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| (645349) | |
Re: extend the Victoria line to Croydon?(LU) |
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Posted by fytton on Mon Jul 7 05:46:11 2008, in response to extend the Victoria line to Croydon?(LU), posted by shiznit1987 on Sun Jul 6 09:46:28 2008. Would be nice. These is even some land just to the west of the platforms at East Croydon station where the terminal platforms could go, to make it like Wimbledon, Richmond or Ealing Broadway in layout, for convenient transfers. The problem, of course, is the cost of tunneling from Brixton/Elephant/Kennington to somewhere just north of East Croydon station (where the line would come to the surface) aty 2008 prices.Various Tube extensions south of the Thames have been discussed over time; one issue is the loading of the lines. The Victoria Line loads very heavily already, so extending the Bakerloo Line from Elephant & Castle or the Northern Line (Charing Cross branch) from Kennington southwards might be better idea. |
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| (645650) | |
Re: extend the Victoria line to Croydon?(LU) |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Mon Jul 7 19:08:29 2008, in response to extend the Victoria line to Croydon?(LU), posted by shiznit1987 on Sun Jul 6 09:46:28 2008. One SubChatter was actually a member of the planning team for that line. Maybe he'll answer. |
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| (645986) | |
Re: extend the Victoria line to Croydon?(LU) |
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Posted by David Fairthorne on Tue Jul 8 15:04:25 2008, in response to Re: extend the Victoria line to Croydon?(LU), posted by Wado MP73 on Mon Jul 7 19:08:29 2008. One SubChatter was actually a member of the planning team for that line. Maybe he'll answer.If you mean me, that's a pretty flattering description, but it gives a somewhat misleading impression. My job in the planning department of London Transport (at 55 Broadway, above St. James Park station, 1953 - 1955) was a very junior one. It mainly involved using calculating machines! I did have access to some interesting ridership data, but I played no part in the decision making process. The Victoria line was being planned at the time, and it was then known as "Line C". The main focus was on relieving overcrowding on the Piccadilly line especially north of Kings Cross. In my opinion a southward extension of the Victoria line is most desirable, but as Fytton has pointed out, the main obstacle is cost. An extension to East Croydon would be ideal, but if that was too expensive an extension as far as Streatham would be worthwhile. |
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| (646110) | |
Re: extend the Victoria line to Croydon?(LU) |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Jul 8 21:42:08 2008, in response to Re: extend the Victoria line to Croydon?(LU), posted by David Fairthorne on Tue Jul 8 15:04:25 2008. but I played no part in the decision making process.That was my misunderstanding. But it still amazes me that someone who was there, actually posts here. Thanks for replying. |
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| (646184) | |
Re: extend the Victoria line to Croydon?(LU) |
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Posted by fytton on Wed Jul 9 03:57:21 2008, in response to Re: extend the Victoria line to Croydon?(LU), posted by David Fairthorne on Tue Jul 8 15:04:25 2008. 'In my opinion a southward extension of the Victoria line is most desirable, but as Fytton has pointed out, the main obstacle is cost. An extension to East Croydon would be ideal, but if that was too expensive an extension as far as Streatham would be worthwhile.'The obvious extension from Brixton would be a Tube under the main A23 road (Brixton Hill-Streatham Hill-Streatham High Road-London Road), which already has very frequent buses. [It's a kind of South London equivalent of the Uxbridge Road corridor in West London - which could also do with a Tube extension beneath it, of the Central Line from Ealing Broadway in that case.] New Tube stations would be: Brixton Hill (perhaps, if the spacing was thought to be too long between Brixton and Streatham Hill), Streatham Hill (national rail interchange), Streatham (national rail interchange), then divert slightly off the A23 route to serve Streatham Common (national rail interchange), back to the A23 to Norbury (national rail interchange), Thornton Heath Pond (perhaps called North Croydon - it's *not* in the same place as Thornton Heath national rail station), West Croydon (national rail and Croydon Bus Station interchange), then swing east to terminate at East Croydon (national rail and Croydon Tramlink interchange). |
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| (646186) | |
Re: extend the Victoria line to Croydon?(LU) |
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Posted by fytton on Wed Jul 9 04:21:47 2008, in response to Re: extend the Victoria line to Croydon?(LU), posted by fytton on Wed Jul 9 03:57:21 2008. A quick look at 'The Victoria Line' by Mike Horne, published by Capital Transport in 2004, reveals that London Transport's 'scheme D' of 1947 would have run from Walthamstow to East Croydon as I described in my previous post, except missing out West Croydon. The line would have forked into two branches after Norbury, one direct to East Croydon, the other via West Croydon and on to South Croydon and beyond. By 1949 it was 'scheme C' - the one David Fairthorne worked on - and the West and South Croydon branch has disappeared; furthermore, south of Brixton it only had four proposed stations, at Streatham Hill, Streatham, Norbury and East Croydon - presumably because stations are the costliest part of a deep tube line, and also they were aiming for an 'express' rather than 'local' kind of service, this far out from Central London.By the mid-1950s, howwever, an alternative south of Victoria had emerged: the new deep tube line would have gone from Victoria through Chelsea to Fulham Broadway, and then come to the surface and taken over the Wimbledon branch of the District Line. In 1958 the decision was made to revert to the original Brixton idea, but potential traffic south of Brixton dodn't justify going beyond that point - though, as David Fairthorne mentioned in his post, going as far as Streatham only was considered. |
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| (646190) | |
Re: extend the Victoria line to Croydon?(LU) |
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Posted by fytton on Wed Jul 9 04:31:52 2008, in response to extend the Victoria line to Croydon?(LU), posted by shiznit1987 on Sun Jul 6 09:46:28 2008. 'I could forsee extending it to Croydon and running buses over there to serve South/Southeast London'In fact, direct bus services from points east of Croydon into central Croydon were cut back somewhat when the Tramlink was built, as the LRV service is superior to buses in speed and comfort, and a bus interchange at Addington Village Tramlink station was provided. If the Victria Line were ever extended, it should connect with buses going south and west at West Croydon, where the bus station is, and with the Tramlink at East Croydon for passengers going east. East Croydon also has better train services than West Croydon, including direct services to Gatwick Airport and many south coast towns. |
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| (646426) | |
Re: extend the Victoria line to Croydon?(LU) |
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Posted by David Fairthorne on Wed Jul 9 14:39:16 2008, in response to Re: extend the Victoria line to Croydon?(LU), posted by fytton on Wed Jul 9 04:21:47 2008. Thanks for that interesting information, Fytton. I didn't know about the alternative schemes, or the book. |
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| (646448) | |
Re: extend the Victoria line to Croydon?(LU) |
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Posted by David Fairthorne on Wed Jul 9 15:34:38 2008, in response to Re: extend the Victoria line to Croydon?(LU), posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Jul 8 21:42:08 2008. But it still amazes me that someone who was there, actually posts here.Wado, you are very kind. You make me feel proud to have been associated, even in a small way, with such a successful project. I was interviewed for the job by a statistician named Mr. Menzler. He was head of the planning department. Actually the "planning department" would have been better named the "statistical department". Mr. Menzler asked me a question about sports, and I told him that I was no good at them; he then confided to me that my answer was too candid but he hired me anyhow! |
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Re: extend the Victoria line to Croydon?(LU) |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Jul 9 17:13:30 2008, in response to Re: extend the Victoria line to Croydon?(LU), posted by fytton on Mon Jul 7 05:46:11 2008. Various Tube extensions south of the Thames have been discussed over time; one issue is the loading of the lines. The Victoria Line loads very heavily already, so extending the Bakerloo Line from Elephant & Castle or the Northern Line (Charing Cross branch) from Kennington southwards might be better idea.The Victoria Line loadings wouldn't be a problem if they ever built that Chelney Line to divide the disaster that is Victoria station(s) between two lines. But the Northern Line is pointing in a far better direction anyway -- the Victoria Line would be more use for the A215 corridor than the A23 corridor. |
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