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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Dec 6 16:12:12 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 6 00:14:58 2007.

AMTK tried that. Now they went back to what was previously.

ROAR

(528923)

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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Dec 6 16:21:02 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Railman718 on Thu Dec 6 00:17:50 2007.

Now, the next step for the MTA, if they really want to save money, is to sell 130 Livingston and 370 Jay, figure a way to get out of the 2 Broadway lease early, and move everyone to 347 Madison unless needed at a garage, yard, shop, or other heavy materiel facility.

(528927)

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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 16:33:59 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Fytton on Thu Dec 6 07:49:50 2007.

"As for competition, that's silly - the lines go to different places!"

Yes, it won't be competition to lure riders from one line to another. But I think there could be competition fostered between lines as to which line runs better, is cleaner, etc., with incentives paid to managers who accomplish the most each year.

(528928)

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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by Alex L. on Thu Dec 6 16:42:36 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Dec 6 16:21:02 2007.

347 Madison isn't big enough to hold everyone from those other three locations - even if they got rid of half the people involved.

(528954)

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Re: Whoa! Stupidity comes to the MTA

Posted by randyo on Thu Dec 6 18:27:42 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Stupidity comes to the MTA, posted by Railman718 on Thu Dec 6 07:26:57 2007.

It's not so much as a matter of cost as it is a matter of realistic operability. Just try to visualize the managers of all the lines that pass through Dekalb Av arguing among themselves as to which trains should take precedence in the event of a delay. If the Dekalb complex is under the control of one line manager, then the managers of the other lines that use the facility will just sit and point fingers at the one who caused delays to THEIR lines. In that case accountability will go down the toilet. Also connections between lines at express stations will suffer if the manager in charge of that station doesn't want HIS trains to be held for connections even during off peak or midnight hours when the headways are at their greatest. As for scheduling, back in 1986, the schedule section of RTO was moved into the newly created Operations Planning Department in an effort to standardize and streamline the sceduling process. Further Balkanizing this process will be a disaster. Even though the #7 and L lines do not themselves interact with any other lines, ridership patterns mandate that their timetables coordinate with other lines for connection purposes specifically the 7 to the N at QB Pl and the L with the J at Bway Jct during midnight hours. That is the problem with taking managers from "Toonerville Trolley" like systems where interaction between and among lines is either minimal or completely nonexistent rather than making sure that the home grown managers within the agency attain and maintain the exhaustively encyclopedic knowledge necessary to successfully run the NYC transit system.

(528955)

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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by randyo on Thu Dec 6 18:28:10 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Nilet on Thu Dec 6 01:31:51 2007.

See my post!

(528957)

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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by randyo on Thu Dec 6 18:29:54 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Railman718 on Thu Dec 6 00:17:50 2007.

I don't think there are any more at 370 Jay.

(528962)

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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by randyo on Thu Dec 6 18:39:17 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by MJF on Thu Dec 6 08:05:40 2007.

I sort of touched on that in my other post but it was quite lengthy so I cut it shorter than I would have liked. Your point is very valid, however. The supts' areas of responsibility should be changed back to something similar to the old zone trainmasters where each one has responsibility for all services passing through his area. If the TA wants to put a supt in charge of a given yard in his zone, that wouldn't be such a bad idea even for yards such as CIY which service multiple lines. The point that I was trying to make, and with which yo apparently agree, is that a system as complex as NY's isolation of managerial responsibilities by individual lines is simply not practical.

(528983)

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Re: Whoa! Stupidity comes to the MTA

Posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 19:19:26 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Stupidity comes to the MTA, posted by randyo on Thu Dec 6 18:27:42 2007.

I suspect that the MTA plan will have procedures for mediating or overruling disagreements among different line managers.

(528985)

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Re: Whoa! Stupidity comes to the MTA

Posted by Russ on Thu Dec 6 19:23:25 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Stupidity comes to the MTA, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 19:19:26 2007.

If they make their resolution process a cage match and put on pay-per-view, they'll make a mint!

A MINT!!!

(528987)

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Re: Whoa! Stupidity comes to the MTA

Posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 19:27:51 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Stupidity comes to the MTA, posted by Russ on Thu Dec 6 19:23:25 2007.

They should settle disagreements by a game of "subway chicken" where each side runs a train towards the other at full speed. First one to stop his train before impact loses.

(528988)

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Re: Whoa! Stupidity comes to the MTA

Posted by Russ on Thu Dec 6 19:29:19 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Stupidity comes to the MTA, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 19:27:51 2007.

Now you're thinking!

(528990)

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Re: Whoa! Stupidity comes to the MTA

Posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 19:34:05 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Stupidity comes to the MTA, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 19:27:51 2007.

Of course, since the train that didn't stop will still barrel into the other, they both die!

(528999)

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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by Kriston Lewis on Thu Dec 6 20:26:01 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Russ on Thu Dec 6 05:40:28 2007.

Canal Street is going turn into a zoo.

(529064)

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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by Forest Glen on Thu Dec 6 23:30:27 2007, in response to Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 00:04:27 2007.

Definitely a nice notion, but there are too many logistics issues for this to work out.

(529077)

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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Dec 6 23:45:47 2007, in response to Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 00:04:27 2007.

oooooo....i smell disaster pitting people on the same team against each other. Especially if they have to compete to run the same tracks(lack of chain of command).

that could be as bad as trying to BUILD a road or train over so many muni's. No one ever signs off.

(529082)

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First New Managers Appointed - was:Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by italianstallion on Fri Dec 7 00:12:14 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Dec 6 23:45:47 2007.

Times City Room Blog :

Greg Lombardi, a 28-year veteran and a superintendent in the car equipment division, will be the general manager of the 20-mile L line, which runs from Chelsea in Manhattan to Canarsie in Brooklyn and has 24 stations. (Mr. Lombardi’s father, Michael A. Lombardi, was the agency’s senior vice president for subways until his retirement earlier this year.) Demetrius Crichlow will be deputy general manager.

Lou Brusati, who joined the transit agency in 1981 and was most recently general superintendent for rapid transit operations, will be the superintendent for the 19-mile No. 7 line, which runs from Times Square to Flushing, Queens and serves 21 stations. John P. Hoban will be the deputy general manager of the No. 7 line.

Mr. Brusati and Mr. Lombardi will report to Steven Feil, the new senior vice president for subways, and “will be, in effect, operating their own railroads,” the agency said in a statement.


(529114)

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Re: First New Managers Appointed - was:Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by monorail on Fri Dec 7 03:12:28 2007, in response to First New Managers Appointed - was:Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by italianstallion on Fri Dec 7 00:12:14 2007.

Brusati is a good man for the job. If not the best there is!
He's also a buff, but not like the type to post here nor photograph.
I wish him all the best!
Something else for me to write in my Christmas card to him!

(529134)

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Re: First New Managers Appointed - was:Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by Railman718 on Fri Dec 7 05:17:09 2007, in response to First New Managers Appointed - was:Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by italianstallion on Fri Dec 7 00:12:14 2007.

Lou Brusati, who joined the transit agency in 1981 and was most recently general superintendent for rapid transit operations, will be the superintendent for the 19-mile No. 7 line, which runs from Times Square to Flushing, Queens and serves 21 stations. John P. Hoban will be the deputy general manager of the No. 7 line.

Good for Lou hes a OK guy...

Im sure hes going to do a good job, he really got that Duece together..



(529167)

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This isn't new (Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways)

Posted by Allan on Fri Dec 7 08:29:20 2007, in response to Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 00:04:27 2007.

How soon people forget.

Several years ago they had line managers (Marty Bauman was the Manager for the #6) for each line and service did improve for a little while and then the program quietly faded away.



(529184)

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Re: This isn't new (Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways)

Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Fri Dec 7 09:25:06 2007, in response to This isn't new (Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways), posted by Allan on Fri Dec 7 08:29:20 2007.

But they are also a glorified term for Line Superintendents, a title currently used today.

But the difference is the line managers are also responsible for stations along the route. So, who gets to mop the floors at Times Square? :-D

(529208)

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Re: First New Managers Appointed - was:Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by Zman179 on Fri Dec 7 10:26:09 2007, in response to First New Managers Appointed - was:Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by italianstallion on Fri Dec 7 00:12:14 2007.

Like Mono and Railman said, Lou Brusati is a good man. I don't think I've ever heard a bad word about him.

However, Lombardi is a wild card. I don't recall ever hearing a DCE man holding down such a position within RTO before. He might be a good man with a strong work ethic, but he's gonna have his hands full with that L line.

(529209)

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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Dec 7 10:29:32 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Dec 6 23:45:47 2007.

The (7) and the (L) are good lines to try this on. For other lines this may be more problematic.

Elsewhere however a different paradigm needs to evolve.

Say there is a Queensboro Superintendent, and say he owns all of the stations and the tracks on the Queensboro line, and even owns his own yards and rolling stock... Still his trains must leave his territory and enter that of Manhattan, and eventually into territory of Brooklyn. Once they cross under the river into Manhattan, his trains are operating on tracks of other supervisors, and he must negotiate with them for time slots, access and service. Does he also own 6th Avenue. Or just the Queens tracks on Sixth Avenue? Does he also own the Culver Line. That would make sense. But his (E) train would be a guest of the (A) line superintendent, and his (R) train would be the guest of the Broadway superintendent, or would he also own the Broadway Local tracks and the 4th Avenue Local Tracks in Brooklyn?

Suppose the Broadway Superintendent "owns" the Brighton and the Sea Beach lines, along with the Broadway Express tracks, and also the Second Avenue Subways as well. Yet he plays "host" to the (B) train, and on his Brighton Express tracks to boot! Or does the Concourse Superintendent own the Brighton Express while the Broadway Superintendent owns the Brighton Local Tracks.

This *could* make a whole new subway map. Is anybody up to the challenge?

ROAR

(529214)

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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Fri Dec 7 10:38:37 2007, in response to Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 00:04:27 2007.

Well here is one scenario, remember the D line fiasco at Dekalb bypass?:


D line mananger to Q LM: OK, there is a problem on the bypass, we need to send our D trains to YOUR track.

Q LM: Oh no you can't, our December on-time performance is slipping, talk to the F, maybe he can give you the OK to go via. Culver from West 4th.

B LM: Yea, some days we don't need a problem on the D line, it ties us up along 6th Ave, better yet, stay off 6th Ave and go via 8th Ave. I have enough problems with Charlies and Quincys.

F LM: Hell no, we have to operate efficently. With 4-5 minute headways, and freaking E and V service tying us up, I can't grant you any permission to use our tracks from West 4th to STL. Sorry, but I have to improve on our C grade.




(529219)

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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by trainsarefun on Fri Dec 7 10:55:07 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Fri Dec 7 10:38:37 2007.

This is what happens when curious statistics taken in isolation substitute for a holistic study of the system. This nonsense about one tower favoring 'its' trains, etc., is just sheer nonsense - the job of the railroad is to move people, not be in comparison over whose percentages and 'grades' are less worse than the others.

I see a lot of good in having one person in charge of a particular station or station complex, in charge of cleaning and keeping things in good order. In terms of lines, though, the system is a network, and I don't think that it can effectively be managed taking a route-by-route perspective.

As a rider, here's what I'm concerned with: do the trains run frequently and on-time and with reliability? Further on from that, how's the climate control, cleanliness, etc?

(529352)

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Re: First New Managers Appointed - was:Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by randyo on Fri Dec 7 16:49:55 2007, in response to Re: First New Managers Appointed - was:Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Zman179 on Fri Dec 7 10:26:09 2007.

Joe Hoffman from CED held the position of General Supt RTO (now known as ACTO) of the A Division in the m1d to late 1980s.

(529435)

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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Fri Dec 7 18:41:26 2007, in response to Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 6 00:04:27 2007.

Glad to see that he kept his word on cutting down on management and hworking with the TWU.
Sounds like several more layers of con artists, assistant con artists and more work for the labor relations department.

(529613)

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Re: First New Managers Appointed - was:Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by Pelham Bay Dave on Sat Dec 8 02:53:23 2007, in response to Re: First New Managers Appointed - was:Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Zman179 on Fri Dec 7 10:26:09 2007.

Yeah I get to have a front row seat to this. Brusati is the best person I can think for the job he is fair and gets things done. I wouldn't mine working for him. However this guy on the L Line I don't know he will have to prove himself.

(529702)

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Re: First New Managers Appointed - was:Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by MJF on Sat Dec 8 09:22:48 2007, in response to Re: First New Managers Appointed - was:Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Pelham Bay Dave on Sat Dec 8 02:53:23 2007.

Whe I worked the 7 line, Greg Lombardi was the Corona Barn Superintnedent. He was very approachable and very much involved. Easy to have a conversation with. The most telling thing about him...when he was transferred to CIYD many car inspectors from Corona picked over to CIYD the following pick.

(529708)

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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by monorail on Sat Dec 8 09:48:21 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Kriston Lewis on Thu Dec 6 20:26:01 2007.

thought it was a zoo

(529709)

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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by monorail on Sat Dec 8 09:50:24 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Dec 6 08:28:47 2007.

'What's on second, I Don't Know is on third, etc.:)'

I don't give a darn!

(529779)

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Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by Nilet on Sat Dec 8 12:57:34 2007, in response to Re: Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by monorail on Sat Dec 8 09:50:24 2007.

No, that's the shortstop.

(529927)

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Re: First New Managers Appointed - was:Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by Alex L. on Sat Dec 8 20:41:27 2007, in response to Re: First New Managers Appointed - was:Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by MJF on Sat Dec 8 09:22:48 2007.

While he was at CIYD, I spent 15 minutes being yelled at/arguing with him about whether my class of brand-new C/Rs could all be parked in his guy's spaces.

(529995)

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Re: First New Managers Appointed - was:Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by MJF on Sat Dec 8 23:05:50 2007, in response to Re: First New Managers Appointed - was:Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Alex L. on Sat Dec 8 20:41:27 2007.

I guess you were having a bad day.

Don't you know by now hourlies don't get decent parking privileges in CIYD.

(531144)

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Re: First New Managers Appointed - was:Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by Alex L. on Mon Dec 10 17:50:44 2007, in response to Re: First New Managers Appointed - was:Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by MJF on Sat Dec 8 23:05:50 2007.

These were '8 day on the job' Conductors - they didn't have ANY parking privileges. The one guy who had driven was parked on Shell Rd. The rest had taken mass transit.

(532106)

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Re: First New Managers Appointed - was:Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways

Posted by 15 BEECHHURST on Wed Dec 12 11:27:06 2007, in response to Re: First New Managers Appointed - was:Whoa! Competition Comes to the Subways, posted by Zman179 on Fri Dec 7 10:26:09 2007.

Knowing what I know of Greg, he will be fine. He learned from the best. he has come up through the ranks, he listens, and knows how to relate to people at all levels. It is a big job, but he will be mor ethan equal to it.

Not a wild card at all. A straight arrow and good railroad man.

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