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Re: LOL Told ya so! |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 14:23:39 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by BMTLines on Sun Jan 20 13:29:58 2008. I can sympathize with your need for cool air. The non-air conditioned cars must have been torture. I rode the Budd M3s i Philadelphia and in summer they were rolling ovens.Change cars when the train is stoppewd by exiting one and entering another. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 14:26:14 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Jan 20 13:31:28 2008. Remind me to buy David his favorite beverage next time I'm in New York. I give him a hard time here at times but he's an OK Joe. What happens on Subchat doesn't leave Subchat. |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Jan 20 14:39:00 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 14:23:39 2008. I rode the Budd M-3's in Philadelphia and in summer they were rolling ovens.Even after they put in a few flip-out windows on the sides, it was still unbearable. It was still sucking in hot air. This is why everyone welcome the M-4's, and they were highly advertised as being "air-conditioned". And we don't have traction motors falling off anymore. |
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Re: LOL Told ya so! |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 20 14:45:15 2008, in response to LOL Told ya so!, posted by G1Ravage on Sun Jan 20 06:38:14 2008. MTA's putting storm doors on subway cars now . . . ? |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Jan 20 14:48:58 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Jan 20 14:39:00 2008. Sorry for the italics. My coding got screwed. |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 20 15:10:09 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jan 20 13:02:10 2008. Riding between cars was FUN! I always rode between the cars. Pretend I was the conductor. Few times I even sneaked up to the conductors steps, get my hands on those bottle caps. (Off side, of course, dint want to be caught, you know! -- I figgrd that the conductor would notice a kid hanging off the train a few cars back.Loved to stand with one foot on each car. The movement of the cars, especially over the switches was fun. ROAR |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 20 15:11:06 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Jan 20 12:33:40 2008. She weren't innocent. She were breaking the LAW.And got caught at it. ROAR |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 20 15:12:30 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 20 12:47:03 2008. But they are not going to ply their trade if they see a cop.And an undercover cop probly doesn't want to blow his cover on the small stuff. |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 20 15:13:20 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 13:02:37 2008. Correct. The Law in all its majesty prohibits both rich an poor alike from sleeping under the bridge.ROAR |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 20 15:15:05 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jan 20 13:03:11 2008. Nah... MOST 12-9s seem to be people who take a running jump at the front of the train.Followed by the cases where they try to ride on top of the train. ROAR |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 20 15:21:29 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by Ken S. on Sun Jan 20 14:15:59 2008. I have *NEVER* seen a jay walking in New York City. Most of them fly where they are going.LION thinks that they should GET RID OF THE CARS, and let the people have the streets to themselves. ROAR |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 20 15:24:19 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by BMTLines on Sun Jan 20 12:55:21 2008. Well, I remember when I was in 9th grade. Our church had the annual discussion on should we allow alcohol at functions in the church hall.Everyone was opposed to that, until one of the younger ones in my class piped up and asked "Did we every have this discussion about smoking?" ROARING |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 15:24:29 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Jan 20 14:48:58 2008. OKEY DOKEY |
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Posted by danny at 103rd street on Sun Jan 20 15:46:59 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Jan 20 13:17:25 2008. Wats worse is riding in the back of the train with no other car behind no but tracksHow do I know? a friend i saw in the train did that on the 5 train at freeman street I didnt see him throgh the railfan window (R142 Bombardier) so I thoght he feel off the train then when we got to the next stop he entered the car "Hes the Dumb Ass of 2007 I said to myself" When we got to the last stop at dyer ave and I went for a picture and a maintence ladie came n said r u soppost to be in school I said yes I said im going to school right now and she talked to my friend I dont know wat they were talking about Then he told her Friend: My Friend (not me) like to ride Behind trains maintence Worker: We herd on the radio that some one rode behind a dyer ave bound 5 train earlyer are u sure it wasnt ya two Friend: no Dont know wat happend after that but we got on the train n i told him that u snich on ur own self I guss when he was riding behind the train an manhattan bound train motorman saw him and probably dispached the tower But I know one thing the maintence ladie know it was him evedough she didnt told us who did |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Jan 20 15:49:19 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Jan 20 13:17:25 2008. I dont think there has been any proof that anyone has actually died while passing between cars. ALL 5 of the situations we could find of the 14 documented cases of people falling between cars in the decade prior to the rulechange were people riding outside, urinating or defecating, with the notable exception of the toddler who fell out from inside the car. |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Jan 20 15:52:49 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 14:23:39 2008. Change cars when the train is stoppewd by exiting one and entering another.Likely more dangerous due to the need to run, instead of walk on often wet surfaces which have reduced traction. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 16:01:59 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by R30A on Sun Jan 20 15:52:49 2008. Wrong. The main hazard is not slamming into other people at busy stations as you're doing it.Personally, I would not be against moving between cars so long as the train is standing still at a station. But the TA writes its rules aimed at the lowest common denominator, using the KISS principle (Keep It Simple and Stupid) because when dealing with the public, that's oftyen what you have to do. Frankly, it's a lot easier just to stay put in the car you're in. However, this requires a degree of self control some people don't have. That's their problem, not the TA's. |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Jan 20 16:02:51 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 16:01:59 2008. Who said anything about slamming into other people? |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 20 16:16:43 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by R30A on Sun Jan 20 15:49:19 2008. To sustain the law, however, there needn't ever have actually been a death, just the mere risk thereof. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 16:16:56 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by R30A on Sun Jan 20 16:02:51 2008. Since you didn't think about it, I brought it up.As Isaid earlier, with a modicum of self-control, there's no problem most of the time. If you don't have self-control, the result could be a summons. Oh well. |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Jan 20 16:21:42 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 16:16:56 2008. Self control has nothing to do with banning a safe practice. |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Jan 20 16:23:35 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 20 16:16:43 2008. Risk of death nor death itself has nothing to do with the right of the MTA to make such a rule.The MTA is wholly within its rights to do so. It just shouldnt. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 20 16:23:35 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 16:01:59 2008. Personally, I see no reason to have any rules on this subject. When people die, that's unfortunate but it's the risk one takes by being alive. Codify that lawsuits can't be brought and let people, other than minors, do as they like crossing or riding between cars.Of course, my ideas on tort reform aren't likely to be enacted anytime soon, and the state feels a huge need to protect people from ordinary risks of being alive, so I can understand why NYCT has the rules it does. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 16:25:35 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by R30A on Sun Jan 20 16:21:42 2008. Whatever, dude.I speculate that much of the world seems unfair to you. On a superficial level, it often does appear that way. |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Jan 20 16:28:03 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 16:25:35 2008. Unfair and annoying are not the same thing in any way. Laws which do nothing but annoy the population without any benefit are, well... rather irritating. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 16:28:14 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 20 16:23:35 2008. I hear you.Medicine is similiar is some ways; cually, more extreme. We ban medicines when they hurt a tiny fraction of users, eve when they are useful to others. We are intolerant of risk... |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 16:28:49 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by R30A on Sun Jan 20 16:28:03 2008. So write to the TA and say so. |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Sun Jan 20 16:29:16 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by Broadway Buffer on Sun Jan 20 13:52:38 2008. If one is fleeing some kind of emergency or other peril, one should "say something" to the police officer or train crew ASAP to validate their action. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 20 16:30:45 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 16:28:14 2008. Indeed. Weighing lives and risk of harm is such a strange thing due to a bunch of factors, many of them psychological, e.g., look at mortality rates on the rails, and then at the roads; etc. |
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Posted by BMTLines on Sun Jan 20 16:30:56 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 20 16:23:35 2008. Another side to this is that governments are short of money so they impose new restrictions on a public not used to being so restricted in the anticipation that a significant percentage will ignore said restrictions. This results in a new revenue stream for said government.Its all about the $$$$!!!! If it was only about safety we could do away with about 80% of the laws on the books today and still live safe lives!! |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 20 16:33:26 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by BMTLines on Sun Jan 20 16:30:56 2008. Revenue is a big part of the picture, I'm sure too. If anything, I would expect that Mayor Bloomberg will soon order a sustained blitz on all fronts with regard to issuing summonses. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 20 16:33:28 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by BMTLines on Sun Jan 20 11:34:14 2008. He mentioned "hot cars", but yes, crowded and seats in the next car is another reason. |
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Posted by WillD on Sun Jan 20 16:34:34 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 13:09:23 2008. But how does someone falling between cars hurt anyone other than the person who falls? The crew may have to head down for a drug test and people are delayed. But the crew really should have known they were going to work with a ridiculously officious, bureaucratic organization when they took the test and signed up. Also there are dozens of activities on a train which can delay it, yet the the NYPD makes absolutely no move to restrict those activities. |
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Posted by WillD on Sun Jan 20 16:39:20 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 13:06:56 2008. False statement. You can be anywhere on the train. In order to catch the 6 train you need only arrive at the proper station. If you arrive at 53rd/Lex at the rear of the train, you will merely need to walk the length of the platform to the proper escalator.Not at all. Being properly placed on a train can be extremely important in making a transfer. It's much better to adjust your position along the platform while still on the train than to do so when you've wasted that time locked into one train car. The matter of minutes you save may be enough to allow you to make the transfer. |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Sun Jan 20 16:41:31 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by BMTLines on Sun Jan 20 13:29:58 2008. I remember quite a few times back in the 70s getting stuck under the East River on sweltering summer days. If I was on a Slant, I would step out onto the "porch" where it was considerably cooler than in the car. With many of the cars also suffering from lighting failures, there was an oddly charming feel to it. I would move back inside when the train was making the next station to avoid getting into trouble for "riding between cars." [angelic look] [polishing halo] |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 16:42:11 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 20 16:30:45 2008. Also look at attitudes toward the mentally ill. For example, schizophrenics are most often a danger to themselves and vulnerable to predators. But popular television sees them as convenient vehicles for hero worship. So every schizophrenic is the violent paranoid type who kills people, who of course is cut down in the final act by our hero (TV detective, private eye, Baywatch babe with gun, or what have you). The trouble with that is that people who watch this take those attitudes to the street with them.Then there was Ryan White. Granted, there was a lot about AIDs we didn't know at the time. But a glance at mortality statistics would be enough to tell you a whoile community was not at risk because one person on the block has AIDS. The self-righteous scum who burned his house down was never caught, unfortunately, but he deserved to be locked up for life. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 20 16:42:22 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Jan 20 12:20:51 2008. Hey.....that's the one I would use.... |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 16:46:37 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by WillD on Sun Jan 20 16:39:20 2008. "Being properly placed on a train can be extremely important in making a transfer."It's a zero factor, actually. The only requirement is that you arrive at the station. Period. If you want to save time, you plan ahead and catch an earlier train. Or you walk to the car you want. I've used Jamaica Center many times. I get onto the platform, walk to the car I want, then board. The number of times the train closed up and left without me is less than the number of fingers on one hand, and that's counting a couple hundred trips at least. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 16:52:06 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by WillD on Sun Jan 20 16:34:34 2008. Your answer is continuing proof of something I've told you many times. You need to finish your college education, go to work in a place that will assign you an experienced mentor, keep your mouth shut and your eyes and ears open and put experience, maturity and perspective in your head.When you've done that, you will,I hope, have learned the answer to the questions you posed. They are actually good questions, and the TA folk who post here have actually addressed them several times, but you haven't been receptive to the answers. You're far too busy telling us why the MTA needs to let you run the agency because no one there is remortely competent enough to do so. |
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Posted by WillD on Sun Jan 20 16:56:55 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 16:46:37 2008. No, every day I rode PATCO I positioned myself on the train so that I arrived at the staircase at the northern end of the 8th and Market platform. Because PATCO is at least somewhat sane they allow people walk through while the train is stopped, so several times I took advantage of that when in a hurry. Your assertion that "all that matters is the station" is ludicrous and only serves to display your ignorance of the actual mechanics of using the system. But hey, you invented the Metrocard insurance right? So you must be all knowing on these matters.The big difference with any of your "experience" is that clearly you were out foaming and thus in no particular hurry. Yes, in your idealized situation we can all leave 5 minutes early and arrive perfectly on time. However, here in the real world there are any number of problems well outside anyone's control which can keep someone from reaching the station at the ideal time. It is clear from the cases presented that the MTA's prohibition on passing between cars has much more to do with it being a revenue source for the city than it being a suicide move. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 20 17:02:49 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by WillD on Sun Jan 20 16:34:34 2008. Government is free to take up matters piecemeal, in whatever order they choose, and to even be mostly ineffectual about it. As the nation's highest court held just last week, government is perfectly free to enact stupid laws. And of course, NYCT will never even concede that any of their rules are inane, overbearing, or stupid. |
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Posted by WillD on Sun Jan 20 17:03:25 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 16:52:06 2008. As usual Ron, you cannot provide an answer so you resort to a personal attack. I thought you had the market cornered on arm chair TA management. After all, I'm sure the dude who ACTUALLY came up with Metrocard insurance just loves you taking credit for it. Why don't you put away your pom poms, tear the poster of Kalikow off your wall and accept that they might not always be right. If "experience" teaches me not to accept things at face value then I'd say I'm pretty well educated on that account while you're somewhere beack in elementary school. Hell, even their own employees admit that they've made more than a few boneheaded decisions in the past few years. Railman and all the other T/Os on this board have said it more than enough times, the MTA management is insane, and they're going to be insane regardless of whether people walk between cars. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 17:11:26 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 20 17:02:49 2008. But it will sometimes backpedal. Organizations do that while still trying to save face...MTA is by no means the worst... |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 17:17:51 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by WillD on Sun Jan 20 17:03:25 2008. "After all, I'm sure the dude who ACTUALLY came up with Metrocard insurance just loves you taking credit for it."I didn't take credit for it. A poster on the old Subtalk, David (forgot his last name) an attorney who lives in Los Angeles, came up with an idea that I modified and sent on to the TA. A number of other groups came up with different versions. The TA did not introduce an insured MetroCard at all. What they did instead was utilize the same replacement guarantee that credit card companies offer card-carrying customers. To take advantage of it you need to buy your MetroCard with a credit card; it doesn't apply to cash purchases. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 20 17:19:34 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 17:11:26 2008. MTA is by no means the worst...I can't do an exhaustive survey of government agencies, of course, but over the years I've heard more complains and dissatisfaction with management, protocols, and supervision at MTA - most especially NYCT - than any other agency from its own employees. Of course, backpedaling is slow. Even in physics! Look at the early experiments on measurement of the electron's mass for a revealing look at how even trained skeptics - scientists - apparently didn't want to deviate too much from the value given by the earliest watershed experiment. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 17:20:01 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by WillD on Sun Jan 20 16:56:55 2008. "However, here in the real world there are any number of problems well outside anyone's control which can keep someone from reaching the station at the ideal time"The difference is that a mature adult will, most of the time, exercise self-control and not translate that into justification to commit an infraction. An adolescent will not. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 17:27:15 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Jan 20 17:19:34 2008. Agreed regarding physics experiments.I've met both types at MTA, satisfied and dissatisfied types. The same applies at SEPTA, which is even more byzantine and bureaucratic than MTA. I'm friends with several seniormanagers in each agency and have met rank and file. Some figure outa way to make the system work better for them and others don't. Look at the ones who climbed the ranks and were actually spoken warmly of both in the agency and on this chat board. An agency blessed with those kinds of people has to be doing something right. NYPD is very rigid, bureaucratic and the precincts have a lot of hardcases in charge (can't blame them; after they get an ass-whipping at Compstat they work hard to prevent a repeat performance). But the agency is very effective. Kalikow's poor relations with union members had some very bad effects o morale. I truly hope Sander's iniatives have lasting benefits. |
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Posted by WillD on Sun Jan 20 17:31:15 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Jan 20 17:20:01 2008. Bullshit. Shit happens that cannot be accounted for and that can quickly eat up whatever reserve you've left yourself. Thus it can be imperative that a person use the train to make up time by moving themselves along the platform. But you're never late for anything because we all know you have nowhere to go.Hell, if the NYC Subway is going to be mind numbingly slow you might as well let the people pass between cars. |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 20 17:33:21 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jan 20 11:36:15 2008. Considering most subway systems ban passing from one car to another, I'm not so sure this is an accurate statement.Since the MTA seems pretty set on permanently linked sets for the future, perhaps an articulated subway car like those running in Madrid or Rome should be considered. |
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Posted by BMTLines on Sun Jan 20 17:34:55 2008, in response to Re: LOL Told ya so!, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jan 20 17:33:21 2008. Bring back the multis!!!! |
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