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| (371445) | |
Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by //ROOT on Wed Jan 17 16:26:35 2007 What's the western "end" of the Eastern Parkway Line, and to what line does the Joralemon Street tube belong? |
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| (371448) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 17 16:34:32 2007, in response to Eastern Parkway, posted by //ROOT on Wed Jan 17 16:26:35 2007. The Eastern Parkway line is usually used to describe the Brooklyn IRT past Atlantic Ave. The Joralemon St. tubes are used by the 4/5 between Brooklyn and Manhattan. |
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| (371449) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jan 17 16:34:49 2007, in response to Eastern Parkway, posted by //ROOT on Wed Jan 17 16:26:35 2007. Joralemon is Lexington Avenue line.Eastern Pky > Flatbush > Fulton Street. LION would guess that Nevins Street would be the division point. ROAR |
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| (371453) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Tunnel Rat on Wed Jan 17 16:36:26 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jan 17 16:34:49 2007. The lower level is THE interesting point. |
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| (371457) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by //ROOT on Wed Jan 17 16:41:57 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jan 17 16:34:49 2007. Do you happen to know where I could find a reliable source for that defintion? |
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| (371483) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by kawasakir142 on Wed Jan 17 17:53:08 2007, in response to Eastern Parkway, posted by //ROOT on Wed Jan 17 16:26:35 2007. well to the east there's the hood (where im from) and to the west are the nice treelined streets |
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| (371489) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jan 17 18:12:37 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jan 17 16:34:49 2007. Nope. I said I was guessing. |
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| (371501) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by //ROOT on Wed Jan 17 18:27:03 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jan 17 18:12:37 2007. Ah, I'd thought you were certain about Joralemon Street though. |
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| (371508) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Wed Jan 17 18:35:37 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by //ROOT on Wed Jan 17 18:27:03 2007. But for the most part he is correct. |
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| (371522) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by //ROOT on Wed Jan 17 18:49:48 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by Grand Concourse on Wed Jan 17 18:35:37 2007. I thought so, but I sort of need a solid reference to verify it. If anyone knows of one, it would be greatly appreciated. |
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| (371527) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Wed Jan 17 19:10:30 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by //ROOT on Wed Jan 17 18:49:48 2007. What's the need to reference? Look at the map and see what trains goes thru the tunnel. It is not that hard. |
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| (371548) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by JohnL on Wed Jan 17 20:01:11 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by //ROOT on Wed Jan 17 18:27:03 2007. Have a look at the track map for the tunnel names. |
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| (371549) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by //ROOT on Wed Jan 17 20:05:43 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by Grand Concourse on Wed Jan 17 19:10:30 2007. It's for Wikipedia (I hope this doesn't turn too many people off). Someone I'm collaborating with is demanding reliable sources for my claims. I can't really dismiss this because sources are important in Wikipedia policy.The question isn't which trains use the tube, but what physical line the tracks belong to. Does the Lex continue into Brooklyn to Borough Hall, or is it Eastern Parkway that begins at Bowling Green? I'd always been of the belief that Eastern Parkway began when Broadway–7 Av merged with Lex east of the two Borough Hall stations (as suggested by chaining designations), but Part 2, Section VII of the MTA's 2007 Final Proposed Budget says stuff like "LINE STRUCTURE REHABILITATION - Joralemon Tube to Nevins St: E Pkwy Line." Does this suggest that Eastern Parkway includes the tube, or that it begins where the tube ends (whatever that means)? I'm not trying to be a bother; I just figured that if anyone knows, the people here would. Link to document: http://www.mta.info/mta/budget/pdf/final07/part2.pdf (PDF, 844 KB) |
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| (371551) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Wed Jan 17 20:12:22 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by //ROOT on Wed Jan 17 20:05:43 2007. Ok, I was wondering why the 20 questions all of a sudden. |
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| (371558) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Wed Jan 17 20:40:27 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by //ROOT on Wed Jan 17 20:05:43 2007. It's for Wikipedia (I hope this doesn't turn too many people off). Someone I'm collaborating with is demanding reliable sources for my claims. I can't really dismiss this because sources are important in Wikipedia policy.LMAO!!! That site's even more über-retarded than I thought then... The question isn't which trains use the tube, but what physical line the tracks belong to. I have every suspicion that the line names are informal. Does the Lex continue into Brooklyn to Borough Hall, or is it Eastern Parkway that begins at Bowling Green? I'd always been of the belief that Eastern Parkway began when Broadway–7 Av merged with Lex east of the two Borough Hall stations (as suggested by chaining designations), but Part 2, Section VII of the MTA's 2007 Final Proposed Budget says stuff like "LINE STRUCTURE REHABILITATION - Joralemon Tube to Nevins St: E Pkwy Line." Does this suggest that Eastern Parkway includes the tube, or that it begins where the tube ends (whatever that means)? It suggests it's not important. It's the IRT. It's in Brooklyn. Someone felt uneasy about calling the Lex the Lex, as it doesn't run under the Brooklyn version of Lexington Av, and they made up a descriptor that causes precisely no confusion. If you really want a source, the Eastern Parkway Line runs from the end of the Interborough Subway at Atlantic Av station to the junction of the Nostrand Av and Livonia Av Lines (Rogers Junction): link. |
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| (371572) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 17 21:26:05 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by JohnL on Wed Jan 17 20:01:11 2007. I thought Fulton St tunnels were called "Cranberry" |
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| (371573) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Wed Jan 17 21:32:00 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by //ROOT on Wed Jan 17 20:05:43 2007. |
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| (371583) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jan 17 22:00:31 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by //ROOT on Wed Jan 17 20:05:43 2007. Here it becomes a simple matter, and if you are in NYC you can check it out for yourself. Just observe the signal numbers (letters actually) to see how the line is chained.ROAR |
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| (371585) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jan 17 22:04:31 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jan 17 22:00:31 2007. Your Answers are here. |
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| (371610) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jan 17 22:26:03 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 17 21:26:05 2007. The IND Fulton Street Lion stalks the Cranberry Tunnel.The IRT operates on a different section of Fulton Street (and was there FIRST!) Half of the service (express stops in Brooklyn) go through the Jorlemon Street Tunnel to Lexington Avenue, the other half of the service goes through the Clark Street Tunnel, thence to 7th Avenue. Specifically, and now officially the IRT "E" Tracks run from BORO HALL to New Lots Avenue along Fulton Street, Flatbush Avenue and then Eastern Parkway. The Jorlemon Tunnel runs from Brooklyn Bridge to Boro Hall, and is chained with the letter "M". Zero is at Boro Hall. The MAIN LINE (Chained "MM") Runs from Brooklyn Bridge to Times Square. The Lexington Avenue Line (Chain "L") runs from Grand Central northward. Point zero is at Park Avenue and 38th Street. |
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| (371632) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by JohnL on Wed Jan 17 22:45:46 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Jan 17 21:26:05 2007. You are right: the IND tunnels have been named after the Manhattan street side, rather than the Brooklyn side.I checked Peter’s Brooklyn map, and it has the same nomenclature; Fulton St tunnel going into Cranberry St. Interesting. |
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| (371635) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Wed Jan 17 22:49:22 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by //ROOT on Wed Jan 17 20:05:43 2007. My guess (and it's a guess) is that the EASTERN PARKWAY LINE begins south of Atlantic Avenue, where the 1907 construction leaves off and the 1918 construction begins. This does not include the Nostrand Avenue portion.wayne |
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| (371638) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jan 17 22:54:01 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jan 17 22:26:03 2007. LION sorry. IRT is Chained from Brooklyn Bridge both north bound on the mane lion and south bound into Brooklyn, but Eastern Parkway (Line E) begins at BoroHall. |
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| (371653) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by PATHman on Thu Jan 18 00:07:25 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by JohnL on Wed Jan 17 20:01:11 2007. Not to get O/T but at Bowling Green, what's the story behind the abandoned shuttle platform? |
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| (371654) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jan 18 00:11:50 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by PATHman on Thu Jan 18 00:07:25 2007. what's the story behind the abandoned shuttle platform? |
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| (371728) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Jan 18 07:30:15 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jan 17 22:26:03 2007. The MAIN LINE (Chained "MM") Runs from Brooklyn Bridge to Times Square.In case if you don't know, "MM" stands for Manhattan Mainline. Bill "Newkirk" |
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| (371740) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Thu Jan 18 08:31:16 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Jan 18 07:30:15 2007. "The MAIN LINE (Chained "MM") Runs from Brooklyn Bridge to Times Square."In case if you don't know, "MM" stands for Manhattan Mainline. Or is that a backronym? What does BB stand for? And for that matter, what did Z and ZA stand for (other than "we've run out of letters")? |
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| (371741) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Thu Jan 18 08:34:02 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Wed Jan 17 22:49:22 2007. That's not just a guess - it agrees with what the Public Service Commission called the lines at the time of the Dual Contracts. The original IRT appears to be the "City Subway". |
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| (371742) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Tunnel Rat on Thu Jan 18 08:34:48 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by Rail Blue on Thu Jan 18 08:31:16 2007. What is chaining? |
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| (371810) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Jan 18 11:07:46 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by Rail Blue on Thu Jan 18 08:31:16 2007. The Tunnel Rat does not *know* what chaining is!!!!????ROFLMAO Chaining is how tunnels are measured. In the case of the IRT lions in question the ZERO point is Brooklyn Bridge. MM are the tracks northbound to Times Square. M is the tracks southbound to Boro Hall. E is the tracks southbound from Boro Hall to New Lots, but the numbers continue from the Zero Point at Brooklyn Bridge. The Chains (surveyor's chains) measure the distance in feet. So on a signal you may see a placard reading E2 / 185 That would be the E2 track 18,500 feet from Brooklyn Bridge. ROAR |
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| (371811) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Jan 18 11:11:28 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Jan 18 11:07:46 2007. The IND does it a little differently. (Of Course!)The "Zero" point is out in the middle of New York Harbor, about on the NY-NJ staid lion. Measuring from there, the distance to West 4th Street is calculated, thence the numbers increase uptown and decrease downtown. |
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| (371812) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Tunnel Rat on Thu Jan 18 11:21:02 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Jan 18 11:07:46 2007. The tunnelrat now knows what chaining is.[I had an idea that was it] |
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| (371859) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by //ROOT on Thu Jan 18 14:51:45 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by Rail Blue on Wed Jan 17 20:40:27 2007. I've suspected for a while that the names are informal; the whole thing with the IND South Brooklyn/Smith Street/Jay–Smith Streets/Culver Line clued me into that. |
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| (371861) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by //ROOT on Thu Jan 18 14:55:58 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by Kriston Lewis on Wed Jan 17 21:32:00 2007. Hey PCH, what's going on? :) |
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| (371868) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Thu Jan 18 15:23:28 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Jan 18 11:11:28 2007. Does that mean the IND could theoretically have negative chaining numbers? |
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| (371948) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by //ROOT on Thu Jan 18 17:46:40 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by Rail Blue on Thu Jan 18 15:23:28 2007. Theoretically, yes. But the south end of the West 4th Street upper level platforms ends up with a chaining number of 969+25 (96,925 feet from IND zero). I don't think any IND-chained line runs far enough south to run this number down to zero. |
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| (371949) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by //ROOT on Thu Jan 18 17:47:59 2007, in response to Eastern Parkway, posted by //ROOT on Wed Jan 17 16:26:35 2007. Another little question. Is the line from Utica Avenue out to New Lots Avenue generally considered Eastern Parkway Line or New Lots Line? |
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| (371956) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Thu Jan 18 17:59:29 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by //ROOT on Thu Jan 18 17:46:40 2007. I don't think any IND-chained line runs far enough south to run this number down to zero.What would Rockaway Park be if it were IND-chained? |
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| (371957) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Thu Jan 18 18:00:34 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by //ROOT on Thu Jan 18 17:47:59 2007. The PSC termed the entire section from Rogers Junction to New Lots the "Livonia Avenue Line". |
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| (372034) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by MJF on Thu Jan 18 21:18:08 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by Rail Blue on Thu Jan 18 08:31:16 2007. BB=Broadway Boulevard. (I always thought it meant Broadway Bronx). |
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| (372135) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by SubBus aka ENY Local on Fri Jan 19 01:02:31 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by //ROOT on Thu Jan 18 17:47:59 2007. New Lots line. |
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| (372213) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Jan 19 08:16:25 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by //ROOT on Thu Jan 18 17:47:59 2007. It is chained as Eastern Parkway.So the lines apparently have many ways of being designated: By Contract, By Chaining, By Tower, By Local Convention. So now you must decide whose designations you want to use. What does the tower call each segment of the line. The LION likes to go by the Chaining, I'm sure the signal department does too. What does the operating department do. Some of the T/Os can tell us that! ROAR |
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| (372335) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 19 12:15:30 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by //ROOT on Thu Jan 18 17:47:59 2007. It's usually referred to as the "Livonia Ave. el". |
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| (372454) | |
Re: Eastern Parkway |
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Posted by Alex L. on Fri Jan 19 17:04:40 2007, in response to Re: Eastern Parkway, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Jan 19 08:16:25 2007. RTO locates themselves by Track Number and Signal Survey Plate Number for automatics and approaches and by Interlocking Number for home signals. |
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