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| Re: G Train Terminating at Church Street (554375) | |
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| (556803) | |
Re: G Train Terminating at Church Street |
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Posted by Russ on Sun Jan 20 17:21:06 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by The Port of Authority on Wed Jan 16 18:24:34 2008. In any case, Church Avenue is a much more effective terminus for the G than Smith/9th is. F service won't back up as a result of fumigating G trains on the southbound local track.How will this be different at Church St.? |
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| (556804) | |
Re: G Train Terminating at Church Street |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 20 17:23:36 2008, in response to Re: G Train Terminating at Church Street, posted by Russ on Sun Jan 20 17:21:06 2008. How will this be different at Church St.?Because Church St is in Manhattan? |
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| (556810) | |
Re: G Train Terminating at Church Ave |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Jan 20 17:44:54 2008, in response to Re: G Train Terminating at Church Street, posted by Russ on Sun Jan 20 17:21:06 2008. look at a track map. there are relay tracks beyond the station |
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| (556816) | |
Re: G Train Terminating at Church Street |
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Posted by Russ on Sun Jan 20 17:54:23 2008, in response to Re: G Train Terminating at Church Street, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 20 17:23:36 2008. Brain fart |
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| (556818) | |
Re: G Train Terminating at Church Ave |
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Posted by Russ on Sun Jan 20 17:55:34 2008, in response to Re: G Train Terminating at Church Ave, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Jan 20 17:44:54 2008. look at a track map. there are relay tracks beyond the station<.i>Does that mean that G trains don't have to be fumigated at the platform? |
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| (556819) | |
Re: G Train Terminating at Church Ave |
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Posted by Russ on Sun Jan 20 17:56:27 2008, in response to Re: G Train Terminating at Church Ave, posted by Russ on Sun Jan 20 17:55:34 2008. Fixd formatting:look at a track map. there are relay tracks beyond the station Does that mean that G trains don't have to be fumigated at the platform? |
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| (556825) | |
Re: G Train Terminating at Church Ave |
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Posted by Railman718 on Sun Jan 20 17:59:45 2008, in response to Re: G Train Terminating at Church Ave, posted by Russ on Sun Jan 20 17:56:27 2008. Does that mean that G trains don't have to be fumigated at the platform?You have to "relay" a passenger train at its last stop the train get cleaned out period no if's and's or but's... |
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| (556832) | |
Re: G Train Terminating at Church Ave |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Jan 20 18:07:20 2008, in response to Re: G Train Terminating at Church Ave, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Jan 20 17:44:54 2008. look at a track map. there are relay tracks beyond the stationThat just means you can hold four G trains for northbound F trains to pass (rather than one). Otherwise, it's schematically identical, and will still require fumigation. |
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| (556860) | |
Re: G Train Terminating at Church Ave |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 20 18:37:06 2008, in response to Re: G Train Terminating at Church Ave, posted by Railman718 on Sun Jan 20 17:59:45 2008. Right, but the (F) train can use a different TRACK at that platform, whereas at Smith-9th it cannot do thus.ROAR |
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| (556862) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 20 18:40:18 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Jan 20 16:55:20 2008. There is absolutely NO WAY an sort of el will ever be built in NYC again, on 3rd Ave, or anywhere in NYC. It's hard enough to even get the 2nd Ave subway opposition taken care of, and after construction, that will be out of sight. There is absolutely NO WAY an el will ever be built anywhere in the city. |
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| (556866) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 20 18:46:02 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 20 18:40:18 2008. Be not so certain!Elevated subways do have certain advantages and there are many places where they can (and maybe should) be built. ROAR |
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| (556869) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 20 18:53:57 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 20 18:46:02 2008. and there are many places where they can (and maybe should) be built.Of course but NYC is not one of them, espeically on any sort of regular street. The only place I can see it happening is perhaps, someday far in the future on some highway medians, like the AirTrain on the Van Wyck, but that's where it ends. |
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| (556881) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Jan 20 19:14:46 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 20 18:40:18 2008. I wouldn't be too quick to rule out all elevated subways. Certainly if the design is the typical 1900-era el, forget about it. However, I could easily imagine an AirTrain-type el along a wide street such as Woodhaven Blvd or even Queens Blvd (if it didn't already have a subway underneath it). There are ways to construct elevated rapid transit structures that don't look ugly and/or create urban blight underneath them. |
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| (556890) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 20 19:24:07 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Jan 20 19:14:46 2008. I don't agree completely, but yes, you have a point. However, remember, the original idea someone mentioned was to have this on "3rd Ave". Never in a 1000 years. |
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| (556899) | |
Re: G Train Terminating at Church Ave |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Jan 20 19:40:28 2008, in response to Re: G Train Terminating at Church Ave, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 20 18:37:06 2008. Only if one of them run express north of Church Avenue. |
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| (556948) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 20 21:56:25 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 20 18:53:57 2008. Yes in New York.But you must abandon the idea of a rattling steel structure. Graceful tapered concrete columns and trackways, probably shaped like a "Y", allowing light to the street and without obstruction to traffic, and running quietly. Yes, it can very well happen. ROAR |
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| (556957) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 20 22:54:10 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 20 21:56:25 2008. I don't see it in any of our lifetimes, or that of the next few generations. Not happening. |
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| (556958) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Sun Jan 20 22:58:52 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 20 21:56:25 2008. I still doubt an el would ever be built one Avs 1-8 in Manhattan especially in Midtown or the Uptown. Maybe north of 110th, but I still doubt an el would be build on manhattan. the other 3 boroughs however, is up in the air. |
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| (556959) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 20 23:00:17 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by Grand concourse on Sun Jan 20 22:58:52 2008. Nah... Not in Manhattan. Out in Queens or Brooklyn, new high speed routes. Yeah. It CAN happen.ROAR |
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| (556974) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Sun Jan 20 23:19:15 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 20 23:00:17 2008. I agree, if it is in those two and maybe the Bronx, an el can be built. |
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| (557011) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jan 21 00:19:09 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 20 18:46:02 2008. there is NO such thing as an elevated subway,period. |
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| (557017) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 21 00:56:12 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 20 21:56:25 2008. That is where I got the idea in fact:If as you say it can be done in a way without making too much noise, obstructing traffic and allowing light to still come in, then yes, it can be done. The big key to all of this as noted would be to educate people on these facts, and also explain to them the overall enviormental benefits. Will that be easy? Of course not!! People are WAY too stubborn in a lot of cases, but with more and more people from other countries now living in New York, and with that likely to only increase over time, it may very well bring a new initiative to pull something like this off. With congestion in Manhattan likely to only become worse over time, however, something may need to be done in the next 10 years or so. By then, a rebuilt 3rd Avenue El (to BMT/IND levels) that is two levels and four tracks in addition to the SAS may very well be needed to handle the ever-expanding population in New York, and it may need to be driven to those who otherwise would oppose it that it is necessary for the long-term health of New York as a whole. |
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| (557020) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 21 01:02:43 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 20 19:24:07 2008. Until this past year, I would agree, and it still likely will never happen, however:With enviormental concerns as they are, coupled with numerous other factors including congestion, plus the mystique the old line still has with some over 50 years after it was torn down (35 years in The Bronx), I could see it being rebuilt given we also seem to have much different attitudes towards mass transit now as opposed to 50+ years ago when the El was torn down. |
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| (557025) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 21 01:13:41 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 17 11:04:24 2008. Which is why the M-V combo makes sense:M riders for midtown simply would stay on that train, while those who actually go to lower Manhattan can make a same platform transfer anywhere between Myrtle and Essex, and J riders for midtown can also make a same platform platform transfer anywhere between Myrtle and Essex. Only those actually going to 14th street (if not on 6th avenue) would still be switching to the L in all likelyhood in this format. |
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| (557026) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Mon Jan 21 01:14:25 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 21 00:56:12 2008. And then taht is where Eminent Domain comes in. |
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| (557027) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 21 01:15:26 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 17 18:34:59 2008. Maybe, but:G riders also have the transfer to the 7 train, which those at Queens Plaza DO NOT HAVE. |
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| (557036) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jan 21 02:17:37 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 21 01:02:43 2008. It only has mystique with railbuffs like us and would create more problems then it would solve. Most people in NYC today don't even know that there ever was an El running above 3rd Av. I would oppose such a monstrosity myself. With the future SAS only a block away and the Lex another block to the west, even a Manhattan 3rd Av Subway would not be needed. I would like to see such a subway running under The Bronx's 3rd Av though as an extension of the SAS and expanding the SAS to 4 tracks. |
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| (557038) | |
Re: SAS to the Bronx/four tracks |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 21 02:25:31 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by SMAZ on Mon Jan 21 02:17:37 2008. I agree on the SAS being four tracks, especially if there was a Bronx branch as well. It would make sense to have a branch of the SAS running under 3rd Avenue in the Bronx (with a return to rail service there), as that service is I'm sure sorely missed there. |
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| (557039) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jan 21 02:32:37 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Jan 20 19:14:46 2008. That technology is available and proven, and is very quiet. Miami Metrorail is proof. |
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| (557055) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by Russ on Mon Jan 21 03:59:01 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 21 00:56:12 2008. There will NEVER be another El built in Manhattan. |
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| (557059) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by Russ on Mon Jan 21 05:04:03 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jan 21 00:19:09 2008. Are you willing to bet a jumbo shrimp dinner on that? |
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| (557086) | |
Re: G Train Terminating at Church Ave |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Jan 21 07:59:58 2008, in response to Re: G Train Terminating at Church Ave, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 20 18:37:06 2008. Right, but the (F) train can use a different TRACK at that platform, whereas at Smith-9th it cannot do thus.O RLY? |
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| (557094) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 21 08:16:52 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 21 00:56:12 2008. Dream on, there will never be another el built in Manhattan ever again. |
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| (557096) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 21 08:19:21 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Jan 21 02:32:37 2008. There's a big difference than Miami's Metrorail along Route 1, or any sort of obstruction runnng above 3rd Ave. It's not happening in Manhattan. No way, no how. |
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| (557097) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 21 08:22:01 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 21 01:13:41 2008. Yes, that is exactly it. I actually typed out a whole thing here once comparing the M's Nassau transfers to every line, and why most use the L currently, and why the 6th Ave service would change that for every transfer. |
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| (557102) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by TunnelRat on Mon Jan 21 09:05:34 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by Russ on Mon Jan 21 05:04:03 2008. how `bout a nice cheeseburger platter at jackson hole wyoming{the burger joint,not the town} |
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| (557139) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Jan 21 10:55:56 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 17 10:30:13 2008. "Many M riders have a one seat ride to lower Manhattan."Only on weekdays. On weekends, they must either transfer to the L or J or get in the car and pay for an expensive parking lot if they want to go to Manhattan. |
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| (557189) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by R160 8818 on Mon Jan 21 12:46:59 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Jan 20 16:55:20 2008. Quit dreaming. A 3 track structure was already a pain in the ass. Now you want a double decker structure? Hey gimme some sunlight. |
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| (557193) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Mon Jan 21 12:51:08 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 21 08:22:01 2008. As long asPeople who'd use the M/V combo instead of the L + People transferring at Essex < People who want Nassau in the morning rush, it won't happen. |
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| (557194) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by R160 8818 on Mon Jan 21 12:51:56 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by Grand concourse on Sun Jan 20 23:19:15 2008. Yes, I myself planned a few elevated subways out in Queens, Bklyn and Bronx.The LION will of course like the idea. How about a line running along the LIE down the median? This will connect to the Broadway Line. We could have sound proof structures to mitigate the noise. And I also like the Lion's idea of running the Jamaica el from ENY to 121 directly above Jamaica Ave instead of negotiating a sharp curve near Crescent. I hope the MTA considers the Y structure so that some of us can enjoy the scenes while the residents below could enjoy more sunlight and hopefully less noise with better transit facilities. |
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| (557195) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Mon Jan 21 12:54:19 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Jan 21 10:55:56 2008. Aren't we talking about rush hour? In any case, the M will soon go to Chambers on weekends. |
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| (557199) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Jan 21 13:02:15 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by R160 8818 on Mon Jan 21 12:51:56 2008. How about a line running along the LIE down the median?Expensive. No provision for rail was made. (Robert Moses, quite deliberately). If you're going to build els, methinks they will go through parkland, maybe, or alternatively cut-and-cover. Can't go anywhere near parkland in the most politically connected areas, e.g., Central Park, of course. |
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| (557203) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Mon Jan 21 13:08:30 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Jan 20 16:55:20 2008. People don't like elevated lines anymore. IF you can make it look like the AirTrain JFK right of way, then maybe. |
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| (557229) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Jan 21 14:00:41 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by R160 8818 on Mon Jan 21 12:46:59 2008. Quit dreaming. A 3 track structure was already a pain in the ass. Now you want a double decker structure? Hey gimme some sunlight.The best thing that could have been done to the 2nd and 3rd Av els would have been to plug the Bronx section into a new subway, express from 129th St to 63rd St, then remove the express tracks from the Manhattan Els to let the sunlight in. With the R39s, they would have been really great local transit. |
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| (557234) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 21 14:10:30 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by Kriston Lewis on Mon Jan 21 13:08:30 2008. Yes, and it will only work over a highway median. Even if it looked like AirTrain, it's not running up 3rd Ave. |
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| (557238) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Jan 21 14:12:32 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 21 14:10:30 2008. Even if it looked like AirTrain, it's not running up 3rd Ave.Unless, of course, the trains, stations, and el are all invisible. Then it might just work. |
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| (557239) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 21 14:13:30 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Jan 21 14:00:41 2008. They wanted the els off the Manhattan Avenues, and with good reason. The only bad thing that happened is that the 3rd Ave el was removed before the 2nd Ave subway was built. Had it been required to keep the 3rd Ave el until the SAS was built, we would have a subway under 2nd Ave today, as the political pull would have been so great to get that el off of 3rd Ave, that somehow they would have gotten the money to build it. |
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| (557244) | |
Re: 3rd Avenue El |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 21 14:21:54 2008, in response to Re: 3rd Avenue El, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Jan 21 14:12:32 2008. Haha, yup. When they can make that happen, I will recind my statements! |
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| (557245) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 21 14:24:28 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Wado MP73 on Mon Jan 21 12:51:08 2008. People who'd use the M/V combo instead of the L + People transferring at Essex < People who want NassauI don't believe that's true. I believe: The people who use Wyckoff+Essex people > Nassau |
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| (557246) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jan 21 14:25:21 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Wado MP73 on Mon Jan 21 12:54:19 2008. In any case, the M will soon go to Chambers on weekends.Where did they say that? |
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