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| (554375) | |
G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jan 16 06:11:59 2008 New York Daily News article on the G train permanently being cut back to Court Square. I'm surprised at the time this was written, the guy who seems to post comments on every MTA article on the NY News site had not yet done so. |
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| (554386) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jan 16 07:01:04 2008, in response to G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jan 16 06:11:59 2008. My day is officially ruined. |
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| (554473) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 16 09:51:03 2008, in response to G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jan 16 06:11:59 2008. The new plan means G service in Queens will end at Court Square in Long Island City, one stop shy of a key location - Queens Plaza on the E, R and V lines. That will force riders to make an extra transfer to get access to Queens Blvd. and Forest Hills.Well, I guess they are used to that. G riders are shafted on the other end of the line too one stop short of a key transfer. Does anyone else see Smith and 9th to be a ludicrous location for a terminal? Yet it's been like that since IND days. |
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| (554481) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jan 16 09:58:35 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 16 09:51:03 2008. G riders are shafted on the other end of the line too one stop short of a key transfer. Does anyone else see Smith and 9th to be a ludicrous location for a terminal? Yet it's been like that since IND days.That's changing. LINK |
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Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Wed Jan 16 10:15:47 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 16 09:51:03 2008. As a concession the southbound G will be extended to Church Avenue. |
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| (554490) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 16 10:19:50 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jan 16 09:58:35 2008. Nice! Great stuff!Although, the IND should have had Church as the terminal of the G from the beginning. What a RIDICULOUS place for a terminal Smith and 9th was/is! |
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| (554491) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 16 10:21:37 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Forest Glen on Wed Jan 16 10:15:47 2008. That may even be more useful than the Queens Blvd runnage. The only real problem with the G not running on Queens Blvd is that Court Square is one station shy of the Queens Plaza transfer. I know it can't be done, but it's a shame that Queens Plaza couldn't be the terminal. Court Square is a PITA. |
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| (554532) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by Zman179 on Wed Jan 16 10:53:34 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 16 10:21:37 2008. Queens Plaza could be done. What they could do is terminate at CSQ when the V is running. When the V stops running, they could extend the G to QP and turnaround on D5 track north of QP. Because it would be done during off-peak hours, the move wouldn't cause any major backups to the E and R lines.It was done for many years before and it could be done again. |
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| (554541) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 16 11:03:55 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Zman179 on Wed Jan 16 10:53:34 2008. I can't imagine it would be any worse than what happens at Continental Ave when the R and G terminate there.What are they planning to do on weekends on Queens Blvd? Why are they taking the G away, is the V or something replacing it weekends and nights? |
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| (554553) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 16 11:32:18 2008, in response to G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jan 16 06:11:59 2008. Classic example of a newspaper editorializing instead of reporting the news. And more whining about something Queens riders already do. The route change has already been in effect for a long time, and G riders are already acclimated to it.The real change is the increase in frequency of G trains, which will continue to build ridership. |
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| (554554) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 16 11:33:08 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 16 11:03:55 2008. The G was usually cut back to Court Square anyway by GO's on weekends. |
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| (554555) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 16 11:35:36 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Zman179 on Wed Jan 16 10:53:34 2008. A couple of years ago I suggested that the TA could spend $100-150million or so extending the G to a new lower level terminal at Queens Plaza (take the new escalator or elevator up to the existing platform to transfer), but several posters here said that the grade of the trackway would be too steep to get the G down to that depth safely. |
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| (554559) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by Bee Flexible #823 on Wed Jan 16 11:43:36 2008, in response to G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jan 16 06:11:59 2008. Why not extend the G to Coney Island? |
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| (554561) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 16 11:44:50 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Bee Flexible #823 on Wed Jan 16 11:43:36 2008. And then to Staten Island via the new tunnel. 8-) |
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| (554572) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 16 12:06:16 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 16 11:32:18 2008. Truthfully, the G's plight is not that it doesn't go to Queens Blvd, but rather that it doesn't go to Manhattan (but that's the infastructure, and the way it was designed). The fact that it went to Queens Plaza made transfering to Manhattan trains a little easier than the roundabout PITA transfer at Court Square through the Citicorp connection. The vast Majority of the G's riders aren't traveling to Queens Blvd, but rather Manhattan. Yes, there are some that will be inconveninced, but the vast Majority would have gotten off by Queens Plaza anyway. |
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Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Jan 16 12:09:40 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 16 11:35:36 2008. It is also very expensive. Can't that 100 million dollars be spent on something else? |
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| (554576) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 16 12:24:10 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Jan 16 12:09:40 2008. Yes, it is very expensive, and it hasn't happened.I put it up as a trial balloon because of all the whining (not necessarily on this board) about the G train's cutback and the the experiment where the TA tried to run all the trains onto Queens Blvd and failed. Whatever... |
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| (554577) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 16 12:24:50 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 16 12:06:16 2008. Acknowledged. |
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Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Jan 16 12:30:43 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Jan 16 12:09:40 2008. Like a south-facing connector to the 63rd St tunnel perhaps... |
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| (554581) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Wed Jan 16 12:47:46 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 16 11:03:55 2008. What are they planning to do on weekends on Queens Blvd? Why are they taking the G away, is the V or something replacing it weekends and nights?The (R) will be running full-length during the nights. |
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| (554584) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Wed Jan 16 12:59:12 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 16 10:21:37 2008. Surprisingly, the MetroCard transfer between the 7 and the G isn't that bad. |
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| (554594) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 16 13:46:20 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Wed Jan 16 12:30:43 2008. Which would be a lot more useful thing to the G line than a new station under Queens Blvd. |
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| (554598) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Wed Jan 16 13:56:45 2008, in response to G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jan 16 06:11:59 2008. A TA spokesman said the service changes were made to reduce delays on the overcrowded G line, which stretches through Brooklyn and Queens.Um, isn't it overcrowded because it's only 4 R-46s? --Mark |
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Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Wed Jan 16 13:57:41 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Zman179 on Wed Jan 16 10:53:34 2008. "The G will stop at Court Square instead of Queens Plaza because [train operators] can't turn the train at Queens Plaza," TA spokesman Charles Seaton explained. "It was a logistical issue."It seems Charles Seaton doesn't agree with you. --Mark |
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| (554602) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by Mr. D - Type on Wed Jan 16 14:01:11 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Wed Jan 16 13:57:41 2008. Another part of this plan was supposed to be that once the G is cut back permanently on the Queens end and extended to Church Avenue on the Brooklyn end it is going to be reassigned to Coney Island using 4 car R68`S. |
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| (554605) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by BMTLines on Wed Jan 16 14:07:18 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Wed Jan 16 13:56:45 2008. Um, isn't it overcrowded because it's only 4 R-46s?Shhhhhhhhhhh.. You don't want to confuse the MTA with the facts ;-) |
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| (554606) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 16 14:08:34 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Mr. D - Type on Wed Jan 16 14:01:11 2008. It would be interesting seeing R68's running on the Crosstown line! Has that ever been done before? Perhaps as odd as seeing an R68 on Queens Blvd. That would also bring R68's to the Culver el (at least in passing), which would be another unusual sight, as I don't think I have ever seen that before either. |
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| (554607) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by BMTLines on Wed Jan 16 14:12:27 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 16 11:32:18 2008. G riders are already acclimated to itThey might be acclimated but it doesn't mean they like or accept it. I know a couple of G riders who drive to the Queens Plaza parking garage and pay the extra $$$ for parking there rather than deal with 2 transfers. QP would have been a much better transfer point. |
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Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by BMTLines on Wed Jan 16 14:17:51 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by G1Ravage on Wed Jan 16 12:47:46 2008. The R will be the only local on that line on weekends too? Will that be enough? |
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| (554612) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by Railman718 on Wed Jan 16 14:27:57 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by BMTLines on Wed Jan 16 14:17:51 2008. Shorter headways if im correct.. |
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| (554627) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, what about Church Av. |
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Posted by Chipper10 on Wed Jan 16 15:06:54 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Railman718 on Wed Jan 16 14:27:57 2008. Will the G be extended to Church Av at the same time it is terminated permantely at Court Sq. |
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| (554628) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 16 15:07:38 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Mr. D - Type on Wed Jan 16 14:01:11 2008. The G has pretty nice rolling stock now. Passengers tend not to complain about the R46 too much. |
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| (554630) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by error46146 on Wed Jan 16 15:21:22 2008, in response to G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jan 16 06:11:59 2008. terrible terrible terrible... |
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Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, what about Church Av. |
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Posted by Railman718 on Wed Jan 16 15:22:32 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, what about Church Av., posted by Chipper10 on Wed Jan 16 15:06:54 2008. Will the G be extended to Church Av at the same time it is terminated permantely at Court Sq.Yes i believe so.. Need to double check that... |
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Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by Michael549 on Wed Jan 16 15:29:12 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Zman179 on Wed Jan 16 10:53:34 2008. Let's us agree that the TA COULD terminate G-trains at the Queens Plaza if they wanted to, the tracks and signals exist. Let's also agree that the TA has shown over a number of years and in their train operations that they simply DO NOT WANT TO TERMINATE G-TRAINS AT QUEENS PLAZA.All of the pleading, whining and hub-bub about the G-train and Queens Plaza is for naught, and will fall on deaf ears. If one were to take a long view of the issue, it is simple by design from the original IND planners in the 1930's the G-train was not supposed to travel to Manhattan. This left only two express tracks to carry all of the Manhattan traffic - meaning congested transfer stations, etc. So regardless of how many trains use the express tracks there can only be 30 trains an hour from day one. To help with the situation, a 60th Street connection was proposed in the 1950's, and opened in the early 1960's, then called RR, then EE, then N, and now R. The plans for the 63rd Street tunnel originally was for a Super-Express in Queens to provide quicker express service to outer Queens - but we've talked about why the plans were changed to what we have now. The bottom line is that thousands/millions of riders want to travel between Manhattan and Queens, or Manhattan and Brooklyn - but not as much between Queens and Brooklyn. Now the train services along the Queens Blvd line allow all trains to travel from Manhattan to Queens - something the riders want. In another message stream about the Ditmars Blvd station there is a discussion about the IND Second System. In both the 1929 Map and the 1939 Map - one can see that the IND planners give little attention to travel between Manhattan and Queens. The IND planners wanted to provide three new direct tunnels to Brooklyn (the whole West and South 4th Street crap), and one new additional tunnel to connect Queens Blvd lines directly to Manhattan in the 1939 Plan, while the 1929 Map shows no additional tunnels. Oh sure, they wanted to extend IND subways in every direction on the eastern end of Queens, but no comparable improvements when it came to getting to Manhattan. Basically the original IND planners did not go a good job when it came to providing direct Manhattan to Queens service. They created a situation where the tracks do not lead to where the riders want to go, and they did it repeatedly in their plans. Since what we have to deal with is what has been actually built, the G-train is a problem in the eyes of the TA. While it is easy for transit-fans to draw on their paper maps their hopes and wishes for this or that - it is simply not that easy to actually come up with money to build new subways, stations or terminals. In fact real money is hard to come by, so the TA has to deal with, run and maintain what has actually been built. Yes, the TA could route G-trains into and out of the Queens Plaza station. Yes such G-trains would cross the paths of E and R trains both entering and leaving the station. Yes, its a pain in the tush for the riders and some riders feel abandoned. From the TA's point of view, ending the G-train at Court Square gets those trains out of, and away from trains who have a conflicting pathway. From a train operation point of view the less paths of the trains conflict the better. Please note that is was the original planners/builders of the IND System that created the Court Street station in such a way that it could become a terminal. If they had not done so, fate of the G-route might be different. If you want someone to blame then blame the planners of the original as built IND system. Is the G-train ending at Court Square such a surprising event? Only to those who do not read or understand transit news, transit history, or the actions of the TA. Otherwise there's no new news here. Mike |
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Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jan 16 16:09:16 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Forest Glen on Wed Jan 16 10:15:47 2008. The only good thing about this Church extension is direct service to Park Slope and Methodist Hospital, and maybe perhaps another way to go to Coney Island and Bay Ridge. The Queens Boulevard part of the route is way more efficient for the riders. |
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| (554657) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jan 16 16:11:05 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Michael549 on Wed Jan 16 15:29:12 2008. Now the train services along the Queens Blvd line allow all trains to travel from Manhattan to Queens - something the riders want.Yeah like nobody wants the Crosstown line... *smh*. |
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Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jan 16 16:14:49 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Mr. D - Type on Wed Jan 16 14:01:11 2008. using 4 car R68`SLet's just hope that's a rumor. |
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Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jan 16 16:19:56 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 16 11:32:18 2008. G riders are already acclimated to it.Not at all, when (G) trains go to Queens Plaza on the weekends, Court Square is a ghost town. |
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Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by Railman718 on Wed Jan 16 16:28:03 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Mr. D - Type on Wed Jan 16 14:01:11 2008. Another part of this plan was supposed to be that once the G is cut back permanently on the Queens end and extended to Church Avenue on the Brooklyn end it is going to be reassigned to Coney Island using 4 car R68`S.With them "extending" Coney Island Yard and the George "perhaps" switching districts from 5 to 3 (Queens to the South) its a possiblity.. Wont know for sure until the Pick Board goes up.. |
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| (554674) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Wed Jan 16 16:49:40 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jan 16 16:09:16 2008. You're forgetting the useful transfer at 4th Avenue.The G on Queens Boulevard really serves no purpose. I saw a weekend Manhattan-bound G arrive at Roosevelt Avenue once, and although it was packed, virtually everyone got off at Roosevelt to transfer to the express. What's needed is weekend V or expanded R service to replace the G on Queens Boulevard. |
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Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 16 16:58:56 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by The Port of Authority on Wed Jan 16 16:49:40 2008. Agreed. |
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Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 16 17:08:59 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jan 16 16:19:56 2008. Well obviously. It's easier to transfer at Queens Plaza than it is to transfer at Court Square. |
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Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Wed Jan 16 17:20:10 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 16 16:58:56 2008. To make up for the loss of the G on Queens Boulevard, I'd also support the idea of creating a MetroCard transfer between Queens Plaza and Queensboro Plaza, much like what is in place between 45th Rd/Court House Sq and 23rd/Ely Avenue/Court Sq. The Queens Plaza station entrances are only a short walk from Queensboro Plaza. |
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Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by italianstallion on Wed Jan 16 17:24:30 2008, in response to G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jan 16 06:11:59 2008. None of this is news. It was reported on SubChat last month. |
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Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by R160 8818 on Wed Jan 16 17:26:19 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by italianstallion on Wed Jan 16 17:24:30 2008. True.Damn. We get the news before the News gets the news. That's pretty sad. Looks like they will run a report on how the X32 got cancelled in September. |
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| (554698) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by italianstallion on Wed Jan 16 17:29:17 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by The Port of Authority on Wed Jan 16 17:20:10 2008. While that is a good idea, how does it help G riders from Brooklyn getting to Queens? |
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| (554699) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 16 17:30:06 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by The Port of Authority on Wed Jan 16 17:20:10 2008. Very cool. |
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| (554700) | |
Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 16 17:30:56 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by italianstallion on Wed Jan 16 17:29:17 2008. More frequent G trains are coming. That's what's needed. G riders don't need a through-train. |
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Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Wed Jan 16 17:34:06 2008, in response to Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by italianstallion on Wed Jan 16 17:29:17 2008. It might not help them directly, but it's a link that should be considered. |
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