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| F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? (489987) | |
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| (490011) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by PATHman on Fri Sep 14 10:02:38 2007, in response to F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by Chipper10 on Fri Sep 14 07:14:44 2007. It's not going to happen. There are too few cars. Even if it could happen why tease F riders will express service only to take it away when the construction begins? |
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| (490015) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by MATHA531 on Fri Sep 14 10:20:50 2007, in response to F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by Chipper10 on Fri Sep 14 07:14:44 2007. The key word of course being considered.... |
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| (490018) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Sep 14 10:29:54 2007, in response to F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by Chipper10 on Fri Sep 14 07:14:44 2007. I agree with PATHMAN. This is a no-brainer. If the viaduct needs rehabilitation, the TA's best decision is to start now and get it finished. By the time the work is complete, additional subway cars will have joined the fleet and we can talk about express service then. NYCTA is going to need to increase the fleet, because in 2013, the Q train will be extended to serve the new Second Av Subway stations; I hope there will be enough to go around.It's silly to defer rehabilitation work. This isn't like deferring surgery to see if your leg gets better on its own. The viaduct isn't going to get better on its own. |
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| (490022) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by zac on Fri Sep 14 10:45:48 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by PATHman on Fri Sep 14 10:02:38 2007. Aren't there 200+ R160s in service at this point? And they haven't scrapped anything yet. My guess would be they're running out of storage space but there are plenty of cars, and more coming every day.That still doesn't mean they'd run it. |
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| (490028) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by 33rd Street on Fri Sep 14 10:55:12 2007, in response to F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by Chipper10 on Fri Sep 14 07:14:44 2007. Fundings for additional cars? Ha. Best solution is not to retire any fleets due to the 160's arrival. |
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| (490031) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Sep 14 11:01:22 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by PATHman on Fri Sep 14 10:02:38 2007. Too few cars? We're about to scrap more than 1,000 cars between now and 2012. And they won't need that many to begin with. Express F service will reduce the number of trainsets necessary for overall F service, and running the V to Church will allow some peak F service to be eliminated. If the MTA could introduce the V in 2001 when not a single R143 was on the road, then it should be able to introduce the express service easily with what's available now. The real issue is cost. I'm not convinced the cost is worth it, especially since the F alone is more than adequate for off-peak Culver (IND and BMT sections) demand. |
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| (490040) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 14 11:26:44 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Sep 14 11:01:22 2007. Just a reminder: The 660 cars coming IN are going to replace a grand total of 28 cars...a handful of R42CIs, the R32GEs, and other cars which have been declared to be total losses, most from accidents. |
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| (490041) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 14 11:27:30 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by PATHman on Fri Sep 14 10:02:38 2007. There won't be too few. The 660 cars coming in are purely for service increases. Cars won't be retired until at least the first option. |
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| (490042) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Sep 14 11:29:57 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 14 11:26:44 2007. They're gonna replace more than that. We just don't know what or when. There's no room to keep all those cars around. |
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| (490044) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Fri Sep 14 11:31:44 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by PATHman on Fri Sep 14 10:02:38 2007. Um, not really because the (G) would be extended to make all local stops. |
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| (490045) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 14 11:33:13 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Sep 14 11:29:57 2007. There is room to store cars...and if there isn't NOW, room can be found. Just expect much more express track layups. The West End has an express track available by Bay 50, and the Culver has one available by Avenues U and X---to name a few. |
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| (490046) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Fri Sep 14 11:36:17 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 14 11:33:13 2007. Well, the Culver is also done between 18 avenue, and Avenue P. |
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| (490049) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by mambomta on Fri Sep 14 11:53:02 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by zac on Fri Sep 14 10:45:48 2007. Aren't there 200+ R160s in service at this point? And they haven't scrapped anything yet.When the L got R143s, the R40/M cars were not transferred to CIY right away. The R143 cars came in much quicker than the R40/M cars were sent out. |
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| (490052) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Fri Sep 14 12:07:39 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by zac on Fri Sep 14 10:45:48 2007. Well, they have scrapped R30's and old Ryder cars a couple of months ago, to make room in C.I.Y. for the R160's. |
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| (490055) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Sep 14 12:17:13 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 14 11:26:44 2007. No. The 660 coming in are to replace a total of roughly 600 cars. |
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| (490056) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Sep 14 12:18:46 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 14 11:27:30 2007. 100% incorrect!.Well... according to the press releases, 92% incorrect. |
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| (490057) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by JayJay85 on Fri Sep 14 12:24:48 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 14 11:27:30 2007. i kind agreed with you because TA will need extra cars for 2nd Avenue Line (Q and T lines) which T line will also run out of Coney Island yard, and any other lines that needs service increases.it should be about 200-300 car increase? |
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| (490058) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by metropod on Fri Sep 14 12:26:56 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 14 11:27:30 2007. where the heck are you getting that from?NYC subway.org's info->Base order (IE, the frist 660) will REPLACE: 10 R-32 (GE overhauls), all R-38, all slant R-40, 110 R-42 (Coney Island overhauls) with 53 etra 160 cars for service increases |
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| (490059) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Sep 14 12:28:31 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by metropod on Fri Sep 14 12:26:56 2007. What is being replaced has changed time and time again, but what hasnt changed is the fact that something most certainly will be replaced. |
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| (490060) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by JayJay85 on Fri Sep 14 12:29:13 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by metropod on Fri Sep 14 12:26:56 2007. true that TA could've change their minds? |
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| (490065) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Sep 14 12:33:36 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by JayJay85 on Fri Sep 14 12:29:13 2007. On what is being replaced, yes they have many times.What hasnt changed is that they are replacing cars. There really isnt enough space to store or maintain that many more cars at the moment. |
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| (490079) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Sep 14 13:27:40 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by PATHman on Fri Sep 14 10:02:38 2007. It's not going to happen. There are too few cars.It doesn't take more cars to run express service. In rush hour, simply make half the F trains express, and don't increase the number of trains. The only question is whether that it to the overall benefit of F train riders. |
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| (490089) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Fri Sep 14 13:41:31 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by R30A on Fri Sep 14 12:18:46 2007. But doesn't it make sense to hold onto some of the older trains to make sure the R160's all prove that they run w/out problems? Ie: mothballing them? |
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| (490090) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Fri Sep 14 13:42:44 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by R30A on Fri Sep 14 12:33:36 2007. Well what about the unused tracks on the A from North Aqueduct to JFK-Howard Beach? |
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| (490091) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Fri Sep 14 13:43:29 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by Grand concourse on Fri Sep 14 13:42:44 2007. Just add fences around the 2 tracks to keep out the vandals. |
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| (490095) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Sep 14 13:52:11 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Fri Sep 14 11:31:44 2007. The MTA would not get away with taking Manhattan service away from North Culver riders. |
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| (490096) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Sep 14 13:56:44 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by Grand concourse on Fri Sep 14 13:41:31 2007. I think roughly 200 cars are in, and about 20 cars are in various states of being retired.That would certainly imply there are spares... |
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| (490097) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Fri Sep 14 14:00:32 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by R30A on Fri Sep 14 13:56:44 2007. Sounds reasonable. |
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| (490098) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Fri Sep 14 14:03:04 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by JayJay85 on Fri Sep 14 12:24:48 2007. That's at least another 5 years down the road. And by then all that is needed to to just buy more cars. |
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| (490101) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by Michael549 on Fri Sep 14 14:13:54 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 14 11:33:13 2007. At one point in the 1970's and 1980's the Transit Authority had 7,000 subway cars. I still have the MTA Fact Sheet from then somewhere.On the elevated lines, one would see subway cars lined up on the middle track of the Pelham Bay line, the White Plains line, along the Broadway line. I'd see cars along the express tracks on the 4th Avenue line, the Brighton line, Sea Beach route, subway cars were parked along the express tracks to/from 179th Street. I've seen trains parked at both levels of Utica Avenue, along the middle track to/from Astoria. Yes, the MTA would probably prefer to store those trains in more protected areas To say that the Transit Authority simply does not have any more room to store subway trains, and therefore can not have any more subway cars is plain silly. Just my opinion. Mike |
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| (490102) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by metropod on Fri Sep 14 14:17:50 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by JayJay85 on Fri Sep 14 12:24:48 2007. they just ordered another 620 cars. if that's not enought extra, then i don't know what is. those new cars will be here in two to three years. the T, mean while, won't be here for another 7 atlest. and at that point, there is still a contract option for yet another 420 cars which will mostly be picked up in 2009 at the rate this is going. |
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| (490105) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Fri Sep 14 14:22:25 2007, in response to F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by Chipper10 on Fri Sep 14 07:14:44 2007. So an express (F) train will stop at Jay Street - Borough Hall, Bergen Street, 7 Avenue - Park Slope, and then Church Avenue? It's skipping a grand total of five stops. Woooow.[/sarcasm]What's scheduled to make those local stops? An extended (G)? Or an extended (V)? The (G) would HAVE to be extended, because they can't relay at 4 Avenue if the (F) is using the express tracks there. The (G) can relay at Church Avenue if needed. |
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| (490108) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by Michael549 on Fri Sep 14 14:32:23 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 14 11:33:13 2007. At one point in the 1970's and 1980's the Transit Authority had 7,000 subway cars. I still have the MTA Fact Sheet from then somewhere.On the elevated lines, one would see subway cars lined up on the middle track of the Pelham Bay line, the White Plains line, along the Broadway line. I'd see cars along the express tracks on the 4th Avenue line, the Brighton line, Sea Beach route, subway cars were parked along the express tracks to/from 179th Street. I've seen trains parked at both levels of Utica Avenue, along the middle track to/from Astoria. Yes, the MTA would probably prefer to store those trains in more protected areas To say that the Transit Authority simply does not have any more room to store subway trains, and therefore can not have any more subway cars is plain silly. Just my opinion. Mike |
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| (490110) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Fri Sep 14 14:32:34 2007, in response to F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by Chipper10 on Fri Sep 14 07:14:44 2007. |
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| (490111) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Fri Sep 14 14:36:39 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Sep 14 11:01:22 2007.  , is that some  s and sone  s went out the door. It's just a matter of playing with the trains per hour. |
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| (490114) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by shadyelstation on Fri Sep 14 15:07:59 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Sep 14 13:52:11 2007. The MTA would not get away with taking Manhattan service away from North Culver riders.Extend the (V) to Church. Problem solved. (Yes, I'm aware this is very simplistic and there's more that goes into extending lines, such as considering TPH.) |
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| (490117) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by PATHman on Fri Sep 14 15:15:21 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by G1Ravage on Fri Sep 14 14:22:25 2007. In an ideal world it would be able to terminate at Hoyt-Schermerhorn so the V could be extended to Church and operate as the local while the F would run express. Realistically maybe the V and G could both terminate at Church. |
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| (490119) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by shadyelstation on Fri Sep 14 15:20:08 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by PATHman on Fri Sep 14 15:15:21 2007. In an ideal world it would be able to terminate at Hoyt-Schermerhorn so the V could be extended to Church and operate as the local while the F would run express.No, that would not be ideal. The (G) does NOT interfere with a (V) extension (at least not anymore than it does with the (F), and the (V) has fewer TPH than the (F) anyway). Also, the (G) and (V) can both terminate at Church without getting in the way of the (F) express. Check the track alignment here for proof. Realistically maybe the V and G could both terminate at Church. Yes, this is what should be done if MTA decides to run the (F) express in Brooklyn. |
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| (490123) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Sep 14 15:33:34 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by PATHman on Fri Sep 14 15:15:21 2007. No offense, but cutting the (G) back to Hoyt is a dumb idea and only makes Culver riders lose Crosstown service and vice-versa. |
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| (490126) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by P-rad M on Fri Sep 14 15:48:00 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Sep 14 15:33:34 2007. And to add to that fact, the (G) can't terminate at Hoyt because there are no switchs no where neat Hoyt on the (G) line. Which is something most should know but just stating that fact to PATHman. |
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| (490127) | |
oops, typoRe: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by P-rad M on Fri Sep 14 15:49:23 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by P-rad M on Fri Sep 14 15:48:00 2007. there are no switchs no where near* Hoyt on the (G) line |
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| (490130) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by JayJay85 on Fri Sep 14 16:07:14 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by metropod on Fri Sep 14 14:17:50 2007. i agreed with you |
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| (490132) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by PATHman on Fri Sep 14 16:12:28 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Sep 14 15:33:34 2007. Riders primarily want service to Manhattan, not to other points in Brooklyn. The G simply gets in the way. People needing the G can transfer. |
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| (490136) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by shadyelstation on Fri Sep 14 16:27:54 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by PATHman on Fri Sep 14 16:12:28 2007. Truncating the (G) forces its patrons, as well as those commuting from Manhattan to transfer twice. Once is enough.IMHO it's much better to send the (G) to Church and give its riders access to the 4th Ave transfer than it is to truncate it and introduce another transfer. |
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| (490138) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by PATHman on Fri Sep 14 16:33:35 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by shadyelstation on Fri Sep 14 16:27:54 2007. Is the G really that important? The F and V would provide service along the Culver corridor. The vast majority of customers would be happy since those trains would head to Manhattan. It would be a waste of trainsets and money to send the G to Church. People would use the G, but not enough to make it worthwhile. |
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| (490140) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by 33rd Street on Fri Sep 14 16:42:34 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by PATHman on Fri Sep 14 16:33:35 2007. Suppose those riders don't want Manhattan as their desination. The G is important because they won't have to enter Manhattan. |
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| (490144) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Sep 14 16:53:38 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by R30A on Fri Sep 14 12:17:13 2007. That's what I thought. What types of the 600 cars is the real question. |
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| (490147) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Sep 14 16:59:59 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by PATHman on Fri Sep 14 16:33:35 2007. But there is no place short of Smith-9th to turn a (G) train, and if an express is running then that does not exist and the next nearest terminal would be Church.HOYT CANNOT DO IT. (PERIOD). . . ROAR |
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| (490164) | |
Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility? |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Sep 14 17:48:02 2007, in response to Re: F train express in Brooklyn in 2008 a possibility?, posted by Michael549 on Fri Sep 14 14:32:23 2007. It's not your opinion, however...it happens to be a known fact. Even taking into account 746 R46s, 272 or so R44s, and 825 R68s, that still would come out to about 6900 cars currently, in flux because of future R160 deliveries. |
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