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| Tracks beyond Euclid Ave (408426) | |
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| (408453) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by South Ferry on Thu Mar 29 00:13:13 2007, in response to Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by NewLots#2 on Wed Mar 28 23:18:42 2007. I was out there yonder earlier "looking" for these traxx...seen 10+ Steel R38 sets running to teh Rockaways after 6pm on teh A. Do you mean the ones that dip down before the A gets to Grant Ave. or the ones that merge-in from the sides AFTER Grant Ave? (--I think those R Pitkin Yard, no??) |
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| (408456) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by South Ferry on Thu Mar 29 00:16:13 2007, in response to Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by South Ferry on Thu Mar 29 00:13:13 2007. Especially KICKIN myself after grabbing the first RFW Lefferts set I saw (and had to put up with a HIGHLY ETCHED AND TAGGED RFW) and when I go to turn back nb, THE NEXT CONSIST WAS ALSO A 38 SET WITH SCRATCH-FREE WINDOW. Counted about 10+ sets outbound on teh A around 6pm south of 14&8 |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (408472) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by SilverFox on Thu Mar 29 00:54:52 2007, in response to Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by NewLots#2 on Wed Mar 28 23:18:42 2007. That four-track line was to be a tri-county cooperative effort to bring local subway service to Montauk Point along the south shore of Long Island. Reports have had it that there was actually an IND-style subway built during the 1930s that supposedly linked the Hamptons and Montauk, and maybe ran as far west as Shirley. Unfortunately, funding dried up due to World War II and this line, with completed stations and fixtures, was first orphaned and then sealed and backfilled, never having run a train. The Queens portion was to run past Euclid Avenue with stops at 76th Street (where there exists a full station with ample evidence of its existence and several R-9 cars modified for running along this mega-line that were forgotten after testing and trapped by the backfilling that later occurred), Cross Bay Boulevard, Van Wyck Expressway/Kennedy Airport, 150th Street, Farmers Boulevard, North Hangar Road, Rockaway Blvd, Sunrise Highway/Laurelton Expressway, and Hook Creek Boulevard. To avoid jurisdictional issues, the tracks ended at a "sliding table track" able to shift entire trains and their passengers onto an adjoining set of Nassau County rails that began at the Queens/Nassau border, where newly-appointed motormen and conductors from the new MTA Nassau Subway division would take over until a similar arrangement was reached at the Suffolk Border, where -- you guessed it! -- MTA Suffolk Subway crewmembers would pilot the train to Montauk with maybe a crew change in Shirley. For what is now $2.00 and about six-and-a-half hours of riding through stations every quarter of a mile or so, you could have ridden R-38s with a railfan window, in complete darkness, to Montauk Point from the nether-reaches of The Bronx! |
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| (408501) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Jeff H. on Thu Mar 29 03:04:49 2007, in response to Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by NewLots#2 on Wed Mar 28 23:18:42 2007. In the words of Daffy Duck: "Oh NO! Not AGAIN!" |
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| (408526) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Thu Mar 29 04:53:18 2007, in response to Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by NewLots#2 on Wed Mar 28 23:18:42 2007. The next stations would be:76th St (local) [possibly a second local station] Cross Bay Blvd (probably express) It would then have continued under (IIRC) Linden Av to 229th St, with the only known station the interchange with the Van Wyck Blvd Line. |
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| (408597) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Mar 29 08:56:43 2007, in response to Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by SilverFox on Thu Mar 29 00:54:52 2007. This would have made a great post on Sunday.:) |
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| (408598) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Mar 29 08:57:23 2007, in response to Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by Jeff H. on Thu Mar 29 03:04:49 2007. Or as Yogi Berra would say, "It's deja vu all over again." |
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| (408604) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Mar 29 09:49:21 2007, in response to Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Mar 29 08:56:43 2007. not really |
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| (408606) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Mar 29 09:57:54 2007, in response to Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by NewLots#2 on Wed Mar 28 23:18:42 2007. HTTP://WWW.NYCSUBWAY.ORG |
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| (408625) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 29 10:40:35 2007, in response to Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by SilverFox on Thu Mar 29 00:54:52 2007. I thought the line was supposed to end in S/E Queens around Springfield/229. This is the first time I've heard about the line going out Montauk. Unless BOT had ideas about taking over the LIRR Montauk line. what else have you heard? |
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| (408645) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Mar 29 11:47:57 2007, in response to Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by NewLots#2 on Wed Mar 28 23:18:42 2007. The mane lion was supposed to go to Cross Bay Blvd, and then via Linden to the county lion. Was a nice idea.Yes those four tracks dip down, if they did not do so, they would pop out of the ground and be an elevated train, for the ground drops of sharply at that place. ROAR |
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| (408659) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by GIS Man on Thu Mar 29 12:15:09 2007, in response to Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 29 10:40:35 2007. I think BOT is pulling our collective legs, bubbie!:) Bob |
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| (408661) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by GIS Man on Thu Mar 29 12:19:30 2007, in response to Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 29 10:40:35 2007. Sorry about that! I meant that Silver Fox is pulling our collective legs.Bob |
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Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Mar 29 13:01:42 2007, in response to Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by GIS Man on Thu Mar 29 12:19:30 2007. So far the only person fooled seems to be Douce Man. |
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| (408679) | |
Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 29 13:07:01 2007, in response to Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Mar 29 13:01:42 2007. I'm just wondering what Silver Fox knows. |
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| (408682) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 29 13:11:04 2007, in response to Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by GIS Man on Thu Mar 29 12:15:09 2007. Or Silver Fox was wrong about the IND line going out to Montauk. |
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| (408687) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 29 13:24:37 2007, in response to Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by Rail Blue on Thu Mar 29 04:53:18 2007. Cross Bay Blvd probably would have also been the last transfer point for service going to Aqueduct, Howard Beach and the Rockaways. |
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| (408692) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Mar 29 13:36:04 2007, in response to Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by SilverFox on Thu Mar 29 00:54:52 2007. You had me, all the way through the first paragraph. Am I than easy to fool? |
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| (408693) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Mar 29 13:36:39 2007, in response to Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by SilverFox on Thu Mar 29 00:54:52 2007. You had me, all the way through the first paragraph. Am I thaT easy to fool? |
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| (408698) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Mar 29 13:41:11 2007, in response to Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by NewLots#2 on Wed Mar 28 23:18:42 2007. The original 1929 plan was for the whole line to run to Springfield Gardens, with a branch heading south through what is now JFK. The 1939 plan had the tracks connecting to the Rockaway line at Pitkin Ave. |
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| (408699) | |
Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Mar 29 13:42:15 2007, in response to Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 29 13:07:01 2007. That's exactly what I said. |
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| (408700) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Mar 29 13:44:55 2007, in response to Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 29 13:11:04 2007. Douce Man, you, and only you, were fooled. What Silver Fox posted goes against everything on NYCSubway.org, everything in all the popular books, and all common sense. No one in their right mind, after reading his post, could have even entertained the thought that he was being serious. |
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| (408703) | |
Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 29 13:53:02 2007, in response to Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Mar 29 13:42:15 2007. I'm waiting for him to answer.Silver Fox made the statement about the line going out to Montauk. |
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| (408706) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 29 13:57:19 2007, in response to Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Mar 29 13:44:55 2007. Silver Fox made the statement that the line was to have gone to Montauk.I really doubt if the line was supposed to go that far out. I just want to know what he knows and where he read it. |
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| (408708) | |
Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Mar 29 13:59:40 2007, in response to Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 29 13:53:02 2007. I'm waiting for him to answer.That's exactly what I said. You were the only person fooled. |
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| (408709) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Mar 29 14:00:13 2007, in response to Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 29 13:57:19 2007. Silver Fox made the statement that the line was to have gone to Montauk.I really doubt if the line was supposed to go that far out. I just want to know what he knows and where he read it. Like I already said, you were the only person fooled. |
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| (408711) | |
Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 29 14:05:12 2007, in response to Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Mar 29 13:59:40 2007. Chris R16/R2730 seems to have been also fooled. He said to Silver Fox in another section of the thread:"You had me, all the way through the first paragraph. Am I than easy to fool?" |
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| (408712) | |
Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Mar 29 14:07:41 2007, in response to Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 29 14:05:12 2007. I saw that. I read the entire thread. But Chris R16/R2730 was not fooled. As soon as he got to the second paragraph he realized what was going on. |
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| (408720) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by TunnelRat on Thu Mar 29 14:27:43 2007, in response to Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by NewLots#2 on Wed Mar 28 23:18:42 2007. When this line IS built,Tunnelrat will be the 1st.m/m. |
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| (408787) | |
Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by NewLots#2 on Thu Mar 29 17:13:50 2007, in response to Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Mar 29 14:07:41 2007. See I had heard that this line was supposed to end in London, after going through to Montauk and then via tunnel. That would've been a nice tunnel run. |
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| (408799) | |
Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Mar 29 17:56:28 2007, in response to Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by NewLots#2 on Thu Mar 29 17:13:50 2007. Better reenable field shunting before sending the cars through.On second thought, the subway to London would get a lot of traffic if they stopped subsidizing the airlines, even without field shunting. |
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| (408815) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Mar 29 18:46:53 2007, in response to Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Mar 29 13:41:11 2007. I recently came into possession of a repro of a 1940 Hagstrom subway map which shows the Fulton/Pitkin subway under construction. What is strange about this map is that it does not show Bway/ENY station even though the station shell was substantially completed at the time the map was published. Other than that, it shows the stations between Rockaway Av and Euclid as ultimately built. S/O Euclid, the stations are shown as being at 75 Street (now known as 76 Street) right on the Bkln/Queens border, 85 Street, Cross Bay Blvd, and a terminal at 106 Street right by Aqueduct Race Track. The notation indicates that the line as far as 106 St was to open in 1943. Just how much of the subway shell S/O ENY was built at the time of the maps publication, I don't know, nor do I know how much of the subway shell was constructed between that time and late 1941 or so when construction had to be suspended due to the war. According to the late trainmaster George Abere, part of the infrastructure of Pitkin Yard was bult before the war since he recalled seeing the walls surrounding the yard completely built and standing during the time he was going to high school and wondering what it was. If that was the case, then it could be safely assumed that the subway infrastructure at least as far as Euclid if not to the often sought 76 St station or even farther, was substantially completed by the time the US entered the war. |
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| (408839) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Thu Mar 29 20:12:52 2007, in response to Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by NewLots#2 on Wed Mar 28 23:18:42 2007. 
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| (408846) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Bob Andersen on Thu Mar 29 20:26:55 2007, in response to Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by randyo on Thu Mar 29 18:46:53 2007. Can you scan and post a copy of that map? |
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| (408871) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Mar 29 21:23:06 2007, in response to Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by randyo on Thu Mar 29 18:46:53 2007. That's right, most of the construction was done before Pearl Harbor, at least thru Euclid Ave. I'm sure war-time materials shortages prevented the completion of the line until after the fighting ended (eventually opening in 1948). |
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| (408877) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by TunnelRat on Thu Mar 29 21:34:48 2007, in response to Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by randyo on Thu Mar 29 18:46:53 2007. randy,in a recent issue of headlights there was a photo taken in 1940 showing the tunnel several hundred east of jamaica ave. |
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| (408894) | |
Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Mar 29 22:24:16 2007, in response to Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by NewLots#2 on Thu Mar 29 17:13:50 2007. Damn, imagine the poor crews having to do THAT run at night, scraping the wall all the way to Europe. |
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| (408896) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu Mar 29 22:29:12 2007, in response to Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by SilverFox on Thu Mar 29 00:54:52 2007. Methinks The Fox and Tunnel Rat need to be locked inside a BMT Standard until both come to their collective senses. |
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| (408900) | |
Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by NewLots#2 on Thu Mar 29 22:34:35 2007, in response to Re: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by Jeff Rosen on Thu Mar 29 20:12:52 2007. I thought 76th st was going to be a local stop. |
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| (408908) | |
Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by ajpardi63 on Thu Mar 29 22:49:48 2007, in response to Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by Nilet on Thu Mar 29 17:56:28 2007. imagine the possibilities that the track extending south of Euclid ave could have been used to connect the A/C lines to JFK Airport? Airlink while it is okay still isn't a one seat ride to a New York airport by rail... |
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| (408927) | |
Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by SilverFox on Thu Mar 29 23:46:22 2007, in response to Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 29 13:53:02 2007. Yes I did, and it is very logical, too. The loamy sand and soil of Long Island lends itself to tunneling on the cheap and fast. And the concrete was to be mixed from the garnet and lodestone sands of Fire Island specially dredged for this project, giving the walls and platforms a nice reddish-brick tinge and controlling all manner of bacterial and mold growth due to the sand's high salt content. Plans were also afoot to extend the line under Long Island Sound to Southeastern Connecticut or Rhode Island, Nantucket, Cape Cod, and Portland, Maine, before continuing north to Eastern Canada, Nova Scotia, and the rest of the Maritime Provinces, making the line a truly "International Express." While this may seem very far-fetched, remember that in the 1930s, the subway was basically THE mode of transportation in the City and there was still a great deal of pro-subway sentiment. Had the Eastern section and the Queens section been connected and the line to Montauk operated as planned, Mayors and Governors from the cities and states along the proposed route extension would have had enough time to evaluate the positive effect the Montauk Subway Route would have generated for our region, making them amenable to kicking in the untold billions necessary in order to gain a piece of the pie. True, there were the Pennsylvania, Penn Central, New Haven, and other railroads operating at the time more suited to the task of long distance travel, however the subway was very local in scope and was designed for constant stops every 1500 or so feet so as to spur greater development along its right-of-way, which is what the politicians wanted to see. They weren't planning on having someone ride from Wakefield to Halifax on $2.00 as much as taking local residents a few miles out of their center point on a rolling basis, creating a slightly broader catchment area for merchants along the route. Should that route have begun its cross-sound trek today, I am sure Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun would have paid for a spur going straight into their casino floor, thereby amortizing the cost to the government jurisdictions through which the right-of-way would have originally passed. Everybody would have won. But today, it takes a bridge nearly 20 years to be painted. Oh well. Where did I get all of this? Are you actually questioning my facts? Please. |
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| (408931) | |
Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Mar 30 00:02:17 2007, in response to Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Mar 29 22:24:16 2007. Presumably, the trains would change crews at several points between New York and England, using a series of man-made islands. |
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| (408934) | |
Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by NewLots#2 on Fri Mar 30 00:05:27 2007, in response to Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by Nilet on Fri Mar 30 00:02:17 2007. So which T/Os and C/Rs on here would bid for those runs? |
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Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by J trainloco on Fri Mar 30 00:09:48 2007, in response to Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by SilverFox on Thu Mar 29 23:46:22 2007. You need to get a life. |
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Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Russ on Fri Mar 30 00:50:41 2007, in response to Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by SilverFox on Thu Mar 29 23:46:22 2007. Classic post. SilverFox wins a blue ribbon. |
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| (408971) | |
Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Fri Mar 30 04:19:44 2007, in response to Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Mar 29 22:24:16 2007. And imagine the hold-ups U.S. Immigration would cause... |
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| (408973) | |
Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Fytton on Fri Mar 30 04:25:58 2007, in response to Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by SilverFox on Thu Mar 29 23:46:22 2007. You are still two days early with this post. Repost it on Sunday morning. |
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| (409015) | |
Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Mar 30 09:49:01 2007, in response to Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by Fytton on Fri Mar 30 04:25:58 2007. That still wouldn't top the all-time classic April Fool joke: the 76th St. station thread on Joe Brennan's website. A bunch of us fell for that - hook, line and sinker. |
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| (409016) | |
Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Mar 30 09:50:32 2007, in response to Re::: Tracks beyond Euclid Ave, posted by NewLots#2 on Thu Mar 29 17:13:50 2007. The Chunnel would pale in comparison.:) |
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