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United House Wrecking

Posted by sloth on Tue Jun 17 08:55:28 2008

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I've read that United House Wrecking of Stamford, CT, has-- (or had as of 2004)-- what is described as an "IND subway car", used as a storage shed, on the property. Does anyone know which car this is, and if it still exists there?

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(634951)

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Jun 17 09:09:51 2008, in response to United House Wrecking, posted by sloth on Tue Jun 17 08:55:28 2008.

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You must mean #1144 which was purchased and shipped to Great Britain and eventually became a cafeteria at a train museum.

CLICK THE LINK from nycsubway.org

Bill Newkirk"

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by sloth on Tue Jun 17 09:16:24 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Jun 17 09:09:51 2008.

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yes, thank you. i read this in a library discard on weird tourist attractions of the NYC area, but no further specifics were provided...

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(634965)

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by fytton on Tue Jun 17 10:03:37 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Jun 17 09:09:51 2008.

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It is not clear whether the IND R6 car no. 1144 is still at the Buckinghamshire Railway Centre. The photo on NYCSubway.org dates from 1998, and the Centre has had quite a lot of development since then, including dismantling the old Oxford (Rewley Road) station building and re-assembling it at their site to use as a museum. The car isn't mentioned or pictured on the BRC website currently. The Centre's not far from where I live; I must go over there and have a look for that car sometime.

Fytton (Bedford, England)

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(634966)

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jun 17 10:06:46 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by sloth on Tue Jun 17 09:16:24 2008.

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I don't understand how #1144 can be the answer to what you are asking about.

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(634967)

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by fytton on Tue Jun 17 10:08:49 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Jun 17 09:09:51 2008.

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How do you know that the one shipped to England was the same one United House Wrecking had?

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(634970)

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jun 17 10:11:39 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by fytton on Tue Jun 17 10:08:49 2008.

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And wasn't it shipped years ago? The OP mentioned 2004.

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by fytton on Tue Jun 17 10:16:20 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by fytton on Tue Jun 17 10:03:37 2008.

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O.K., further research into the depths of the Buckinghamshire Railway Centre's website demonstrates that R6 1144 *is* still there, and is now used as a messroom for volunteers. But it almost certainly *isn't* the car from United House Wrecking, since it has been in the UK for nearly 30 years.

Quote from the BRC website:

'1144 was withdrawn for scrapping in 1976/7 along with the rest of its type. However, in 1978/9 fate intervened and it was purchased by a northern brewery and shipped to England for conversion as an "American Diner" called "Zaks on the Tracks" at a club in Stockton-on-Tees. It was in service for about eight years, when Whitbread Breweries took the club over as a pub, and Zaks became surplus to their requirements. They generously donated it to the Society where it was put into use as part of the refreshment facilities. With the commissioning of the new restaurant in Rewley Road, it is now in use as a Working Members Mess facility. Although it is altered internally, many of the original features remain, including advertisements, notices and maps of the New York Subway.

It arrived at Quainton in January 1991 and was formally presented to the Society by Mr. D. M. Thomas, Managing Director of Whitbread Inns on 21 April. Participants in the ceremony included guests from the now closed American Air Base at Upper Heyford. The New York Transit Museum was astounded to find that this car, 1144, existed, as it was listed as scrapped in the 1970s. More details and history of all New York subway cars can be found can be found on the nycsubway.org website.'

Allan S. Berlin is credited with providing this information - is that 'Allan' the subchatter?

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(634972)

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jun 17 10:18:38 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by fytton on Tue Jun 17 10:16:20 2008.

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R6 1144 *is* still there, and is now used as a messroom for volunteers.

I initially read that as "restroom" and was going to post about that, but good thing I read it again to be sure!

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(634981)

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by William A. Padron on Tue Jun 17 10:35:01 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by fytton on Tue Jun 17 10:16:20 2008.

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Well, I remember actually seeing and photographing R-6 #1144, when it was at United House Wrecking in Stamford, in the early 1980's, thus still on the property. Inside the long-detrucked car were a lot of stuff (including certain bathroom fixtures) that was used almost like a shed.

There was even a large pair of ironcast gates leaning against the car body. The funny thing about is that I actually rode #1144 when it went into service as a put-in Nostalgia Special (taking the place of the D-Types originally scheduled to run) in 1976.

-William A. Padron
["HH | Fulton St. Local"]


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(634984)

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Tue Jun 17 10:36:15 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jun 17 10:06:46 2008.

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you lack the ability to underestand a lot of things

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jun 17 10:43:44 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Tue Jun 17 10:36:15 2008.

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False, I was correct about it not being relevant.

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jun 17 10:45:50 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by William A. Padron on Tue Jun 17 10:35:01 2008.

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Whoa, so it is the same one, but that the book was incorrect about it still being there in 2004, and Bill Newkirk didn't exactly explain the relationship or the book's error. Thanks.

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by monorail on Tue Jun 17 12:01:14 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jun 17 10:18:38 2008.

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you read it as a restroom cause your mind is in there......

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by monorail on Tue Jun 17 12:02:09 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jun 17 10:45:50 2008.

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still on your ego trip?

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by BMT Guy on Tue Jun 17 12:04:47 2008, in response to United House Wrecking, posted by sloth on Tue Jun 17 08:55:28 2008.

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I've also heard that United House Wreckers used to have alot of loose R-1 IND parts for sale to the general public like straphandles, door handles, sealed beams, rattan seats, etc. This was some time ago and I suspect none of these 'artifacts' are still available for sale. I guess they were stripped from the R-1 they used to own.

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(635039)

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Jun 17 12:19:56 2008, in response to United House Wrecking, posted by sloth on Tue Jun 17 08:55:28 2008.

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The car was gone before 2004.

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by William A. Padron on Tue Jun 17 14:27:18 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by BMT Guy on Tue Jun 17 12:04:47 2008.

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Yeah, they sure did...any salvage part that came off any scrapped R-1/9's over the years was put on sale by them. While I did visited the place there several times, I only remember purchasing two number plates [boards] back in the 1980's from them: R-4 #558 and R-6 #1238.

United House Wrecking used to be located about a ten-to-fifteen minute walk west of the Metro-North Stamford station back then. I seem to recall that they moved elsewhere to a location near the New Cannan branch, but checking their website a few years ago, they did not listed any such New York City subway car parts memorabillia.

-William A. Padron
["'EE'|'Via Broadway'"]


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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by sloth on Tue Jun 17 18:53:48 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jun 17 10:11:39 2008.

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that's where i got 2004, but it was a lazy job of reading the article, the car is described as already sold.

http://www.furnituretoday.com/article/CA417465.html?display=Market+Daily


articles from 1984 and 1987-- http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=united+house+wrecking+subway+car
seem to claim that the car was on-property then.



but it seems 1144 was in two places at once....

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jun 17 21:13:00 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by fytton on Tue Jun 17 10:16:20 2008.

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I'm relieved 1144 still exists. I was about to go on a rant about how we here in America sent you Brits one of our finest pieces of engineering (an R1-9 car) and one day you chaps just say:

"Well, jolly good!! Let's get rid of that Yank rubbish!" without so much as offering it back.

(I'm kidding. While this would have been a terrible mistake on the part of the museum, it'd be no reflection on you or any other subject of the U.K. who had nothing to do with it. Would still have been a fun rant, though)

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Jun 17 22:40:19 2008, in response to United House Wrecking, posted by sloth on Tue Jun 17 08:55:28 2008.

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I photographed #1144 at United House Wrecking through a closed gate using a telephoto lens. The date on the slide is May 1981. Hope this helps.

Bill "Newkirk"

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by fytton on Wed Jun 18 07:21:47 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by William A. Padron on Tue Jun 17 10:35:01 2008.

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'Well, I remember actually seeing and photographing R-6 #1144, when it was at United House Wrecking in Stamford, in the early 1980's...'

Allan Berlin's data on the Buckinghamshire Railway Centre's website says it came to England '1978/79', so there is a slight incosistency of dates here.

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by fytton on Wed Jun 18 07:23:52 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by sloth on Tue Jun 17 18:53:48 2008.

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'but it seems 1144 was in two places at once....'

Could NYCT have done one of its bits of legerdemain with car numbers??







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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 18 07:57:03 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by fytton on Wed Jun 18 07:23:52 2008.

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As Bugs Bunny would say, "Hmmmmmmmmm ... COULD be!" :)

There WERE ways to determine what an actual arnine car number was, despite "shops" playing peekaboo with number plates ... there was a metal plate under the car, CED would ALWAYS repaint the interior of an arnine when they swapped outside number plates, and they'd write the "new" car number in magic marker over the paint to coincide with whatever the outside plates SAID it was. Heh.

Unbeknownst though to the new LIRR folks who took over the railroad I worked for, those of us who KNEW our arnines knew to look for the DECALS underneath so many layers of paint. If you unhinged, and opened, the control stand front cover, CED knew which car it REALLY was without having to go underneath!

PERFECTLY plausible possibility therefore that BOTH cars had the same number and one of them was actually THAT number! Now choose! (grin)

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by Allan on Wed Jun 18 20:08:13 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by fytton on Tue Jun 17 10:16:20 2008.

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Yes, that is me.

It was a number of years back and all I did was clean up and correct the NYC Subway related data that they already had in their narrative.

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by Allan on Wed Jun 18 20:10:38 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by fytton on Wed Jun 18 07:21:47 2008.

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The 1978/79 date was in the narrative before I did my "re-write". I am sure the BRC would know when they got it.

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Jun 18 20:53:04 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 18 07:57:03 2008.

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Is it true that 100 swapped numbers with 190 (or some other number) at one time? Of course, the lack of sills under the doors on 100 is a dead giveaway.

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 18 21:16:07 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Jun 18 20:53:04 2008.

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Not sure if it was 190, but it was another car with a trailing 0 in the number. And that wasn't the only one. Often, when I'd take a set out, I'd have one car number on the plaques, another car number on the controller, and yet another number under the paint. Since the gap sheets in transit required entry of a lead car number and I had to keep my little notebook, HAD to ask what to do. Answer was whatever number was on the outside of the car was what was written on the gap sheets, so I was constantly amused at the mismatches when I'd take a train out. :)

As long as stupidvision couldn't tell the difference, we didn't rock the boat. Heh.

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Jun 19 08:11:20 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 18 21:16:07 2008.

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I trust 1689 never underwent a number swap.



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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jun 19 14:34:11 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Jun 19 08:11:20 2008.

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Probably did ... whenever they actually GOT a car working, they would go back and try to give it back its proper number once they spotted the real one. CED did this trickery because management demanded that cars sit in the shop for no more than X amount of time, and because the original MTA was a bunch of rubes, CED would ensure that those cars went out on TIME ... at least according to the paperwork.

They were WAY short of equipment at the time, and when a repair facility is pressed to provide "throughput" then you're going to try to knock out as many "easy ones" as you can to "make service" and put the "basket cases and shop queens" on a back track somewhere until you can get to it. Since MTA saw car number in, date, car number out ... much less hassle and cars came in and out. Stragglers got other numbers and plates went round and round until the dogs finally moved under their own power again. =)

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Jun 19 19:51:50 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jun 19 14:34:11 2008.

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I think it's safe to assume that Shoreline's 1689 is the real McCoy.:)

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Re: United House Wrecking

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jun 19 23:04:53 2008, in response to Re: United House Wrecking, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Jun 19 19:51:50 2008.

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I'd say so ... just heard from someone who reminded me of where the stamping of the REAL car number actually is ... and as I remembered, a location where an MTA suit would NEVER be observed looking at the stamping without qwapping their pants. :)

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