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| Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) (422846) | |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by BIE on Fri May 4 07:50:10 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by SMAZ on Fri May 4 02:53:40 2007. Perhaps the union should stick to wage and hour issues but have NO involvement in disciplinary matters. NYPD is UNDERPAID. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Fri May 4 09:02:13 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by RonInBayside on Thu May 3 21:27:14 2007. It is a very impressive calendar. It makes you a published author. It has cachet.Hmmm...I never thought of it that way, thanks for the compliment. Anyway, you are doing whatever feels good to you. Yes, photography is what I like to do. Bill "Newkirk" |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri May 4 09:06:48 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Newkirk Images on Thu May 3 17:40:42 2007. At least you don't go around saying, "HMAHHHH!! HMAAHHHHH!!! FMAHHHHH!!":) |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri May 4 09:09:00 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 4 04:33:42 2007. And we all know that Rudy is afraid of the sound of his own farts. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by LA Blue Line on Fri May 4 09:20:09 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by sic transit gloria on Fri May 4 04:00:50 2007. You are only partly correct. It's not some arbitrary definition of suspicion where they don't like the way that someone looks or what he's doing. They have to have reasonable suspicion that a crime either occurred or is about to occur. If they felt that the situation met those criteria all that is required of Nilet is that he identify himself. Technically he is not even required to show ID, but I wouldn't recommend that approach. They are only allowed to frisk him for weapons (hard objects on his person). They obviously went well beyond that. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri May 4 09:20:45 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Nilet on Thu May 3 21:49:58 2007. This person didn't even have the chance to do that, as the thug pulled this man over and then blew him away right there. (The person who did this is currently serving a life sentence.) |
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Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED! |
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Posted by JPC on Fri May 4 09:41:02 2007, in response to Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!, posted by Fred G on Fri May 4 03:21:27 2007. LOL, yes, hard to believe but true... :P |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Fri May 4 09:43:30 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Fred G on Fri May 4 05:13:50 2007. However, I take exception to someone crowing about what a smart thing they did when in reality all they did was run away.Crowing? I never knew my voice sounds like a rooster ! I wouldn't want be the adviser on what to do in a situation like this. But what I basically feel is that while I want to have the freedom to live my hobby, I don't want any trouble. If I'm attracting attention, then trouble will follow. Look what happened at 125th St, nothing ! I was at both ends of the platform, even waved to a T/O to show that I'm cool with what i'm doing and not to worry. I wish this was like the old days when your only hassle was people giving you funny looks, like "what the hell is he taking pictures of, dirty trains". Yes Fred, I see you point and others who may feel I did the wrong thing. Call me sneaky but I feel like taking a picture or two and leaving unnoticed. maybe you can say I like to fly under the radar. Once I was on PATH photographing at Harrison station. There was a GO on where the Newark bound trains were wrong railing on the NY bound side. As the train entered,an engineer waved his finger side to side in a gesture of "photography is a no-no." And this was before 9-11. Bill "Newkirk" |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by tankertom on Fri May 4 09:51:42 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Newkirk Images on Fri May 4 09:02:13 2007. My first visit; my first post. Anecdote: I got here looking for photos/specs on the Grant Avenue station of the BMT Fulton Street el above Liberty Avenue which was demolished in 1956 when the IND "A" line was extended into Queens. A response to one of my inquiries to the TA was that info could not be released because of "security concerns". Imagine that, the station hasn't existed for over fifty years and they are still concerned about it's security! A fellow member of the ERA (Electric Railroaders Association) suggested Subchat. The "Robbed by a cop" thread immediately caught my eye. I'm a retired Transit Cop (pre-merger) and just retired from my second career as a lawyer. I'm still a member of the Bar. One of my assignments with the Transit Police was acting as the Department Advocate handling disciplinary cases against police officers on charges brought either by the cop's supervisor(s) or on civilian complaints. If the recipient of the poor treatment giving rise to this thread desires to pursue this matter I'd be glad to discuss his options with him. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by railbus63 on Fri May 4 10:02:04 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Nilet on Thu May 3 18:44:08 2007. Refusal to consent to a search cannot constitute probable cause.Would you allow a random stranger to look through your pictures? I get scared when people say: "Why bother with your constitutional rights? If you're not doing anything wrong, you won't get in trouble, right?" Yes, I would. These were not random strangers ... they were uniformed police officers with authority to patrol the station. If I were in your situation, I would have absolutely allowed them to look through my pictures. You said I should report it to the NYPD, yet you also said I shouldn't record their badge numbers... Read my post more carefully - the point I was making about the badge numbers is that I believe you escalated the situation by asking for them. Once everything went down the way it allegedly did, then I agree that you absolutely should get their numbers and report the situation. I hope you are successful as you pursue this with the NYPD, but I can't agree with the tactics you used during this encounter. Jim |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri May 4 10:03:29 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Newkirk Images on Fri May 4 09:43:30 2007. Yes Fred, I see you point and others who may feel I did the wrong thing.No, I don't think anyone here thinks you did the wrong thing. You did NOTHING wrong. You simply just didn't help the situation. But you also didn't hurt the situation. You did what was best for you, and that's fine, if you don't mind leaving a photo location whenever told to. But what I believe Fred is saying, and I agree with him, is that there's no point in recommending your method or touting it as a good method. What works for you doesn't necessarily benefit the community at large. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri May 4 10:05:32 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by tankertom on Fri May 4 09:51:42 2007. That's very generous of you! I hope he takes your offer!And welcome! I'm sure you'll have a lot of good stuff to add to our discussions here. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by JPC on Fri May 4 10:20:27 2007, in response to How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by railbus63 on Thu May 3 13:07:29 2007. You crossed the line when you accused the officers of unreasonable search and seizure when all they were doing was looking at the photos on your camera.This is the definition of unreasonable search and seizure, and he was entirely within his rights vis a vis the Fourth Amendment and all pursuant case law, to refuse consent to said search on those grounds. Recording badge numbers - something else he's entirely within his rights to do - in fact they are required to give them if asked. These officers will no doubt have detailed reports which justify their decision to stop you on the platform and later putting you in cuffs. The cuffs would be a difficult one. Cuffing a suspect is appropriate in only two cases (which to a great extent are interchangeable): (a) if the suspect is being placed under arrest; (b) if the officer has reason to believe the suspect is an imminent physical threat to himself, the officer(s) or others. Otherwise, no cuffs (unless this is a "scared straight" program for teens upon which their parents have signed off, or a motel that charges by the hour, has beds that take quarters and the handcuffs are pink). Where you may have a point is not in what was said, but in how it was said. Being non-accusative and non-confrontational is almost always to your advantage. You can assert your rights without comparing the officer to Hitler (or insert your despot of choice). |
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Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called |
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Posted by JPC on Fri May 4 10:25:52 2007, in response to Another Update: The CCRB Called, posted by Nilet on Thu May 3 18:53:11 2007. I would suggest going with mediation.The bottom line is, you're not going to get anything out of a lawsuit. Either the city will settle out with you and that's the end of that (you get some cash but other than that nothing happens) or it'll go to trial, and chances are you won't get anything. If you choose the mediation route, you meet face-to-face with the officers (I believe they are required to be in plain clothes, no uniforms). The arbitrator may also request that lawyers, PBA mediators, etc. have to leave the room as well, so it's just you, the arbitrator and the officers. Then you get to explain your side of the story, and they explain theirs. It's the best time to get across that it's not your intent to be vindictive, that you understand their position (if they are able to articulate it), and perhaps why they acted the way they did, and you can reach some mutual understanding. These officers probably had no idea that our hobby exists - now's your chance to tell them about it. Maybe they need to be reminded that among the panoply of people out there that will lie through their teeth to get out of tickets, there are still some honest ones out there, who will give a straight answer to a straight question, and that you did so on that day. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by American Pig on Fri May 4 10:43:44 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by BMTLines on Fri May 4 07:39:06 2007. One time I was ticketed for parking at a broken meter - trouble was every meter on the block was broken.Huh? Parking at a broken meter is free, or did you park longer than an hour? |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri May 4 10:48:23 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by SMAZ on Fri May 4 02:43:00 2007. IF a judge would issue such an order, it is not likely that NYC or the NYPD would appeal it. Bad pubs you know.ROAR |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri May 4 10:49:58 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by BIE on Fri May 4 07:50:10 2007. Discipline is defacto a union issue.All violations are a breach of the contract. ROAR |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri May 4 10:56:16 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by LA Blue Line on Fri May 4 09:20:09 2007. In order to have "reasonable suspicion" they MUST be able to articulate in words EXACTLY what that suspicion is. Ideally that needs to be written in their day book shortly after the encounter.If they are unable to do this, or at an investigation do not have it written down, then Nilet *does* have a case. His lawyer can request to see the officer's day book for that date. ROAR |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri May 4 11:02:37 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by American Pig on Fri May 4 10:43:44 2007. Most places, parking at a broken meter is illegal.ROAR |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri May 4 11:09:35 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Broadway Lion on Fri May 4 11:02:37 2007. Used to be that way here, also. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by LA Blue Line on Fri May 4 11:26:40 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by JPC on Fri May 4 10:20:27 2007. Cuffing a suspect is appropriate in only two cases (which to a great extent are interchangeable):(a) if the suspect is being placed under arrest; (b) if the officer has reason to believe the suspect is an imminent physical threat to himself, the officer(s) or others. I'm almost positive that is not correct. I know that LAPD and LASD will cuff suspected criminals until they determine that the suspect is not a threat. You've stated it the other way around. Maybe the NYPD operates differently. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by American Pig on Fri May 4 11:27:38 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Broadway Lion on Fri May 4 11:02:37 2007. BMTLines was not talking about most places, he was talking about one place. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by BMTLines on Fri May 4 11:36:38 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by American Pig on Fri May 4 10:43:44 2007. Huh? Parking at a broken meter is free, or did you park longer than an hour?It was a 2 hour meter - they said I was there more than the time limit on the meter but I wanted a complete explanation of how they determine how much time you spend there - methods of observation, etc. My argument was that a meter maid cannot possibly remember what car is parked where two hours later. Whenever I get a ticket I make the city work for my money. Used to be very easy back in the day when tickets were handwritten. I used to beat about 75% of my tickets by scrutinizing them carefully and pointing out omissions that invalidated the ticket. The good news is that I have not received a parking ticket in 2 years!! I have a parking space at work and a garage at home so that helps :-) |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by BMTLines on Fri May 4 11:47:52 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by tankertom on Fri May 4 09:51:42 2007. Anecdote: I got here looking for photos/specs on the Grant Avenue station of the BMT Fulton Street el above Liberty Avenue which was demolished in 1956 when the IND "A" line was extended into QueensIronically surplus copies of the contract drawings were sold by the Transit Museum to the general public years ago. This info is in various private collections.... |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri May 4 13:04:32 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by BMTLines on Fri May 4 11:36:38 2007. At the risk of getting dissed because this place is not that place, in Bismarck the parking enforcement officer (there are no meters) drives by and puts a chalk mark of a certain color on your wheel.When back they come again, if you are still there, a ticket you will get. ROAR |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri May 4 13:14:02 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by LA Blue Line on Fri May 4 11:26:40 2007. I know that LAPD and LASD will cuff suspected criminals until they determine that the suspect is not a threat.My guess is that isn't true. I believe JPC's wording more. Do the police by you handcuff every person that stop and talk to? If not, then they only handcuff those that they believe to be threat. However they could very quickly determine that there is no threat, based upon additional information, and then uncuff the person. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri May 4 13:23:06 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by SMAZ on Fri May 4 02:53:40 2007. Working for peanuts is no excuse to resort to bribes especially if you're charged to uphold the law. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri May 4 13:54:13 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by tankertom on Fri May 4 09:51:42 2007. Thanks for helping out. MTA and NYPD are world class organizations but they can get pretty stupid about some things and need outside help to fly straight. |
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Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called |
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Posted by Dave on Fri May 4 13:54:38 2007, in response to Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called, posted by JPC on Fri May 4 10:25:52 2007. Mediations use mediators, not arbitrators. The difference is that a mediator is not empowered to issue a ruling or decision; he/she is there to help the parties reach an understanding or agreement. |
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Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 4 13:58:08 2007, in response to Another Update: The CCRB Called, posted by Nilet on Thu May 3 18:53:11 2007. Go to mediation, but insist that the police admit they are wrong to prohibit photography. |
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Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called |
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Posted by tankertom on Fri May 4 14:17:49 2007, in response to Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called, posted by Dave on Fri May 4 13:54:38 2007. In general mediations are not binding but arbitration decisions are. Believe it or not, our courts will enforce an arbitrator's decision even if it is based on incorrect facts and erroneous law. You can't beat that: The arbitrator gets both the facts and the law wrong, yet the decision will be upheld. Thnk God for lawyers! |
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Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called |
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Posted by tankertom on Fri May 4 14:27:14 2007, in response to Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 4 13:58:08 2007. Mediation? so what good does that do? The parties shake hands and walk away friends. Next time it'll be a different cop. I know I'm sticking my nose where it doesn't belong, but if it's worth the trouble and effort to make a complaint and pursue the matter, whether to arbitration, mediation, CCRB, etc., I can't see any better choice than to bring a legal action. If you only get $3000 to $15000 that's still enough to buy a new camera, lenses, whatnot... and the lawyer does all the work anyway. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Fri May 4 14:51:21 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by tankertom on Fri May 4 09:51:42 2007. If the recipient of the poor treatment giving rise to this thread desires to pursue this matter I'd be glad to discuss his options with him.I hope Nilet is aware of this. Any help would be appreciated. Bill "Newkirk" |
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Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri May 4 14:56:39 2007, in response to Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called, posted by tankertom on Fri May 4 14:27:14 2007. "I know I'm sticking my nose where it doesn't belong,"Why do you think that? |
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Re: Update of the Update (Re: Cop Incident) |
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Posted by mambomta on Fri May 4 14:58:41 2007, in response to Re: Update of the Update (Re: Cop Incident), posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Tue May 1 13:35:59 2007. "For your saftey as well as ours we will handcuff you as my partner goes to the booth to check your metrocard" is exactly what the PO told me as he put on the braclets.They accused me of using a student metrocard when in fact I entered right after a student and the cop thought the light was for my swipe not the kid ahead. I have seen cops check Metrocards without handcuffing people. |
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Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri May 4 15:00:04 2007, in response to Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called, posted by tankertom on Fri May 4 14:17:49 2007. There are risks to arbitration; it's true. On the other hand, most arbitrators are honest and educated, and a good arbitrator can provide a ruling that provides justice, equity and common sense. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by BIE on Fri May 4 15:46:06 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Broadway Lion on Fri May 4 10:49:58 2007. Remove those issues from the contract. |
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Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called |
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Posted by BIE on Fri May 4 15:47:34 2007, in response to Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 4 13:58:08 2007. He should get the advice of counsel. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by JPC on Fri May 4 15:57:45 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by LA Blue Line on Fri May 4 11:26:40 2007. What you're saying would imply the police can come up and handcuff anyone right on the street until that person can prove they are not a threat. That is exactly what this nation's laws and constitution are designed to NOT allow to happen.In general, NO, an officer cannot walk up to you out of a clear blue sky and put you in cuffs until you can prove you shouldn't be in them. In some localities (NYC is one) an officer CAN pat down the outside of your clothing (a so-called Terry stop, intended to search for weapons but more often used to find narcotics or other contraband) but cannot force you to remove clothing or reach inside pockets or underneath articles of clothing without probable cause. If you're wearing a heavy coat and it's buttoned up, the officer can pat down the outside of your coat, but cannot compel you to open it, or remove it, and cannot reach inside (which is usually a bad idea anyway due to risk of needle sticks and other sharps out of sight). That being said, courts are generally deferential to an officer's claims about safety, so in iffy cases you're unlikely to win anything, if the officer can come up with a justifiable fear - "I thought he may have had a weapon." Furtive actions (like putting your hands in your pockets or keeping them otherwise out of sight), or aggressive posture or statements can lead to such fear, and increase your risk of being cuffed. |
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Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called |
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Posted by JPC on Fri May 4 15:59:09 2007, in response to Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called, posted by Dave on Fri May 4 13:54:38 2007. Thank you Dave, yes, the facilitator would be called a mediator, not an arbitrator, since in such cases no legally binding decision is rendered, merely a mutual agreement between parties.Poor choice of words on my part. |
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Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called |
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Posted by JPC on Fri May 4 16:08:42 2007, in response to Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called, posted by tankertom on Fri May 4 14:27:14 2007. $3000 to $15000? The lawyer will probably end up getting most of it.Lawsuits that settle out do not generally result in sweeping changes to existing procedures. That's what I meant when I said the case would (at best) be settled and that's the end of it. They settle, pay out to who they have to, and go back to what they were doing before. Only if there is intense media coverage, only if bigwigs are subpoenaed to testify, only if large-scale investigations take place, do such grand changes take place. And honestly, unless there is a SERIOUS breach (i.e. a detained railfan photographer died in police custody, or the photographer who is harassed is an award-winning world-famous documentarian with connections in high places) will that take place. Stopped for a little while, cuffed and your photos deleted just doesn't cut it. Civil courts are primarily damage-driven, in that the size of their actions is proportional to the amount of damage done. No damage, no action. Little damage, little action (such as an out-of-court settlement). Having your pictures deleted and being cuffed for a little while qualifies as little damage. On the other hand, by choosing mediation, there is at least one officer out there who knows that we exist, who knows that subway photography is legal (within the limitations of 1050.0(c)), that the proposed photoban was just that - proposed, and then dropped - and that we do not represent a security risk the way some would have everyone believe. And one is a hell of a lot more than zero. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri May 4 17:19:33 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by BIE on Fri May 4 15:46:06 2007. They are there to PROTECT both the worker and the city. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri May 4 20:04:13 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Newkirk Images on Fri May 4 09:43:30 2007. Bill, you're not wrong, I just wouldn't do it that way and don't recommend it is all. There's no basket of barbed wire between us.your pal, Fred |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by BIE on Fri May 4 20:25:48 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Broadway Lion on Fri May 4 17:19:33 2007. If a cop is suspected of abusing a citizen, he should seek his own counsel. Of course it does not surprise me that you take the side of the authorities. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri May 4 20:39:22 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by Broadway Lion on Fri May 4 11:02:37 2007. That is odd...in New York City, one is allowed to park at a broken meter for one hour only, even if the posted regulation is longer. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri May 4 20:40:43 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by BMTLines on Fri May 4 11:36:38 2007. However, today, if you were parked for 1 hour and 15 minutes at that broken 2 hour meter, you could receive a summons. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri May 4 20:44:08 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by BIE on Thu May 3 19:07:31 2007. The city wants to raise it to $38,000 a year while in the academy, but the problem is that the PBA is averse to any givebacks (the two givebacks the city wants are less vacation days and night differential for rookies)---in short, what the firefighters' union agreed to (subject to a vote by the membership).It is so bad that the city is locked in a court battle to force its pick to be the arbitrator, because the PBA said it didn't object to any of them until it was too late. BTW, Pat Lynch has never negotiated a contract for his members---it has always gone to arbitration. |
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Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!) |
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Posted by BIE on Fri May 4 20:58:39 2007, in response to Re: How NOT to handle an encounter with police (Re: ROBBED BY A COP— PROPERTY DESTROYED!), posted by AMoreira81 on Fri May 4 20:44:08 2007. If anyone deserves Night differential, it is a cop. Night is DANGEROUS and most crime occurs at night. As for vacations, I cannot speak to that but "mental health" days are certainly something a cop would need. |
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Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called |
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Posted by tankertom on Fri May 4 21:41:44 2007, in response to Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called, posted by RonInBayside on Fri May 4 14:56:39 2007. I don't really know for sure, Ron; maybe an insecure person's defensive mechanism. I guess I could go into therapy to find out but I'd rather spend my money on toy trains. |
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Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called |
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Posted by tankertom on Fri May 4 21:46:59 2007, in response to Re: Another Update: The CCRB Called, posted by RonInBayside on Fri May 4 15:00:04 2007. I agree. But there's no recourse if even an honest mistake is made. |
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