miss a Yellow Line on a Sunday, and even then, it isn't likely.The Blue Line is busier than Yellow. Unfortunately, I don't have the numbers for the Pentagon loading point to post, but take my word for this. The Largo extension has brought new riders to that end of the line. The Franconia-Springfield branch is more popular than Huntington, and its riders want to go to K Street, not L'Enfant Plaza. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 6 01:26:19 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Jul 5 23:59:49 2008. Thank you for that explanation. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 6 01:31:18 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 6 00:45:03 2008. Thank you, sir. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jul 6 01:44:07 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 6 00:45:03 2008. Is the plan really to cut Yellow Lines out of Huntington, or will they just widen the headways slightly the way they used to on the Blue Line to accomodate the Orange Line trippers?Here are some 2004 daily average ridership stats on the southern ends of the Blue and Yellow Lines, with the overall systemwide rank in parenthesis (out of 83 stations open at that time): Franconia-Springfield 9,265 (24th) Huntington 8,501 (27th) Van Dorn Street 3,683 (64th) Eisenhower Avenue 1,788 (81st) Combined Franconia & Van Dorn ridership: 12,948 Combined Huntington & Eisenhower ridership: 10,289 With the additional service to Greenbelt, depending upon the capacity to turn trains at Mount Vernon Square, they could also turn some trains from Franconia-Springfield, Huntington, or Branch Avenue at that location to make service levels match what is actually needed. Even though WMATA is designed for 90 second headways, I don't think we will ever see them run. The station dwell times all but preclude it. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by shiznit1987 on Sun Jul 6 09:56:30 2008, in response to How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jul 5 22:52:12 2008. Send the Yellow to Franconia-Springfield and have the Blue line run to Dulles from Largo. Run limited "Silver" service between Huntingdon and Stadium-Armory.(one could abandon the Arlington Cemetary route altogether and run Huntingdon-King street shuttles to meet yellow line trains) |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 6 10:08:08 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jul 6 01:44:07 2008. Is the plan really to cut Yellow Lines out of Huntington, or will they just widen the headways slightly the way they used to on the Blue Line to accomodate the Orange Line trippers?That schema may work under the present configuration of the lines on the railroad. Changing headways on the Blue 'might' affect Orange and future Silver line headways on the C, D trunk. It will also likely produce similar affects to headway on the Green line. If the tripper schema you describe is used to maintain the present TPH out of Huntington after the Aqua line is rolled out, WMATA will not be able to honestly advertise 6 minute headways on the branches and 3 minute headways on trunks. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 6 10:28:33 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by shiznit1987 on Sun Jul 6 09:56:30 2008. Send the Yellow to Franconia-Springfield and have the Blue line run to Dulles from Largo. Run limited "Silver" service between Huntingdon and Stadium-Armory.(one could abandon the Arlington Cemetary route altogether and run Huntingdon-King street shuttles to meet yellow line trains) That schema mostly changes the line colors and reduces number of branches that serve the C, D route trunk. It also eliminates the availability of one seat service from stations south of Pentagon to station north of Pentagon on the C, D and G routes. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jul 6 12:10:01 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 6 10:08:08 2008. WMATA advertised 6 minute headways on the Blue Line during rush hour. Since getting the timetables for rush hours is difficult it is hard to know exactly what the scheduled times were, but I've heard from several places that the Blue Lines were scheduled every 7 to 8 minutes during the peak of the peak to accomodate for the Orange Line tripppers. This would be no different. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 6 13:26:38 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jul 6 12:10:01 2008. WMATA advertised 6 minute headways on the Blue Line during rush hour. Since getting the timetables for rush hours is difficult it is hard to know exactly what the scheduled times were, but I've heard from several places that the Blue Lines were scheduled every 7 to 8 minutes during the peak of the peak to accomodate for the Orange Line tripppers. This would be no different.If such a schema will work with the presents of the of both the future Silver and the realigned Blue to Aqua, then no problem. Frankly, what I would like see is more 7k cars then what they their procurement schedule is calling for. Their present procurement schedule is calling for 500 cars over 10 years starting in 2012. 130 cars are for the Silver line, 292 cars will replace the 1k cars. Total increase in fleet size minus cars for the Silver line 78. The total fleet size after all 500 cars are put in service will not be enough to make 100% of the trains on all lines during peek 8 cars long, this includes both future Silver and realigned Blue to Aqua lines. Increase the 78 to 156 or 212 and shorten the headways on all lines 10 to 20 seconds. This will also not allow 100% 8 car trains on all lines during peek. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 6 13:31:46 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 6 13:26:38 2008. Thanks for those added details. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Jul 6 16:00:46 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 6 13:26:38 2008. I still don't understand why they just won't remove the Blue from the Orange line via M street Subway...Granted..Georgetown didn't want a subway in the first place...but now since they don't have much choice...why NOT do it? |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 6 16:42:57 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Edwards! on Sun Jul 6 16:00:46 2008. I still don't understand why they just won't remove the Blue from the Orange line via M street Subway...The answer is pretty simple. $$,$$$,$$$,$$$.˘˘. A cheaper solution is to procure more rolling stock and run close headways. At present time WMATA is only exploiting the train control and signaling system to half its designed capability. Granted..Georgetown didn't want a subway in the first place... I wish this myth would die. ...but now since they don't have much choice...why NOT do it? I answered that question above. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 6 16:57:14 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 6 16:42:57 2008. A subway through Georgetown would be great. Ufortunately, the entire silvber Line budget would likely pay for barely a mile of new subway there. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 6 18:01:46 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 6 16:57:14 2008. A subway through Georgetown would be great. Ufortunately, the entire silvber Line budget would likely pay for barely a mile of new subway there.The way WMATA is proposing to connect the M Street subway to the existing K and C routes in Rosslyn I don't think total budget of the Dulles Corridor metrorail Project will pay for anything east of Wisconsin Avenue. Hell I doubt there would be enough money to build the station in Georgetown. I created a track schematic of the existing system with the M Street subway included. The schematic is based on documents I have seen at wmata.com. The route labels, crossovers location and the configurations of the station at River Terrace (D&G Junction) is speculation by me but are based on common WMATA design practices. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Jul 6 18:45:32 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 6 18:01:46 2008. I see you created a spur from the Georgetown Q Route..is this a proposal by you..or the WMATA for a line to..Where? |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Jul 6 18:49:15 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 6 16:42:57 2008. It's a myth?From every report that I've read so far stated they didn't want a subway,due to the impression they had based on NY and Philly.. Also..since I lived in the DC area for a few years why subway construction was going on in MT PLEASENT[Green line Inner city route].. The scuttlebutt was that Georgetown snobs fought tooth and nail to keep the Subway out of their neighborhood. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jul 6 19:22:13 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 6 18:01:46 2008. Very creative, John... |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jul 6 19:34:48 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Edwards! on Sun Jul 6 18:49:15 2008. Read The Great Society Subway by Zachary Schrag |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 6 20:44:44 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Edwards! on Sun Jul 6 18:49:15 2008. It's a myth?Yes From every report that I've read so far stated they didn't want a subway,due to the impression they had based on NY and Philly.. Myths and urban legends tend to perpetuate themselves and start being believed to be true when they are repeated often enough. Also..since I lived in the DC area for a few years why subway construction was going on in MT PLEASENT[Green line Inner city route].. The scuttlebutt was that Georgetown snobs fought tooth and nail to keep the Subway out of their neighborhood. I lived near DUPONT CIRCLE when they were building the first phases in downtown during 1970s. I worked with Cody Phanstiehl, then Director of the Office of Community Service at WMATA conducting public tours of the construction during the years before Phase I opened. The question "Why no station in Georgetown" was asked many time after the Cody did his presentation before everybody put on hard hats before exploring the digs. There were a number of reasons given. None of them included Georgetown didn’t want a station in their community. I think part of the origin of the myth can traced back to this article that appeared in U. S. News & World Report on August 15, 1994. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Sun Jul 6 20:57:06 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 6 16:42:57 2008. At present time WMATA is only exploiting the train control and signaling system to half its designed capability.Scheduled headways on the combined blue/orange line through dowtown are as short as 2 minutes during the "orange crush" part of the morning rush (orange, orange, blue, orange, orange, blue). That's getting damn clsoe to the design headways, and reality often achieves the scheduled headway. (Obviously any incident at all blows the schedule to hell when every train can see the taillights of the one in front.) |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 6 21:17:52 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Edwards! on Sun Jul 6 18:45:32 2008. I see you created a spur from the Georgetown Q Route..is this a proposal by you..or the WMATA for a line to..Where?That spur appears on page 15 in Future Metrorail Capacity Needs (423 KB PDF file). There has been some noise about building a line in the Wisconsin Avenue corridor between Rosslyn and or Georgetown and Tenley Circle. One can safely assume this is what that future junction would be used for. The west end of the Georgetown station on the proposed M Street subway is east of the 31st and M Street intersection. That leaves enough room to curve the tunnels north up Wisconsin Avenue. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 6 21:28:54 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Sun Jul 6 20:57:06 2008. Scheduled headways on the combined blue/orange line through dowtown are as short as 2 minutes during the "orange crush" part of the morning rush (orange, orange, blue, orange, orange, blue). That's getting damn clsoe to the design headways, and reality often achieves the scheduled headway.This begs the question. During the "orange crush", as you call it, part of the morning peak are all of those trains 8 car trains? (Obviously any incident at all blows the schedule to hell when every train can see the taillights of the one in front.) I have no doubt that when something craps the bed all bets are off when it come to trying to maintain the schedule. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jul 6 22:08:32 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 6 21:28:54 2008. The Blue Line does not run 8 car trains during rush hour, so they are not. Even the Orange Line does not, though it runs more now than it used to since the trippers were eliminated. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 6 22:47:49 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jul 6 22:08:32 2008. Thanks Oren.John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Jul 6 23:18:01 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 6 20:44:44 2008. Humm..interesting enough...I Just asked my uncle the very same question...over the phoneHe said the VERY SAME..."Georgetown snobs didn't want the subway..they screamed about it actually[no subway in our neighborhood] cause they figured it would bring Crime and THAT ELEMENT to their front door" Now..this man LIVES in DC..and lived there for years. Humm..perhaps its due to the fact that You worked for them..[WMATA]or your not telling the whole truth..or perhaps its a little of both..but Both of us KNOW that it was racial motivations..just like Atlanta..just like Baltimore... Come on..it was the 50's and 60's when these routes were being planned...who's kidding who? |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jul 6 23:20:40 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Edwards! on Sun Jul 6 23:18:01 2008. http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=645196 |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Jul 6 23:47:30 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jul 6 23:20:40 2008. Do you perform at shows also?You could really make a killin'... |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Mon Jul 7 07:33:06 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 6 20:44:44 2008. Interesting. What's also very interesting is the U.S. News & World Report article is that its about a Linthicum, Maryland protest about the Baltimore Central Light Rail line, less than two years after the line opened.The protest went nowhere, BTW. During the pre-construction period of the CLRL, BSM members attended many of the hearings and the same type of argument came up at almost every hearing. We always spoke in rebuttal, and our statement was "they will arrive, break into your house, steal things, and leave the way they arrived - in a car. If you think somebody would steal a TV and then lug it to a station where they might have to wait 15 or 20 minutes for a train, you're pretty dumb." It shut down the argument that transit brings crime every time, except in Ruxton and Riderwood, where the mindset is still very much alive 16 years after the line opened. The MTA solution was not to build stops there. |
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Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks? |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Mon Jul 7 09:32:14 2008, in response to Re: How will WMATA run 3 services on two tracks?, posted by Edwards! on Sun Jul 6 23:18:01 2008. I have never seen any writings stating opposition from Georgetown residents to an alignments through their community in any of the documents that evolved into the 106 mile metrorail system. I have never seen nor has anybody ever referred me to a newspaper story from that era that specifically stated that Georgetown didn't want metrorail in their community.As a teenager in the 1970 I spent a lot of time in the Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library on G Street NW in Washington DC looking at microfilm back issues of the Washington Post and Washington Star. At no time did I ever see an article about opposition from Georgetown residents to a metrorail alignment through their community. Until some one can put concrete evidence it in front of me that definitively proves that there was opposition from Georgetown residents, the "Georgetown didn't want metrorail through their community" claim will remain a myth and urban legend to me. And as Oren has stated twice you should read The Great Society Subway by Zachary Schrag. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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