Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!

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Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!
Posted by #7 Flushing* on Fri Jan 28 10:38:56 2005, in response to Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Jan 27 23:01:15 2005.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr They were showing it on WNBC.
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Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!
Posted by FYBklyn1959* on Fri Jan 28 11:22:24 2005, in response to Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Jan 27 23:07:40 2005.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr Report in today's L. A. Times said both did, although the engineer of the southbound train, which suffered the most damage is severly injured.
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Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!
Posted by NIMBYkiller* on Fri Jan 28 12:20:05 2005, in response to Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri Jan 28 11:22:24 2005.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr That's increadible. I'm amazed the engineer of that train that hit the UP loco(that's the one that hit the jeep, right?) survived. His entire cab was obliterated, along with the rest of the car back to about the doors.
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Re: Suicide Attempt (LA train derailment)
Posted by Jersey Mike* on Fri Jan 28 12:26:38 2005, in response to Re: Suicide Attempt (LA train derailment), posted by S33 Hauppage on Wed Jan 26 13:17:38 2005.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr Since this person was trying to kill himself wouldn't putting him to death just be giving him what he wanted?? I think he should be put in a padded room and kept alive for as long as possible.
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Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 10 killed in MetroLink Crash!
Posted by ntrainride* on Sat Jan 29 21:57:50 2005, in response to Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 10 killed in MetroLink Crash!, posted by Peter Rosa on Wed Jan 26 15:47:53 2005.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr Was there any possible coherent reason for you to post that? For all the railing against those "suit-covered anus" types you subject us to, you sure are startin' to sound like one yourself. Boy do I wish this joint had a killfile. I keep forgetting to not click on your posts. You seem to revel in posting non-sequiter comments. As if you never really fully understand what's being discussed so you just pop stuff out to sound, uh, cool or something. Once in a while it ain't like that but mainly, that's you.
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Re: THE LATEST (or some of the latest) on the ''24'' Copycat Crash
Posted by ntrainride* on Sat Jan 29 22:13:15 2005, in response to THE LATEST (or some of the latest) on the "24" Copycat Crash, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Wed Jan 26 16:08:06 2005.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr Sigh. Sorry to be sounding like a crank and all...but if you're just cutting and pasting links on this board, is it all that hard to type < a href = " at the beginning of it, then another " at the end of that link address you just pasted, then another > right after that, then pasting the link again after that, then < / a > to end it? (without the spaces I used to show it here) It really only takes a few seconds and then we have an easily accessible link to click.
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Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 10 killed in MetroLink Crash!
Posted by Peter Rosa* on Sat Jan 29 22:39:26 2005, in response to Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 10 killed in MetroLink Crash!, posted by ntrainride on Sat Jan 29 21:57:50 2005.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr Was there any possible coherent reason for you to post that? For all the railing against those "suit-covered anus" types you subject us to, you sure are startin' to sound like one yourself. Boy do I wish this joint had a killfile. I keep forgetting to not click on your posts. You seem to revel in posting non-sequiter comments. As if you never really fully understand what's being discussed so you just pop stuff out to sound, uh, cool or something. Once in a while it ain't like that but mainly, that's you. What was so bad about posting some of the "Straight Outta Compton" lyrics? It's not like I flamed or insulted anyone. What's the big deal? My LIRR/NYCT blog
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Re: THE LATEST (or some of the latest) on the ''24'' Copycat Crash
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Sun Jan 30 01:41:22 2005, in response to Re: THE LATEST (or some of the latest) on the ''24'' Copycat Crash, posted by ntrainride on Sat Jan 29 22:13:15 2005.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr That's how I feel, but others just don't care about doing the right thing. They want to be selfish.
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Re: THE LATEST (or some of the latest) on the ''24'' Copycat Crash
Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Sun Jan 30 03:40:44 2005, in response to Re: THE LATEST (or some of the latest) on the ''24'' Copycat Crash, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jan 30 01:41:22 2005. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr Okay, not true anymore :-p
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Re: THE LATEST (or some of the latest) on the ''24'' Copycat Crash
Posted by ntrainride on Sun Jan 30 11:13:00 2005, in response to Re: THE LATEST (or some of the latest) on the ''24'' Copycat Crash, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Sun Jan 30 03:40:44 2005. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr ...okay, then I guess I'll shut my trap about it. :-}
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Re: THE LATEST (or some of the latest) on the ''24'' Copycat Crash
Posted by Richard Rabinowitz* on Sun Jan 30 11:18:56 2005, in response to Re: THE LATEST (or some of the latest) on the ''24'' Copycat Crash, posted by ntrainride on Sun Jan 30 11:13:00 2005.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr whatever :) seen any mystical chix yet? :)
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Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!
Posted by FYBklyn1959* on Mon Jan 31 09:30:13 2005, in response to Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Jan 28 12:20:05 2005.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr All I can think of, as soon as he saw that the train was going to hit the jeep, he went BIE and then bailed from the cab.
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Trial date to be set (Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!)
Posted by Easy* on Sat Jan 5 01:07:09 2008, in response to Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!, posted by R33 9139 on Wed Jan 26 10:16:16 2005.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Justice doesn't seem too swift... KNBC LOS ANGELES -- A trial date is scheduled to be set Friday for the man accused of parking his vehicle at a rail crossing and causing a deadly train derailment. Juan Alvarez is accused in the January 2005 derailment in Glendale that killed 11 people. Authorities said Alvarez intentionally parked his Jeep Grand Cherokee in the path of the train and fled before impact. Investigators said he intended to attract the attention of his estranged wife. Two Metrolink trains -- going in opposite directions -- derailed, killing 11 people and injuring more than 180 others. The collision at the Glendale-Los Angeles city line was the deadliest U.S. train crash since 1999. Southbound train No. 100 from Ventura County left Moorpark at 5:07 the morning of Jan. 26. At 6:01 a.m., it struck the SUV left on the tracks. The impact caused train No. 100 to derail, hit a parked Union Pacific locomotive to the right, and, as it jackknifed, strike northbound Metrolink train No. 901, which had left Union Station in downtown Los Angeles at 5:48 a.m.
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Re: Trial date to be set (Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!)
Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Sat Jan 5 06:44:32 2008, in response to Trial date to be set (Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!), posted by Easy on Sat Jan 5 01:07:09 2008. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d ................life ...................
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Re: Trial date to be set (Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!)
Posted by Broadway Lion* on Sat Jan 5 11:21:24 2008, in response to Trial date to be set (Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!), posted by Easy on Sat Jan 5 01:07:09 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d This does not say what sort of a trial is underway. Is this his criminal trial on murder charges, or is this a civil trial for tort wrongs suffered by victims? For a criminal trial yes it seems a long time. For a tort trial it is about normal. But if said alleged criminal was delaying the trial for his own purposes, or if the trial was delayed for hospitalization and evaluation the this would not be unusual either. LION SAYS: Eliminate "Not Guilty by reason of Insanity" The proper plea should be changed to read "Guilty under circumstances of Insanity." Either way, the defendant is admitting to the actions alleged. But under the "Guilty" plea, the trial moves directly to the sentencing phase, and the defendant is remanded to psychiatric custody where proper treatments are available, and if found to be psychiatrically competent can then be transfered to a prison facility. This saves the state tons of hassle and money, gets criminals out of the judicial system faster, gets psychiatrically needy individuals into treatment more quickly, Takes the adversarial positions out of the proceedings, and eliminates a major mockery of justice. ROARING~!
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Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash! - Criminal Trial
Posted by Easy on Tue Apr 29 21:38:11 2008, in response to Re: Trial date to be set (Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!), posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Jan 5 11:21:24 2008. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I'm guessing that he is convicted of something less than 1st degree murder. I doubt that he intended to derail the train. How could anyone have known that would happen? Trial begins in most devastating wreck in Metrolink history Juan Manuel Alvarez does not dispute that his actions led to the tragic Metrolink train collision three years ago in which 11 people were killed and more than 180 injured. What he does contest is that he intended to harm anybody other than himself. The issue of whether the 29-year-old Compton man willfully set out to derail a train, commit arson, maim and kill people will be at the core of arguments that a jury of three men and nine women will begin to hear today as Alvarez's trial gets underway. If convicted of first-degree murder, Alvarez could face the death penalty. On the morning of Jan. 26, 2005, Alvarez parked his Jeep Grand Cherokee on railroad tracks about half a mile south of downtown Glendale. He ran from the vehicle shortly before a southbound Metrolink commuter train slammed into it. The train derailed, struck a parked Union Pacific freight train and then collided with a northbound Metrolink passenger train. It was the most devastating wreck in Metrolink history, authorities said. Alvarez's intent is important in a legal sense: If he meant to kill passengers on the train, he could be found guilty of first-degree murder. But even if jurors do not find that intent, Alvarez could be convicted of second-degree murder if it can be shown that his actions created a high probability of death, and that he knew of the risks associated with parking his vehicle on the tracks. Attorney Thomas W. Kielty, who represents Alvarez, said his client's tragic deed was a failed attempt at suicide. He said Alvarez changed his mind about killing himself and tried to remove his Jeep from the tracks, but the tires only spun into the gravel. At the last moment, he said, Alvarez jumped out of the way of the oncoming train. Alvarez never intended to hurt anybody, Kielty said. "If Juan Alvarez's intent was to commit suicide, then there is no question that he's not guilty of the felonies," Kielty said. "In a civil and moral sense it was his fault, and there's no denying that. But there is no first-degree murder, because he did not intend to derail and burn the train." Kielty said that Alvarez, who he said has a history of mental illness and suicide attempts, would take the witness stand. At the time of the incident, Alvarez was depressed and having marital problems, his lawyer said. Other witnesses, Kielty said, would be called to testify about Alvarez's state of mind before and after the train crash. One witness saw Alvarez fall to his knees and cry "hysterically" when he learned people had perished in the wreck, according to court papers filed by defense attorneys. Alvarez's lawyers also say the defendant thought the oncoming train would be a freight train, not a passenger train. During a recent court hearing, the judge in the case suggested that Alvarez's kneeling outburst could have meant, "Yeah. Thank God it worked the way I planned." In the aftermath of the calamity, Kielty said, Alvarez was overwhelmed with regret and stabbed himself in the chest in yet another suicide attempt. Kielty argues that Alvarez could not have foreseen the chain-reaction crash that would result from his parking on the tracks. "He's a mentally ill, flying-under-the-radar, street-level meth addict," Kielty said. "He just wanted to kill himself." Sandi Gibbons, a spokeswoman for Los Angeles County Dist. Atty. Steve Cooley, declined to comment on the case, saying that "it would be improper for us to be making any out-of-court comments at this crucial time in the proceeding." Prosecutors, in court papers, have argued that evidence in the case refutes Alvarez's claim of a suicide bid. They alleged that he doused both the exterior and interior of his vehicle with gasoline, set the parking brake and left his vehicle on the tracks in front of the Metrolink train. The intensity of the fire that resulted from the crash "consumed" the front of the train and hampered law enforcement officials from assisting people who were screaming for help, according to the testimony of one law enforcement officer. Another officer said the hand brake recovered from the wrecked vehicle had been "engaged in the up position," a fact prosecutors say disproves Alvarez's claims that he tried to move his car before the train struck. In a parallel civil case, 61 victims are suing Metrolink and the Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority for liability. Their case includes arguments that safety measures, such as a gate, would have prevented Alvarez from getting onto the tracks; and that a controversial "push-pull" system for operating trains enhanced the risk of death and injury to the passengers. J. Clark Aristei, plaintiffs' liaison counsel for the Plaintiffs' Steering Committee, a team of lawyers representing people who have filed personal injury and wrongful-death cases, expressed concern that the criminal trial might fail to adequately resolve key questions that are at the core of the civil case. These include how the tragedy happened, what caused it, who's responsible and how it could have been prevented. As a result, the conclusion could be drawn that "whatever happens in the criminal case is it, so why are we having a civil trial?" Aristei said. The civil trial is scheduled to begin in August. Aristei said his clients' feelings about Alvarez span "the full range of human emotions" from "forgiving Mr. Alvarez, to wanting to see him suffer the maximum penalty." ann.simmons@latimes.com Times staff writer Victoria Kim contributed to this report.
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Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash! - Criminal Trial
Posted by JayZeeBMT* on Tue Apr 29 22:02:20 2008, in response to Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash! - Criminal Trial, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 29 21:38:11 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d It's not a far stretch of the imagination to suggest that placing a two-ton obstruction on the ROW might create a serious risk of derailment. Whether or not the defendant could have reasonably assessed the risks created by his actions is the difference between criminal negligence and manslaughter...
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Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash! - Criminal Trial
Posted by Easy* on Tue Apr 29 22:04:45 2008, in response to Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash! - Criminal Trial, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Apr 29 22:02:20 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I think that they're saying that it's the difference between 2nd and 1st degree murder. It won't be manslaughter just because he didn't know. It definitely won't be negligence.
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Re: Trial date to be set (Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!)
Posted by BMTLines on Tue Apr 29 22:13:54 2008, in response to Re: Trial date to be set (Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!), posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Jan 5 11:21:24 2008. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d remanded to psychiatric custody where proper treatments are available, and if found to be psychiatrically competent can then be transfered to a prison facility I find that troubling - why should a person who had no control over what he did be punished after he is cured?
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Re: Trial date to be set (Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!)
Posted by Easy on Tue Apr 29 22:24:45 2008, in response to Re: Trial date to be set (Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!), posted by BMTLines on Tue Apr 29 22:13:54 2008. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Because he was the direct cause of his psychiatric state through his repeated use of illegal drugs.
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Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!
Posted by lbt 9415* on Wed Apr 30 02:49:00 2008, in response to Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!, posted by Peter Rosa on Wed Jan 26 10:23:12 2005.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d from what I remember that day on the Fox News report that morning, there was a Southbound Metrolink Train ( Moorpark-LAUS ), a northbound Metrolink train ( LAUS - Burbank Airport ), and a UPRR train parked on a siding with no crew on board.
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Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!
Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car* on Wed Apr 30 09:16:47 2008, in response to Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!, posted by lbt 9415 on Wed Apr 30 02:49:00 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Did the engineer die? I think 11 died here, due to an IMBECIL who put his car on the tracks. Those cab cars are sensitive, and have a high center of gravity due to double decks. Had the loco been up front, this story wouldn't be news, the car would be completely smashed out of the way. The way i read it, the car got logged under the railcar. They should put plows on those trains to prevent that, like cow catchers.
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Re: Trial date to be set (Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!)
Posted by randyo on Wed Apr 30 16:12:07 2008, in response to Re: Trial date to be set (Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!), posted by Easy on Tue Apr 29 22:24:45 2008. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d This plot was modified and showed up on a recent Law and Order episode. Of course, due to the NYC location of the program, the train became a Metro North commuter train. Unfortunately, I don't rcall the outcome of the trial, but it shows up on cable TV from time to time.
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Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!
Posted by WillD* on Wed Apr 30 17:44:02 2008, in response to Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!, posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Wed Apr 30 09:16:47 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Those cab cars are sensitive, and have a high center of gravity due to double decks. They're unfortunately out of date. According to the USDOT's Structures and Dynamics Division the assymetric transition between the middle and lower level of a multilevel car, such as the Bombardier Bilevels operated by Metrolink, create saw toothed deformation and jackknifing of the carbody even at relatively low collision speeds. The recommendation from the USDOT is that Metrolink procure new bilevel cab cars with crash energy managment segments built into the design to absorb energy before the trailing BBD Bilevels are adversely effected. Those new bilevel cab cars are now being ordered from Korean builder Rotem and will seek to absorb crash energy in the middle level before assymetric loading becomes a problem at the deck transition. Crush Analyses of Multi-Level Equipment 611 KB Had the loco been up front, this story wouldn't be news, the car would be completely smashed out of the way. Completely and utterly false. Freight locomotives weighing more than twice what a Metrolink F59PH weighs have been pushed off the track by collisions with cars lying on the tracks. Not only is full-time locomotive-forward operation infeasible, it is no safer than cab car-forward operation. Based on prior accidents the NTSB has concluded there is a far greater danger to cab cars from accidents between trains and thus has been recommending Positive Train Control systems like CBTC, ACSES, ACES, and so on since the 1996 Secaucus wreck. http://www.ntsb.gov/speeches/s050720.htm They should put plows on those trains to prevent that, like cow catchers. A plow is not going to do a damn thing but give the car something to get caught under and provide a point for the car frame to push up under the frame when it hits the grade crossing. Keep in mind that the car was up the railroad in the direction of the impacting train from the crossing, it wasn't nicely placed to impact the frame designed to take that force, it struck the pilot. For one thing a plow would try to push the car in two different directions with the result that it'd likely stay centered on the plow and probably still end up under the front truck. Secondly even if you catch a car with just half the plow and are able to push it aside eventually there will be some component on the underbody of the car which catches on the rail and prevents further lateral movement. Again the chances are good it ends up under the truck and the train ends up derailed.
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Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!
Posted by Easy* on Wed Apr 30 17:57:00 2008, in response to Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash!, posted by WillD on Wed Apr 30 17:44:02 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The engineers seem to think that it's more dangerous for them in the cab first position from the conversations that I've had. I would guess that the same would hold true for the customers sitting in that area although that very front part of the car is always closed off on Metrolink.
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Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash! Life without parole
Posted by Easy* on Tue Jul 15 22:51:11 2008, in response to Re: Breaking NEWS! AT least 3 killed in MetroLink Crash! - Criminal Trial, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 29 21:38:11 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d LA Times Jury calls for life in prison without parole for Metrolink killer By Ann Simmons and Jack Leonard, Los Angeles Times Staff Writers 2:16 PM PDT, July 15, 2008 Jurors today decided that Juan Manuel Alvarez, a former Compton laborer, should spend the rest of his life in prison for causing the deadly Metrolink crash three years ago. Alvarez smiled broadly and spoke quietly to one of his defense attorneys after a court clerk read the verdicts in a packed courtroom. The jury reached its decision after deliberating for less than 3 1/2 hours. The same panel of nine women and three men last month found Alvarez guilty on 11 counts of first-degree murder. The 29-year-old former construction worker was also found guilty of arson and a special circumstance allegation that made him eligible for the death penalty. Under the life sentence handed down by the jury, Alvarez is not eligible for parole. The tragedy unfolded in the early hours of Jan. 2, 2005, when Alvarez parked his sport utility vehicle on railway tracks near Glendale and fled. A Metrolink passenger train plowed into the vehicle, struck a parked freight train, and slammed into an oncoming commuter train. Along with the 11 killed, at least 180 people were injured. During his eight-week trial, Alvarez testified that he never meant to hurt anyone but himself, describing his actions as an aborted suicide attempt. He apologized to relatives of the victims and survivors of the crash, and asked for forgiveness. Jurors heard details of Alvarez's troubled childhood, his drug addiction, paranoia and the several attempts to end his own life. In closing arguments in the penalty phase earlier this week, defense attorney Michael Belter told the panel that justice would be served by giving his client "a sentence in the penitentiary for the rest of his life." Belter emphasized that Alvarez's tortured childhood, mental instability and addiction to methamphetamine had contributed to his client's demise and were circumstances that led to the rail tragedy. Alvarez had been "beaten like a dog" as a young child, Belter told jurors, and "literally raised in a home of chaos and neglect." He had urged jurors to consider Alvarez's positive attributes, such as when he was not on drugs, he was described by relatives as a kind and loving father. But throughout the trial, prosecutors said Alvarez was a liar and a schemer who was obsessed with getting attention. On the day of the crash, prosecutors said Alvarez wanted to cause a spectacle in an attempt to win back the affections of his estranged wife. They rejected the suggestion that he was trying to commit suicide. Before he drove his vehicle onto the tracks, Alvarez acknowledged during his trial testimony that he had thoughts about killing his wife at her job. But she was not at work at the time. Assistant Dist. Atty. John Monaghan told the jury during his closing arguments in the penalty phase that Alvarez did not deserve their leniency. He said Alvarez had done "a terrible thing" and he should "pay for that with his life." Prosecutors also argued that Alvarez's alleged poor psychological health and troubled upbringing could not be used as "an excuse" or "a crutch" for his actions later in life. He had urged the jury not to forget the victims and the effect of their deaths on family members, who offered tearful testimony during the penalty phase about the torment they suffered without their loved ones.
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