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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Dec 13 13:44:49 2007, in response to WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Dec 13 13:40:24 2007. Thanks for sharing that."That plan followed a public hearing that drew more than 400 comments from riders, many of whom said that proposed fare and fee hikes were too high and not merited by Metro's unreliable service." When will Metro get a dedicated funding source? |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Thu Dec 13 14:04:42 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Dec 13 13:44:49 2007. When will Metro get a dedicated funding source?When retrocession becomes complete and DC rejoins Maryland. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Dec 13 14:11:10 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Scrabbleship on Thu Dec 13 14:04:42 2007. Why would DC rejoin Maryland? Maryland doesn't want DC. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Dec 13 14:11:41 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Dec 13 13:44:49 2007. When the federal government gets its act together and creates one... |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by rideonrulez on Thu Dec 13 14:12:14 2007, in response to WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Dec 13 13:40:24 2007. WMATA passengers might as well do "direct deposit" onto there smartrip cards.... |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Thu Dec 13 14:25:51 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Dec 13 14:11:10 2007. Wiki explanation of retrocession's advantages, and possible benefits, to Maryland |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Dec 13 14:34:32 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Scrabbleship on Thu Dec 13 14:25:51 2007. Never mind that the Constitution provides for the creation of a federal district to serve as a capital for the country in Article I, Section 8 and most people seem to prefer not having a capital in a specific state. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Dec 13 14:46:29 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Dec 13 14:11:10 2007. It should become it own state..with state powers.. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Dec 13 17:02:15 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Edwards! on Thu Dec 13 14:46:29 2007. Or its residents shouldn't pay federal income tax... |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Thu Dec 13 17:04:18 2007, in response to WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Dec 13 13:40:24 2007. The fare hike sucks, but if it means preserving the Metro's infrastructure and high quality of service then so be it. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 13 17:09:40 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Forest Glen on Thu Dec 13 17:04:18 2007. if it means preserving the Metro's infrastructure and high quality of service then so be it.nothing is guaranteed |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Dec 14 08:35:45 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Dec 13 13:44:49 2007. When will Metro get a dedicated funding source?For you information Ron: WMATA has one of the highest if not the highest fare box to subsidy ratio of any agency in north America. Something over 55% of the operating cost are paid directly by the fare paying passengers. It is my believe that when the N Route Tyson, Dulles, Loudoun County Silver line is opened and paid for the tolls that were used to retire The Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority bonds to pay their share will become a dedicated funding source. Tolls on the Dulles Toll Road were raised almost 3 years ago for the purpose of paying off bonds that have yet to be sold. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Dec 14 08:44:18 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Forest Glen on Thu Dec 13 17:04:18 2007. The fare hike sucks, but if it means preserving the Metro's infrastructure and high quality of service then so be it.Capital projects and procurement are paid for from a different pot of money. Your definition of 'high quality of service' must be different then what others use. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by rideonrulez on Fri Dec 14 09:09:36 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Forest Glen on Thu Dec 13 17:04:18 2007. What's your definition of "high quality service"? I don't ride everyday but from my experiences from when I do ride WMATA (2-3 times a week) I feel as they need to take "subway operations 101". |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Dec 14 09:42:26 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Dec 14 08:44:18 2007. From what we're reading, WMATA is striving for high quality service, but hasn't quite gotten there yet. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Dec 14 09:45:28 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Dec 14 08:35:45 2007. Thank you,John. I hope it works out. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Dec 14 09:49:49 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Forest Glen on Thu Dec 13 17:04:18 2007. Seems a lot of people disagree with your assessment of WMATA. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Dec 14 09:54:08 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Dec 13 14:34:32 2007. Personally, I'd want the DC police to invade Arlington County and plant the DC flag; then the DC Council can annex it. At least the Crystal City part.Not realistic? Oh, well.... |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Fri Dec 14 10:28:52 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by rideonrulez on Fri Dec 14 09:09:36 2007. I've used it many times. It is an exemplary system. The Red line operates every three minutes during rush hour, the Metro uses modern CAF's, and stations are clean and modern. Although a few rowdy high school students use the Metro, crime in the system is unheard of. The only problem is the overcrowding on the Red and Orange lines. However, that is simply the result of the Metro being so popular. Without a doubt this is the best system in North America. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Dec 14 10:40:13 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Forest Glen on Fri Dec 14 10:28:52 2007. Without a doubt this is the best system in North America.That's a pretty big claim, and it seems you are basing it on totally subjective criteria. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Dec 14 10:40:51 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Dec 14 09:42:26 2007. From what we're reading, WMATA is striving for high quality service, but hasn't quite gotten there yet.In the past there was high quality service. History will tell one that the folks that were in charge of WMATA back in the 1970 and 80s (the Board of Directors and the General Manages staff) had their priorities out of whack. Keep the priority of building the full 101 mile railroad number one (we now have a 106 mile railroad). Procuring rolling stock to run on the railroad should be left for later consideration. I could go on and on but I think you get the drift. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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| (533343) | |
Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Fri Dec 14 10:51:43 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Dec 14 10:40:51 2007. Rolling stock can always be procured. However, there are set windows for system expansions. The Metro should be applauded for realizing that the DC metropolitan area extends past the city line. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Dec 14 10:57:03 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Forest Glen on Fri Dec 14 10:51:43 2007. "Rolling stock can always be procured"That's harder than you think. "However, there are set windows for system expansions" For getting federal funds, yes. "The Metro should be applauded for realizing that the DC metropolitan area extends past the city line. " That's like saying WMATA should be applauded for realizing the sun comes up every morning. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Dec 14 10:57:36 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Forest Glen on Fri Dec 14 10:28:52 2007. The CAF cars have the worst performance record out of all the rolling stock currently in use. The Green Line is overcrowded on its southern end. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Dec 14 10:58:52 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Dec 14 10:57:36 2007. Agreed. The overcrowding is a testament to the usefulness of the line and the planners who put a line there; at the same time it's also a sign of some of WMATA's operational problems. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Dec 14 11:10:05 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Forest Glen on Fri Dec 14 10:28:52 2007. I've used it many times. It is an exemplary system.Read the alerts craw at the top of page at WMATA web site any day would indicate otherwise. I would also suggest perusing the report in the archive of previous days service to dispel you blind optimum. The Red line operates every three minutes during rush hour, the Metro uses modern CAF's, and stations are clean and modern. Although a few rowdy high school students use the Metro, crime in the system is unheard of. The only problem is the overcrowding on the Red and Orange lines. However, that is simply the result of the Metro being so popular. If metrorail is so popular how come the daily boarding statistics today are more then a 2 million short of what was projected for 1990 in the 1975 FEIS? (page 61 of PDF file) Without a doubt this is the best system in North America. If what you say is so, then the rest the agencies North America must be pretty sorry operations. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by Brighton Private on Fri Dec 14 11:16:24 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Dec 14 11:10:05 2007. Crime is not "unheard of." While at a level that most big cities would consider acceptable/manageable, there have been incidents far more serious than just rowdy high schoolers, including the murder of a Metro policeman at the U Street station several years ago and another murder at the Convention Center station.Additionally, Metro has had a serious problem with car thefts and break-ins from the Metro garages/parking lots, and there have been a number of assaults in or near Metro stations and parking facilities. That said, I should point out I feel relatively safe on the Metro (I live in DC but grew up in Brooklyn, so have experience with both systems). The clear sightlines in the stations make a big difference both to real and perceived security. But it is simply untrue to say that crime is "unheard of" in the system. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Dec 14 11:40:59 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Dec 14 11:10:05 2007. I do not wish a New York 1970s situation on WMATA. I hope it never gets near that point. But if WMATA doesn't straighten out its maintenance situation, as the syste ages further, it could happen. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by rideonrulez on Fri Dec 14 11:50:08 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Forest Glen on Fri Dec 14 10:28:52 2007. Exemplary system? LOL I'm not saying it's the worst system but it can be alot better. I'm hoping John Catoe can fix some of this stuff but it will probably take awhile |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Fri Dec 14 12:01:00 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Dec 14 11:40:59 2007. Replacement of the 1000-series cars seems in order, though. There were two hideous crashes involving them, both chronicled in NTSB reports, and both of which seemed to have to do with the composition of the those cars. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Dec 14 12:03:04 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by trainsarefun on Fri Dec 14 12:01:00 2007. Agreed. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by rideonrulez on Fri Dec 14 13:57:18 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by trainsarefun on Fri Dec 14 12:01:00 2007. The Rohr's (1000 series) are definately showing there age. I like the new Alstoms though (6000 series). |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Dec 14 15:25:05 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Dec 14 10:58:52 2007. In that its a 2 track subway? Who do you blame for that? |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Dec 14 15:25:18 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Dec 14 10:58:52 2007. In that it is a 2 track subway? Who do you blame for that? |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Dec 14 15:26:26 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by trainsarefun on Fri Dec 14 12:01:00 2007. Two crashes? Care to enlighten the rest of us as to what events you have in mind and how the cars involved were a major factor in the incidents? |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Dec 14 15:26:59 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Dec 14 11:10:05 2007. Many of those ealerts are due to poorly publicized track maintenance. However, plenty of other incidents are outlined in the daily disruption reports. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Dec 14 15:27:47 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Dec 14 09:54:08 2007. If they are going to do that they might as well take the whole thing... |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Dec 14 15:27:48 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Dec 14 09:54:08 2007. If they are going to do that they might as well take the whole thing... |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Dec 14 15:40:29 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Dec 14 15:25:18 2007. Did you read my post?WMATA's operational difficulties include not having enough rolling stock and not keeping the rolling stock maintained and available. I'm not criticizing the two-track line per se. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Fri Dec 14 16:27:00 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Dec 14 11:10:05 2007. Sometimes when you have a gem for so long you take it for granted. I don't care what anyone says. This system kicks ass. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Fri Dec 14 17:07:49 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Dec 14 15:26:26 2007. Care to enlighten the rest of us as to what events you have in mind and how the cars involved were a major factor in the incidents?OK. Whether the cars were "major" factors in the accidents isn't for me to say, but certainly their sturdiness was called into question severely. First, I have to revise my earlier observation to cover WMATA's 1000 through 4000 series ralicars, inclusive. Second, as to collisions: the January 1996 incident at Shady Grove, and the the November 2004 collision at Woodley Park. NTSB's report on the latter discusses crashworthiness as to both incidents. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Dec 14 17:45:10 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Dec 14 15:26:26 2007. The Shady Grove incident involved 3000 Series cars, not 1000 Series cars. The incident at Woodley Park was primarily due to human error, though the construction of the 1000 Series cars involved may have been a more significant issue had that train been in revenue service. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Fri Dec 14 18:28:34 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Dec 14 17:45:10 2007. I don't think that anyone said that crashworthiness was a causal factor of either collision, but it could have greatly mitigated loss of life and injury in the event those trains had been carrying more passengers.The Shady Grove incident involved 3000 Series cars, not 1000 Series cars. The incident at Woodley Park was primarily due to human error, though the construction of the 1000 Series cars involved may have been a more significant issue had that train been in revenue service. The loss of life in both incidents would have been immense had those trains been even moderately loaded. The crash performance of those cars, as the telescoping demonstrated, resulted in horrific pictures. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Fri Dec 14 18:46:46 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by trainsarefun on Fri Dec 14 18:28:34 2007. The relevant NTSB reports are available as follows:Woodley Park Crash Shady Grove Crash We caught a big break in that the trains involved were very sparsely loaded. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Dec 14 22:27:13 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Forest Glen on Fri Dec 14 10:51:43 2007. Rolling stock can always be procured.Can is not the correct question. When is the correct question. However, there are set windows for system expansions. Then explain to me why WMATA chose to not expand the rolling stock fleet at the same or greater rate then the miles they added to the system. The Metro should be applauded for realizing that the DC metropolitan area extends past the city line. The forerunner to WMATA, The NCTC (National Capitol Transit Commission) made that conclusion more the 45 years ago. WMATA took that conclusion and massaged into the ARS that was approved in 1969. The WMATA compact is compose of four counties in two states, three cities and the District of Columbia, it's vision always was to serve the areas beyond urban core of Washington DC. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by Easy on Fri Dec 14 22:44:47 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Dec 14 11:10:05 2007. If metrorail is so popular how come the daily boarding statistics today are more then a 2 million short of what was projected for 1990That document won't load for me, but if they were predicting 3 million per day they weren't very realistic with their predictions. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Dec 14 22:46:42 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Forest Glen on Fri Dec 14 16:27:00 2007. Sometimes when you have a gem for so long you take it for granted.I don't care what anyone says. This system kicks ass. Hey, You won't get any argument from me about the quality of the architecture and engineering that was built. Efficient and attractively designed rapid rail transit station are of no use if you don’t have enough trains to run through them. You harp about 3 minute headways on the Red line in you previous post. Fact is the train control system is designed to accommodate headways that are half that. The problem is WMATA doesn't have the rolling stock to run 90 second headways. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Dec 14 23:48:07 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Easy on Fri Dec 14 22:44:47 2007. That document won't load for me, but if they were predicting 3 million per day they weren't very realistic with their predictions.The file is 112 MB it is a 986 page graph scan of the original typed FEIS,. Best viewed off line after downloading. The exact number quoted is 2,857,924. Many of the folks that that prepared that document do not apologize for predicting those numbers. Below is the text of the page. * added with explanations by me at the bottom. Station names in ( ) added by me. Table 6: Projected Daily Volume By Station, 1990
Source: WMATA NIA-1969. as Revised Note: Updated figure for this table are not yet available from the 1974 Net Income Analysis. All station names in parenthesis are the name used today. * Station not built at the location used in the study. Station and line moved to adjacent location. ** Station not built at the location used in the study, station built further south at Braddock Road *** Station not built at the location used in the study, station built further south and is now called Franconia-Springfield. **** Station not built. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Dec 15 00:16:59 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Dec 14 23:48:07 2007. Thanks! I'm downloading it now.I remember reading a couple of years ago when a local group was applying for Federal money for an additional eastern extension of the gold line, that their original ridership estimates were rejected by the Feds. Evidently they were/are requiring more detailed justification for the statistics than they used to. Eventually new, lower numbers were submitted and approved. |
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