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| (543616) | |
Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1 |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:07:23 2007 Having been inspired by the recent adventures of Chris R16 I wanted to get some Metrolink railfanning in on some of the lines that I hadn't ridden. I had my choice of the Ventura, Riverside, 91 Fwy, or IEOC lines since I had ridden the OC, San Bernardino, and Antelope Valley lines already. Looking at the schedule I saw that I could hit the entire Riverside line, connect to the IEOC, and take the OC line back to Union Station. I was able to make all of the connections as planned so I've ridden nearly the entire system except for the Ventura line and a couple of other minor connections.I started at my de facto home station.  Union Station was kind of slow since it was the middle of the afternoon.   My train.  Inside my train. I think that there was a maximum of 12 people in my car and 3 of them were with me. The 2 cars closer to the pax ramp from the terminal had more people. Maybe 30? Very slow day.   The gold line is a couple of platforms away. 
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| (543621) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1 |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Dec 30 00:10:40 2007, in response to Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:07:23 2007. Nice pictures -- can't wait to see the subsequent ones.I'd considered taking a Metrolink trip several times in the past few months, but the poor scheduling of most of its lines deterred me every time. Perhaps I'll go on one next year. |
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| (543623) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 30 00:16:06 2007, in response to Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:07:23 2007. Them low platforms are t3h k3wl. NJT's Hoboken Division used to be like that . . . |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (543624) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 30 00:17:50 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1, posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Dec 30 00:10:40 2007. You'd think a city the size of LA would have commuter rail service at least as frequent as LIRR, right . . . ? |
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| (543625) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 2 |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:18:02 2007, in response to Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:07:23 2007. Red line yard The beginning of the trip looks like this for a while. You can see the BNSF/Amtrak/OC line tracks in the far background.  Some construction at this station. We couldn't platform all the cars.  Pomona station  Ontario airport  Station artwork 
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| (543627) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1 |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 30 00:19:53 2007, in response to Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:07:23 2007. Nice pics. |
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| (543631) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1 |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:23:54 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1, posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Dec 30 00:10:40 2007. Thanks.The OC line has decent service if you couple it with Amtrak. The mission in San Juan Capistrano may be worth a visit if you haven't been there. The Oceanside station is only a couple of blocks from the beach. There's more interesting stuff on that line compared to the others. |
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| (543635) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1 |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Dec 30 00:34:38 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:23:54 2007. I'd consider taking the train to Oceanside solely for the part between San Juan Capistrano and Oceanside, where the line passes between Camp Pendleton and the ocean. I've driven on the 5 through this area before, but I had to focus on the road and couldn't take a look at the scenery. |
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| (543636) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 3 |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:36:08 2007, in response to Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:07:23 2007. Riverside station. Word on the street was that they don't like photographers - especially railfan photographers - but the security guard didn't give me any trouble.  I had about 30 minutes to walk around Riverside. There are restaurants and a couple of museums nearby, but I didn't have the time. I did see this on the way.  Moms and son waiting on (I think) a railfan brother. They both turned their head when I pointed my camera.  BNSF train pulls through. 
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| (543637) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1 |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:38:04 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1, posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Dec 30 00:34:38 2007. That's a good spot. The train is much better than the road. It goes right on the edge of the beach. |
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| (543638) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1 |
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Posted by WillD on Sun Dec 30 00:39:18 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 30 00:17:50 2007. There was a rumor I heard a few years back that in the mid 1990s Pacific Gas and Electric approached Metrolink about electrification of their operation. PGE was prepared to pay for the entire installation and then charge for power at the pantograph, removing the cost of transmission losses from Metrolink's ledger. Metrolink considered the proposal, but reached the conclusion that the conversion to electric locomotives wouldn't save them any money. The Metrolink bean counters had only considered the case where they maintained the same schedule. It didn't occur to them that converting to electric would potentially allow off-peak service at lower cost which would raise ridership far more than expansions of diesel service. By the time that issue was broached PGE was starting to have problems with weekday peak demand and the last thing they needed was a few more megawatts being sucked down by trains whose operation they were subsidizing.I have to admit I don't know if this is in any way accurate, I only heard it from one person who has in the past made up stories. However, I also heard that PGE was supporting the 1990s Caltrain electrification and LACMTA/SCRTD trolleybus installation on the same program they approached Metrolink with, and those were definitely real before NIMBYs killed them. |
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| (543639) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1 |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:39:45 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 30 00:16:06 2007. I noticed that they're no all the same height. IIRC the Riverside platform was higher than the Union Station platform. I'm not sure why. |
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| (543641) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1 |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:40:00 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 30 00:19:53 2007. Thanks. |
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| (543642) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 3 |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Dec 30 00:41:09 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 3, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:36:08 2007. Riverside station. Word on the street was that they don't like photographers - especially railfan photographers - but the security guard didn't give me any trouble.A similar incident occurred at the Glendale station a while ago. I was standing on the platform with my camera around my neck in plain sight, waiting to photograph an outbound train to Moorpark. While I was on the platform (among dozens of other commuters as well) a security guard walked onto the platform and stood about 15 feet away from me. He continued to stand there (supposedly to make me feel "uncomfortable") while I waited. Nevertheless, I got my photos and left. Nothing else happened. |
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| (543646) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 4 |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:55:58 2007, in response to Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:07:23 2007. On the IEOC line my group of three were the only people in our car, except for the engineer and conductor, for the entire trip. It was a little weird. It was a holiday week and we were reverse peak, but still. Maybe people are avoiding the coffin car?! ;)Access to the RFW was obviously part of the design, but is now restricted. :(  Empty station parking lot. The first I've seen with a carport.  Some sort of lighthouse design?  Green river. It really is green. It looks almost like antifreeze.  Orange station.  Our train back to union station turned out to be very crowded. For some reason lots of people with luggage were on there. Amtrak ticket holders are allowed to use any Metrolink train so I guess they were taking advantage of that. But there's no place to put luggage on metrolink trains so it was annoying for the rest of us. |
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| (543712) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 2 |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 30 07:36:41 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 2, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:18:02 2007. nice! |
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| (543714) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 3 |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 30 07:37:47 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 3, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:36:08 2007. cool pics. weird stations. |
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| (543715) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 4 |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 30 07:39:57 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 4, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:55:58 2007. Access to the RFW was obviously part of the design, but is now restricted. :(That's how it is on TRI-RAIL, so I shot my pics from back there and just zoomed through the RFW. |
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| (543752) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 4 |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 30 10:16:14 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 4, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:55:58 2007. The signal in that ;last picture: is that clearance to a diverging route, or am I reading it backwards (red over green)? |
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| (543756) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 4 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 30 10:28:44 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 4, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:55:58 2007. there's no place to put luggage on metrolink trainsNo overhead racks? Single-level commuter cars in the Northeast (both MUs and push-pull) have them. Even the older MUs and commuter cars from the 30s had them (but then again, they also had baggage combine cars on some trains . . . imagine putting baggage in the combine at EWR station nowadays . . .) That station at Orange looks like there might be room for a third track. Of course, freight track-center requirements for those cars of Plate B clearance and wider (Plate B is 10' 8" wide) might preclude that . . . |
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| (543758) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 30 10:30:49 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1, posted by WillD on Sun Dec 30 00:39:18 2007. Sure would be ironic seeing Pacific Electric getting back into passenger rail in even that capacity. The wisdom of doing so is something that cannot be argued with; and frankly, with CA's emissions regs, it'd be more than merely prudent and a money-saver in both short and long run, in spite of what any bean counter might say. |
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| (543760) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 30 10:33:00 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:39:45 2007. AFAICR, 18 inches is max height for platforms in CA. Might be a gradual effort to make all platforms match floor height.Did you happen to note the rail weight of the tracks in Union Station? |
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| (543762) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1 |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 30 10:34:56 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1, posted by WillD on Sun Dec 30 00:39:18 2007. It sounds like the PG and E might have axed the project even if Metrolink had given the green light; or at least PG and E would have had the problem you mentioned, only exacerbated by the catenary's demand. |
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| (543766) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 30 10:43:44 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 30 10:34:56 2007. Woulda been worth it anyway. However, we would've needed electric motors that resembled the F59PHI so that the Pacific Surfliners wouldn't look like they were mismatched. Put one on either end and make it look like a de-facto high-speed train . . . |
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| (543770) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1 |
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Posted by WillD on Sun Dec 30 11:01:54 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 30 10:34:56 2007. That's just it, for the most part the railroad's peak demand periods would not coincide with the grid's peak demand periods. During rush hour you may have trains running at 4-5 tph and placing a fair amount of demand on the system. In the morning the railroad would have relatively little competition for power, and by the evening rush hour A/C units would start winding down as temperatures fall, again freeing up capacity for the trains. The Caltrain electrification study has born out their electrification's negligable impact on the power grid. It is also worth noting that most of the brownouts were artificial in nature, the product of Enron and other energy speculators inflating the price of electricity in California. The PGE system is completely capable of handling future demands, including Caltrain and Metrolink electrification and a high speed rail system, so long as someone doesn't go and turn off the powerplants to make a quick buck.My point was not that electrification would somehow result in brownouts, but rather that by the year 2000 PGE was no longer looking to give away power as they had been half a decade before. |
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| (543772) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1 |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 30 11:06:40 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1, posted by WillD on Sun Dec 30 11:01:54 2007. OK, thank you.There is a sliver of good news. Electrification can still be attempted in future. As the locos age, you can try to get a political consensus to buy electric locomotives (so you don't have to toss all your rolling stock). Or you can advocate for MUs. Never say never. Unless you're James Bond, in which case, Never say Never Again. |
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| (543775) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1 |
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Posted by WillD on Sun Dec 30 11:14:14 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 30 10:43:44 2007. However, we would've needed electric motors that resembled the F59PHI so that the Pacific Surfliners wouldn't look like they were mismatched.I dunno why, it's not like the F59PHIs fit well with the Metrolink Bombardier cars:  Amtrak California uses plenty of Pepsi cans to haul the CalCars around. A short AEM7, HHP-8, ALP44, ALP46 or whatever would look great compared to this: 
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| (543776) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 3 |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 30 11:14:55 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 3, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:36:08 2007. That last shot in quintessential SoCal - a container train headed to/from the Port of Long Beach... |
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| (543778) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1 |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 30 11:20:33 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1, posted by WillD on Sun Dec 30 11:14:14 2007. And what about LIRR? You will recall their pre-C3 diesel trains had a cab-car FL-9 on one end and a yard switcher on the other end. Somehow I don't think that would ever win fashion awards at the railroad equivalent of Gentleman's Quarterly.
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| (543779) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1 |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 11:21:14 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1, posted by WillD on Sun Dec 30 11:01:54 2007. I've never heard that Metrolink electrification story on any of the California rail forums. Maybe it happened, but keep in mind that the local electricity providers in socal are LADWP, SDG&E and SCE. There's no PG&E down here, that's in northern cali. I can't remember when California deregulated the electrical utilities (late 90's I think), but even after deregulation the local utilities are the ones that build and maintain the local infrastructure. I'm not saying that PG&E couldn't do it, but it sounds like there'd be some obstacles, especially with maintenance.Also metrolink started in the early 90's. Surely the SCRRA would have made a decision on whether to buy a diesel or electric fleet before buying all of the equipment. |
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| (543780) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 2 |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 11:23:41 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 2, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 30 07:36:41 2007. thanks! |
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| (543781) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1 |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 11:26:08 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 30 10:33:00 2007. Did you happen to note the rail weight of the tracks in Union Station??? |
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| (543782) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 2 |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 30 11:26:17 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 2, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:18:02 2007. Great shots. |
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Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1 |
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Posted by R Pansepcc on Sun Dec 30 11:27:15 2007, in response to Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:07:23 2007. Parts 1-4 are simply great. Anymore? |
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| (543788) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 2 |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 11:35:01 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 2, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 30 11:26:17 2007. Thanks. |
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| (543791) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1 |
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Posted by WillD on Sun Dec 30 11:38:36 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 11:21:14 2007. You're right. Now I'm not sure if the guy I heard the story from was BSing or if he just got his facts wrong. I do know that PGE owns most of the various high voltage PATH powerlines from Northern to Southern California. It could be that they were looking to get direct access to SCE switching stations, perhaps supplementing SCE's PATH 26, and wanted to use the railroad ROWs to that end. The SCRTD trolleybus project was definitely a real project right up until NIMBYs killed it with their fear of EMFs from 600vdc wires. I think all of this may have been spearheaded by CARB's ZEV program, looking to form links between the transit systems and their respective utility companies.Also metrolink started in the early 90's. Surely the SCRRA would have made a decision on whether to buy a diesel or electric fleet before buying all of the equipment. Yup, I was on one of the first trips. I think that was part of the problem outlined by the study, the disposal of their brand new diesel fleet. Of course if they'd known how many new start commuter roads would crop up they easily could have unloaded their F59PHs on them. |
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Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1 |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 11:39:26 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1, posted by R Pansepcc on Sun Dec 30 11:27:15 2007. Thanks. Jump (click) on the Riverside Trolley to see the pics that I didn't post here.
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| (543795) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1 |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 30 11:43:05 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1, posted by WillD on Sun Dec 30 11:38:36 2007. You never do a starter line where the strongest NIMBYS are. You do it someplace where the politics are easier to deal with, then you operate the line, demonstrate benefits and invite expansion. Some neighborhoods will never join, while others will see the loudmouth NIMBYs for who they really are, will neutralize them and join up. |
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| (543806) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 30 11:55:40 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 30 11:20:33 2007. Pre-C3 LIRR was good for them abomination trains. |
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| (543810) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1 |
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Posted by WillD on Sun Dec 30 11:57:39 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 30 11:43:05 2007. When the project was approved in 1992 there was no NIMBY problem. By the summer of 1993 the FTA had already approved the Rt40 and 45 demonstration program and 50 million dollars had been allocated to construct the wire and purchase the vehicles. Only then did the NIMBYs come out of the woodwork, lead by their city councilman. By fall Long Beach got out of the project and by winter it was dead, with 40 million dollars of the funds reallocated.I've heard a few conspiracy theories about the city councilman and even the SCRTD board being bought off by Natural Gas lobbying groups and what have you. However, this just seems like complete ignorance through and through. |
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| (543812) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 30 11:58:38 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1, posted by WillD on Sun Dec 30 11:14:14 2007. That P32-8 partially illustrates my point. Any closer to the gallery-car look is not ideal, for sure. The Surfliners are supposed to be 125-mph capable, after all.it's not like the F59PHIs fit well with the Metrolink Bombardier cars That's why I didn't mention the Metrolink BBDs. |
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| (543813) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 30 12:00:14 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 11:26:08 2007. Read the raised print on the rails. Often (but not all the time), there's a number on there that tells you how many pounds per yard the rail weighs. |
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Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1 |
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Posted by WillD on Sun Dec 30 12:51:18 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 1, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 11:39:26 2007. Excellent photos.Would you happen to have a higher resolution version of this picture?  It looks like that's a GP35 or maybe a GP38, but it's hard to see if it has two large radiator fans or three with two large and one small. Also, what railroad operates that locomotive? |
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Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 2 |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Sun Dec 30 12:59:59 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 2, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:18:02 2007. that platform construction going over the tracks is odd looking. |
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| (543853) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 4 |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Sun Dec 30 13:03:27 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 4, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 00:55:58 2007. "The first I've seen with a carport."Beyond awesome |
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| (543902) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1 |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 14:24:29 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 30 00:17:50 2007. We don't have a single employment center as big as Manhattan or DC or downtown Chicago so it's not really that surprising. |
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Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 3 |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 14:27:32 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics-Part 3, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 30 07:37:47 2007. All of the stations are designed and paid for by the city that they're in. The cool thing is that they are all unique. However even though we get really cool ones like Burbank there are a few extremely crappy ones, like Commerce which almost looks abandoned. |
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Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1 |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 14:34:24 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 30 12:00:14 2007. Can I see that from the platform or are would I need to climb down on the tracks? |
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| (543913) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 30 14:39:10 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 14:34:24 2007. Should be able to see from the platform. I'm able to read such things from a high platform; a low platform is yet easier. |
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| (543926) | |
Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1 |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 30 14:55:19 2007, in response to Re: Metrolink trip report and pics—Part 1, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 30 14:39:10 2007. Okay. I'll look next time that I'm there. |
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