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second avenue subway map

Posted by ntrainride on Tue Feb 13 11:00:20 2007

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I suppose this is waaay redundent around here. But I'd never seen a map of the line depicted like it is here, as if it already exists.



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(386346)

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by Kevin from Midwood on Tue Feb 13 11:10:22 2007, in response to second avenue subway map, posted by ntrainride on Tue Feb 13 11:00:20 2007.

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There is a link to higher-quality PDF version of that image on this page.

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(386366)

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by italianstallion on Tue Feb 13 11:42:19 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by Kevin from Midwood on Tue Feb 13 11:10:22 2007.

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It has been on mta.info for years.

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(386369)

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Feb 13 11:43:47 2007, in response to second avenue subway map, posted by ntrainride on Tue Feb 13 11:00:20 2007.

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Gee. It looks like that (T) train will be a very senior pick.

Where they going to park the trains at night?

ROAR

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(386386)

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by ntrainride on Tue Feb 13 12:04:38 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by italianstallion on Tue Feb 13 11:42:19 2007.

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"It has been on mta.info for years."

Ok. Thanks, I just never ran across it.

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(386396)

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by ntrainride on Tue Feb 13 12:23:10 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by Kevin from Midwood on Tue Feb 13 11:10:22 2007.

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"There is a link to higher-quality PDF version of that image on this page.

I hear you but I couldn't extract the image from the .pdf file.

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(386408)

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Feb 13 12:54:00 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Feb 13 11:43:47 2007.

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Good question. There will probably be tail tracks west of the 125/Lex station, but that's only good for 2 trains. Isn't there a pocket track somwhere on 2nd? Otherwise, probably a long light run to CIY (or maybe in service as a Q)

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(386412)

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by xtimx on Tue Feb 13 12:55:50 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Feb 13 11:43:47 2007.

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thats perfect. by the time it actually gets built i will have 60 years on the job and i'll be able to pick it!

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Feb 13 13:02:01 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Feb 13 11:43:47 2007.

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Where they going to park the trains at night?

Maybe it says in here: link

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Feb 13 13:07:31 2007, in response to second avenue subway map, posted by ntrainride on Tue Feb 13 11:00:20 2007.

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Does anyone know if they will have a provision to allow a connection from the the southern portion of the line to the 63rd Street tunnel that was in the 1970s plans?

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(386445)

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by LA Scott on Tue Feb 13 14:19:48 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Feb 13 12:54:00 2007.

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There will be a couple of pockets on the 2, but not nearly enough for a full service, plus you still need maintenance facilities, car washes, etc...

My guess is that they will run T trains from Coney either light or as Qs.

Another option would be to run them light from Queen Blvd.

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(386450)

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by italianstallion on Tue Feb 13 14:32:39 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by LA Scott on Tue Feb 13 14:19:48 2007.

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There will be a small yard at 129th St. and Second Ave.

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by LA Scott on Tue Feb 13 14:42:20 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by italianstallion on Tue Feb 13 14:32:39 2007.

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From the diagrams I have seen, the yard is just a pair of tracks that can each store one or possibly two trains each.

I seriously doubt it would have any of the cleaning, servicing, or inspection facilities needed to store a train for more than staging or mid-day storage purposes.

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(386456)

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by italianstallion on Tue Feb 13 15:03:42 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by LA Scott on Tue Feb 13 14:42:20 2007.

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Once the full SAS is completed, the maintenance, cleaning, reapir, etc. of trains would be done at Coney Isand yard. Off-peak storage could be done at tail tracks at the 2 Manhattan terminuses, the small 129th St. yard, and storage tracks to be built alongside the ROW in lower Midtown. See pp. 2-25 to 2-27 of the FEIS referenced in Terrapin's post.

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(386459)

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by Zman179 on Tue Feb 13 15:11:01 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Feb 13 11:43:47 2007.

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Actually, I strongly believe that the V would be a medium to junior line. With it's short length, the jobs will probably consist of 5 trippers (5 round trips.) Plus, I don't see any "money" for the crews with a short line like this.

Numerous trips + 8 hour jobs = low seniority

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(386460)

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Correction: Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by Zman179 on Tue Feb 13 15:12:04 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by Zman179 on Tue Feb 13 15:11:01 2007.

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I meant T and not V.

V is a senior line.

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Feb 13 15:28:57 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by italianstallion on Tue Feb 13 15:03:42 2007.

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How much room does a car wash need? That is, if you have sufficient ventilation capability and drainage (connection to sewer system) and a water connection, you could install a car wash in one of the small yards. Or you could install it in the tunnel leading to the yard, since the wash itself can be less than a car-length in size. When a train goes light, it rolls slowly through the car wash on its way to its parking spot. Then cleaners can take care of the insides in the yard.



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(386465)

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 13 15:37:10 2007, in response to second avenue subway map, posted by ntrainride on Tue Feb 13 11:00:20 2007.

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That map has as much connection to reality as Alpha Moonbase on Space:1999.

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(386477)

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Feb 13 16:26:21 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Feb 13 11:43:47 2007.

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Too bad this T won't be tied to the West End line.

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(386480)

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by mshull on Tue Feb 13 16:32:35 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Feb 13 11:43:47 2007.

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There will be tail tracks extending into the Bronx before the curve into 125 St Station as well as the tail tracks other people have mentioned.

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(386482)

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by ntrainride on Tue Feb 13 16:33:55 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 13 15:37:10 2007.

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Okay...I still like looking at it though.

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(386511)

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by italianstallion on Tue Feb 13 17:59:25 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 13 15:37:10 2007.

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I don't know why you say that.

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(386524)

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by jabrams on Tue Feb 13 18:41:40 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by ntrainride on Tue Feb 13 12:23:10 2007.

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I thought that one was the original plan with the cross platform transfer at Grand Street. Wasn't that option scrapped?

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(386554)

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by J trainloco on Tue Feb 13 19:35:12 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Feb 13 11:43:47 2007.

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Where they going to park the trains at night?

<Lion's personality=on> On the tracks of course!

ROAR!</Lion>

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(386559)

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by J trainloco on Tue Feb 13 19:43:33 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Feb 13 12:54:00 2007.

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Guys, this is an easy one.

For phase 1 and 2, It's very obvious where trains will be shopped: Coney Island Yard. After that, it is anyone's guess, but if you look here, at the section entitled 'project alternatives', you see all the plans being considered for yard space, as well as storage tracks.

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by J trainloco on Tue Feb 13 19:45:23 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by J trainloco on Tue Feb 13 19:43:33 2007.

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Don't look under the first chapter you see with that title: it's in the index.

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by error46146 on Tue Feb 13 19:47:03 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by J trainloco on Tue Feb 13 19:43:33 2007.

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Oh, no, not the dreaded...horrible...EXECUTIVE SUMMARY!!! OH NO!!!!

I vowed not to write or read another executive summary in my life after what my last year english teacher made me do so I cannot read that.

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by J trainloco on Tue Feb 13 19:49:48 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Feb 13 13:07:31 2007.

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Yes, the connection will exist.

No, there are no plans to operate service along it.

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by italianstallion on Tue Feb 13 20:01:12 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by J trainloco on Tue Feb 13 19:43:33 2007.

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See pp. 2-25 to 2-27 of the FEIS

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Feb 13 20:31:25 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 13 15:37:10 2007.

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Wasn't Barbara Bain the main attraction there?

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by J trainloco on Wed Feb 14 00:35:41 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by error46146 on Tue Feb 13 19:47:03 2007.

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I think you vowed not to read anything ever again.

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Feb 14 09:34:48 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by J trainloco on Tue Feb 13 19:35:12 2007.

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I oughta ......

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by Fulton Frank on Wed Feb 14 09:48:56 2007, in response to second avenue subway map, posted by ntrainride on Tue Feb 13 11:00:20 2007.

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Gee, Chatham Sq. Hanover Sq. Sounds like the good old days. But, Seaport???? That sounds much too Seatle or San Diego......

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by Max Roberts on Wed Feb 14 10:00:26 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by J trainloco on Tue Feb 13 19:49:48 2007.

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So what happens about all that spare capacity south of 72 Street (when Q trains have vacated the new line)? Short journeys on the T?

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by ntrainride on Wed Feb 14 10:16:13 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by Fulton Frank on Wed Feb 14 09:48:56 2007.

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Yeah, those names do resonate nicely. B good to have a Chatham Square station again. (Although railfan-wise the Second Avenue Elevated did it much better.) And it does (will...might?) seem to add some balance to the Manhattan island as far as distribution of linear transit lines goes. If you assume a roughly equivalent population density Manhattan definitely needs a rapid transit line east of Park/Lexington Avenues.

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by J trainloco on Wed Feb 14 11:18:15 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by Max Roberts on Wed Feb 14 10:00:26 2007.

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Look at the map: nothing but the T south of the 63rd interlocking. MTA studies have said that ridership will be far higher north of 60th (where there is a very dense residential neighborhood) than south of it (where the developed CBD is further to the west)

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by Max Roberts on Wed Feb 14 12:07:54 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by J trainloco on Wed Feb 14 11:18:15 2007.

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Well thats my point, no point spending a gazillion dollars on a subway that is not going to be maxxed out for its entire length. Maybe south of 72nd the SAS should be an FAS (Fifth Avenue Subway).

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by italianstallion on Wed Feb 14 12:15:44 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by Max Roberts on Wed Feb 14 12:07:54 2007.

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No, the areas east of Lex/4th/Lafayette need the service. Fifth Avenue doesn't.

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 14 13:25:58 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by Max Roberts on Wed Feb 14 12:07:54 2007.

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No matter where the lower half is, it still can't be maxed out as long as there are no additional northern terminals south of 72 St.

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by Mitch45 on Wed Feb 14 13:33:59 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Feb 13 20:31:25 2007.

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Good memory, Ron. She was married to Martin Landau at the time (as she was during Mission:Impossible). The second season, they introduced Catherine Schell as a shapeshifter named Maya.

When I was a kid, I thought that was a scary show; people always died or ended up in macabre situations. It was an interesting show, though, even though the premise was crazy. I mean, just because the moon was hurled out of orbit, did it suddenly increase speed exponentially? Because the moon suddenly encountered other solar systems within a few days, despite the nearest star being 24 trillion or so miles (4 light years) from Earth.

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by italianstallion on Wed Feb 14 13:34:47 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 14 13:25:58 2007.

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Right - for example, it could max out if service is run from Queens via 63rd St.

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 14 13:47:40 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Feb 14 13:33:59 2007.

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link

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(387051)

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Feb 14 14:14:20 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Feb 14 13:33:59 2007.

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LOL! They took a lot of liberties.

I still remember the theme tune. As I recall it was played while all these moonbase people marched in rows. All the women wore very tight jumpsuits and were all very well endowed.

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(387055)

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Feb 14 14:20:50 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by italianstallion on Wed Feb 14 12:15:44 2007.

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Exactly. That's a major destination...

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Re: Correction: Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by xtimx on Wed Feb 14 15:43:16 2007, in response to Correction: Re: second avenue subway map, posted by Zman179 on Tue Feb 13 15:12:04 2007.

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they don't call it the vacation line for nothing!

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Re: second avenue subway map

Posted by J trainloco on Wed Feb 14 22:52:33 2007, in response to Re: second avenue subway map, posted by Max Roberts on Wed Feb 14 12:07:54 2007.

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I don't think their aim is to build a subway that's 'maxed out'. I think their goal is to build a subway thats serving underserved neighborhoods.

Besides, there's no point in having a 5th av subway when there's one on 6th, 7th and 8th.

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