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New subway riding record attempt

Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Dec 22 16:21:45 2006

SIX NEW YORKERS TO BRING SUBWAY-RIDING RECORD HOME

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by italianstallion on Fri Dec 22 17:57:56 2006, in response to New subway riding record attempt, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Dec 22 16:21:45 2006.

Interesting. They're going to use local trains only, stopping at every stop, and counting each component station of a multi-station complex as a separate station. Also, they will not exit the system.

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Dec 22 18:42:41 2006, in response to New subway riding record attempt, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Dec 22 16:21:45 2006.

They'll have to do this again after the 7 extension and SAS Phase 1 open.

Has anyone timed the total trip for all rapid transit subway in the area? That is, riding NYC+PATH, visiting all stations? I such a contest, even though PATH is a separate system, I would be willing to stipulate that the 6th Av section served by the IND and PATH need be ridden only once, on either system (except that Christopher St and 9th St are not part of that and must be visited).

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Re: New subway riding record attempt


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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by PATHman on Sat Dec 23 00:09:06 2006, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Dec 22 18:42:41 2006.

Something so ambiguous could lead to problems. For example, some people may consider the Roosevelt Island tram mass transit. Other's won't. It's best to stick to a uniform record.

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 23 17:27:36 2006, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Dec 22 18:42:41 2006.

They'll have to do this again after the 7 extension and SAS Phase 1 open.

No they won't. The record stands until someone else beats their time, no matter how much the system changes.

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 23 17:32:39 2006, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by italianstallion on Fri Dec 22 17:57:56 2006.

and counting each component station of a multi-station complex as a separate station.

Nope. As I understand it, both Class B rules and Guinness rules only require you to stop at each station once. For example, you only have to stop in Times Square once. If you do it on the (1), you wouldn't need to do it again on any other line.

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Sat Dec 23 17:49:23 2006, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 23 17:32:39 2006.

But some complexes, by virture of the way the system was built, require you to use it more than once. In your Times Square example, you need to use the Broadwat BMT stop as you ride through on a N/R/W train and the 8th Ave side would have to be used. But the 7 terminal can be ignored, turn around at 5th Avenue and the shuttle will never be needed during the entire time.

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 24 02:06:39 2006, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Sat Dec 23 17:49:23 2006.

Yes. That's why they said they would be getting an official list of the stations from NYCT.

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by heypaul on Wed Dec 27 18:45:55 2006, in response to New subway riding record attempt, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Dec 22 16:21:45 2006.


These guys are not getting a lot of press coverage.

There was an article today.

Subway Challenge Ride

They are scheduled to start at Rockaway Park at 3:30 PM tomorrow and they hope to end their trip at 241st Street in the Bronx about the same time tomorrow.

The six guys making this trip seem much more serious about doing this than the two guys back in August.

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by South Ferry on Wed Dec 27 18:52:26 2006, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by heypaul on Wed Dec 27 18:45:55 2006.

the two guys back in August only did it to garner some free media attention before
they went back to school....

not only did the media bite... but it proved its own ridicule by OVERLOOKING the fact that
they were NOT stopping at every station.

Thus, reliable is the media.... harhar.

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by South Ferry on Wed Dec 27 18:54:19 2006, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by heypaul on Wed Dec 27 18:45:55 2006.


Close-knit, No-schit.

Who's there to serve as public witness that they actually do all 468.

the Media?? Kid me not...

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by South Ferry on Wed Dec 27 18:55:09 2006, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 24 02:06:39 2006.

emphasis on "they said"... coming from (likely) SCA.

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by transitbuff on Wed Dec 27 18:55:48 2006, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 24 02:06:39 2006.

I didn't know that NYCT would give out that info.

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by heypaul on Wed Dec 27 18:58:48 2006, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by heypaul on Wed Dec 27 18:45:55 2006.


They have set up an interesting website with information about their ride.

http://www.rapidtransitchallenge.com/rules.htm
In their press section, they have a link for the AM New York article about them.

AM NY article

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Wed Dec 27 19:07:14 2006, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Dec 22 18:42:41 2006.

The Staten Island Railway doesn;t count as rapid transit in the area?

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Who Is Kevin Foster, the Current Record Holder??...Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by heypaul on Wed Dec 27 19:12:12 2006, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by heypaul on Wed Dec 27 18:45:55 2006.


I was intrigued to read that Kevin Foster set the current record in 1989 and also rode the system for 85 hours at the same time to celebrate the 85th anniversay of the subway.

I ran Kevin Foster through Google and came up with this website. This first page describes his formative years, which were quite unusual. He was electrocuted at the age of 8 when he climbed up a tree and touched a 65,000 volt power line.

http://www.kevin-foster.com/begin.htm

Kevin Foster went on to be the first person to ride the Great Wall of China by bycycle.

Has anyone ever heard of him?



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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Dec 27 20:01:05 2006, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 24 02:06:39 2006.

The official list I believe would count eaach Times Square Station separately.

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 20:02:37 2006, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by South Ferry on Wed Dec 27 18:54:19 2006.

read the rules provided by Guinness

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Re: Who Is Kevin Foster, the Current Record Holder??...Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 20:05:10 2006, in response to Who Is Kevin Foster, the Current Record Holder??...Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by heypaul on Wed Dec 27 19:12:12 2006.

Yes, I've heard of him. I owned a copy of the 1994 (or similar) Edition of the Guinness Book of World Records that has his name in it.

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 20:31:48 2006, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 23 17:32:39 2006.

italianstallion, and others, I apologize. What I said in the post above was incorrect.

Under Class B rules you must stop at every platform group of every station, like you said. These 6 guys are holding themselves to the Class B rules.

Under the Guinness rules, it is not at all clear to me if you have to stop at every platform group or just at every station complex. Their rule #2 seems to make it the latter, since, for example, there is one station called "42 St - Times Sq" and multiple lines serve it. It seems that they are saying that you would only need to stop at it on one line [say the (N)] and not the (1) and (2) and (R), etc. But because they say Foster's run was a Class B, it very well might be that Guinness is talking about platform groups and the wording of their rules could really be cleaned up.

Regardless of the Guinness rules, Class B says you have to stop at every platform group, so I don't know why they need to ask for a "complete station list" from the MTA.

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 20:34:16 2006, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Dec 27 20:01:05 2006.

On the list of 468 stations, yes. But on the list of 423 fare controls (station complexes), no.

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by JPC on Wed Dec 27 20:38:29 2006, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Dec 22 18:42:41 2006.

They'll have to do this again after the 7 extension and SAS Phase 1 open.

By that time I'll be reduced to a skeleton. So somebody please dig up my remains and carry them on the subway so I can win that record.

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by JPC on Wed Dec 27 20:44:28 2006, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 20:31:48 2006.

Ok, nitpicky questions...

Does this mean that 125th IND counts as one station (two platforms, four tracks, on one level), while 145 IND counts as two (upper level for AC, lower level for BD)?

I assume that bilevel stations (E/J in Queens, W 8th) all count as two separate stations then.

But what of stations with two levels, one platform each (CPW local stations, Queensboro Plaza)? Would you need to ride both ways for it to count?

What about stations with offset platforms (42nd IND, Bleecker, 145 IRT, etc)? Do those count as two separate stations requiring passes in both directions?

If you're counting by fare control access points, then stations without a crossover would count as two (i.e. 110th on the 1) while stations with a crossover would count as one (i.e. 116th on the 1).

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 20:59:53 2006, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by JPC on Wed Dec 27 20:44:28 2006.

Does this mean that 125th IND counts as one station (two platforms, four tracks, on one level), while 145 IND counts as two (upper level for AC, lower level for BD)?

Short answer: for Class B purposes, it does't matter. In order to hit the stations all around 145 St, you need to ride or board a train at oth levels.

Long answer: I don't think it counts as two of the quoted 468 stations.

But what of stations with two levels, one platform each (CPW local stations, Queensboro Plaza)? Would you need to ride both ways for it to count?

What about stations with offset platforms (42nd IND, Bleecker, 145 IRT, etc)? Do those count as two separate stations requiring passes in both directions?

If you're counting by fare control access points, then stations without a crossover would count as two (i.e. 110th on the 1) while stations with a crossover would count as one (i.e. 116th on the 1).


I'll have to look at all of the above a little later.

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 21:00:20 2006, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by JPC on Wed Dec 27 20:44:28 2006.

Does this mean that 125th IND counts as one station (two platforms, four tracks, on one level), while 145 IND counts as two (upper level for AC, lower level for BD)?

Short answer: for Class B purposes, it doesn't matter. In order to hit the stations all around 145 St, you need to ride or board a train at both levels.

Long answer: I don't think it counts as two of the quoted 468 stations.

But what of stations with two levels, one platform each (CPW local stations, Queensboro Plaza)? Would you need to ride both ways for it to count?

What about stations with offset platforms (42nd IND, Bleecker, 145 IRT, etc)? Do those count as two separate stations requiring passes in both directions?

If you're counting by fare control access points, then stations without a crossover would count as two (i.e. 110th on the 1) while stations with a crossover would count as one (i.e. 116th on the 1).


I'll have to look at all of the above a little later.

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Anyone Hear of "New Lots" a Documentary About a 2002 Attempt??..Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by heypaul on Thu Dec 28 04:53:52 2006, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by heypaul on Wed Dec 27 18:58:48 2006.


A short documentary "New Lots" was made about a 2002 attempt to ride the entire system by 2 people.

New Lots



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Re: Anyone Hear of ''New Lots'' a Documentary About a 2002 Attempt??..Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 28 08:04:21 2006, in response to Anyone Hear of "New Lots" a Documentary About a 2002 Attempt??..Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by heypaul on Thu Dec 28 04:53:52 2006.

Yes, i've heard of it. If it is what I am thinking of, then I've even watched bits of it (online). I'll check out your link a bit later, but IIRC, it was a guy and a girl and there is a lot of video of them just riding ( not surprisingly).

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They're Sending in Updates on Ride...Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by heypaul on Fri Dec 29 06:58:48 2006, in response to New subway riding record attempt, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Dec 22 16:21:45 2006.


There is a Daily News article on the ride that indicated that the guys are sending updates on their ride to their website.

Updates

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Trip Completed in 24 hr 54 min 3 sec !!!..Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by heypaul on Fri Dec 29 17:36:47 2006, in response to They're Sending in Updates on Ride...Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by heypaul on Fri Dec 29 06:58:48 2006.


WINS just reported that the 6 guys broke the record in 24 hours 54 minutes 3 seconds...

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Re: Trip Completed in 24 hr 54 min 3 sec !!!..Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Dec 29 18:28:45 2006, in response to Trip Completed in 24 hr 54 min 3 sec !!!..Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by heypaul on Fri Dec 29 17:36:47 2006.

Wow! Thanks!

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by subwaybill on Tue Jan 2 19:12:32 2007, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 21:00:20 2006.

Hi everyone,

Sorry for jumping into this discussion late, but I know there were a lot of questions about the list of stations used for our record setting ride last week. We've just posted a new page at http://www.rapidtransitchallenge.com/challenge.htm that has the rules we followed, including the list of 468-stations. In general, stations with multiple levels count as one if the platforms are parallel (e.g., West 4th Street) and as separate stations if they are perpendicular (e.g., 149th St-Grand Concourse).

Bill A

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Jan 2 19:15:12 2007, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by subwaybill on Tue Jan 2 19:12:32 2007.

Congrats on your achievement.

In 2013, you're going to have to do it again...

Has anyone timed a trip using all heavy rail in NY (ie visiting all NYCTA and PATH stations)?



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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by heypaul on Tue Jan 2 21:26:40 2007, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by subwaybill on Tue Jan 2 19:12:32 2007.


Hi Bill... How did you plan the trip? Did you use a computer? I remember reading a write-up of the trip that the MIT guys made in the late 60's and they spoke about having some of it on computer.

In reading the rules you linked to, I was wondering what would have happened if there was a major service interruption involving several stations that you needed to do. Can you plan for something like that? If you have to play it by ear, how would you make a decision if people disagreed on what to do?

Did the rules require that all 6 members of the group finish the trip?

Here's something I'm really interested in. Twenty years from now, will there be moments on the trip that will still be with you? Sometimes, it might be something peripheral to the main action that somehow just grabs you. Maybe a mood that comes over you or just the sight of someone passing through your field.

I wonder if Guinness would be willing to set up a competition for passing through all the restrooms on the system. I guess you could have several classes. The easiest would involve just passing by the outside door. More involved would be going inside and doing a quick check of the facilities. Then there's the whole question of how to cover both the men's and women's rooms. I guess you could have separate men's and women's records. Or require that a man and woman work as a pair. Would current TA rules allow a transgendered participant to use both men's and women's rooms?

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by subwaybill on Tue Jan 2 22:24:32 2007, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by heypaul on Tue Jan 2 21:26:40 2007.

I've promised not to reveal too much about how we planned the route. We did use computer technology for the planning, but there was a good amount of subway knowledge from years of riding the system that simply couldn't be put into a computer model. One thing the technology really helped with was keeping the route flexible enough that we could adjust for last minute G.O.s and should have been able to work around service disruptions (fortunately we didn't run into any!).

Before we even started the ride, we set a rule that we would always try to stay together. But if someone did get left behind (or needed to split from the group), the rest would go ahead and the other person would follow the route and try to catch up at a future transfer point. Of course, only the participants that made it to the end would break the record.

I'm sure there will be many things I'll remember for a long time. There just hasn't been enough time yet to know what they are!

Bill

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by heypaul on Wed Jan 3 07:34:14 2007, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by subwaybill on Tue Jan 2 22:24:32 2007.


Bill... I figured out that you were relying on Hopstop to plan the route.

Does the Guinness rules have anything to say about communication devices that are allowed? Like could you communicate by cellphone with colleagues with supercomputers who could give you assistance?

I remember reading that you were grateful that several transit workers were friendly and helpful. Did you notify the MTA in advance of your planned ride? Any problems with the transit police?

I'm also surprised that few people here have shown much interest in your ride. A group of posters here took part in a ride that was filmed by Discovery Times a couple of years ago. In my opinion, their ride was impeded by having to wait for camera people to keep up with the group.

Also, your ride required you to stop at every station, yet your total time was not that different from the 2 guys in August. Were they operating inefficiently?

Also, had there been a major disruption in service that would have prevented you from stopping at all stations, would you have aborted the trip at that point?

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by subwaybill on Wed Jan 3 22:04:18 2007, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by heypaul on Wed Jan 3 07:34:14 2007.

I don't want to overstate the use of computers. We didn't use HopStop or a formal shortest-path algorithm, but we did use models to calculate estimated times and to test various scenarios. Most of the route itself (and the various options) came from a combination of using the subway map and knowledge from years of using the system.

I do remember seeing the ride you mentioned on the Discovery Channel, but haven't been able to find much information about it. We're maintaining a History page for these types of rides and would like to include that one if there's more information about it somewhere.

We tried to plan for every possible scenario, so we did consider the possibility that we would have to call off the ride if there was a major disruption. Fortunately, a disruption bad enough to stop us would be extremely rare!

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Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by jabrams on Thu Jan 4 00:18:13 2007, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by subwaybill on Wed Jan 3 22:04:18 2007.

I noticed that about 1/4 of the time was spent waiting on platforms. What would happen if a trip was planned on a special day when rush hour was continued all day (prio to a holiday, or someother rare occassion). What was prevented you from cell-phoning friends to hold the doors at some transfer points if you were arriving a few seconds late (cross platform or short ramps (6th Av- L to F, Jay, A to F, etc.

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Ultimate Ride...Re: New subway riding record attempt

Posted by heypaul on Thu Jan 4 05:58:17 2007, in response to Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by subwaybill on Wed Jan 3 22:04:18 2007.


Bill... The "Ultimate Ride" was done back in July 2003. Here is a report from one of the riders:

http://talk.nycsubway.org/perl/read?subtalk=535925

The program is repeated on Discovery Times fairly often. It's worth watching as it might give you some pointers on how to navigate the system.

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Trip Documentation Took 60 Hours... Re: Trip Completed in 24 hr 54 min 3 sec !!!..Re: New subway

Posted by heypaul on Sun Jan 28 20:08:18 2007, in response to Trip Completed in 24 hr 54 min 3 sec !!!..Re: New subway riding record attempt, posted by heypaul on Fri Dec 29 17:36:47 2006.


amNY has an article about the guys who broke the record for riding the entire subway system. The documentation, that Guinness required, took over 60 hours to complete.

Subway Record Records

The article doesn't state how long it took the previous recordholder to document his trip, so I don't know if their 60 hour documentation time also set a record.

It is also unclear whether Guinness required each rider to submit urine, blood and stool samples.

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Re: Trip Documentation Took 60 Hours... Re: Trip Completed in 24 hr 54 min 3 sec !!!..Re: New subway

Posted by South Ferry on Sun Jan 28 22:33:20 2007, in response to Trip Documentation Took 60 Hours... Re: Trip Completed in 24 hr 54 min 3 sec !!!..Re: New subway, posted by heypaul on Sun Jan 28 20:08:18 2007.


I love how they ridicule the August couple... now makes the NY media look foolish and
transparent for how they all bought into the "24 hour" hoopla the first time 'round.

I applaud these six for going thru the tedious process.

I await Guiness' declaration 4 acknowledgement of teh feat.

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Re: Trip Documentation Took 60 Hours... Re: Trip Completed in 24 hr 54 min 3 sec !!!..Re: New subway

Posted by South Ferry on Sun Jan 28 22:34:09 2007, in response to Re: Trip Documentation Took 60 Hours... Re: Trip Completed in 24 hr 54 min 3 sec !!!..Re: New subway, posted by South Ferry on Sun Jan 28 22:33:20 2007.


should be:

I applaud these six for going thru the tedious VERIFICATION process.

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Re: Trip Documentation Took 60 Hours... Re: Trip Completed in 24 hr 54 min 3 sec !!!..Re: New subway

Posted by J trainloco on Sun Jan 28 22:39:10 2007, in response to Trip Documentation Took 60 Hours... Re: Trip Completed in 24 hr 54 min 3 sec !!!..Re: New subway, posted by heypaul on Sun Jan 28 20:08:18 2007.

It is also unclear whether Guinness required each rider to submit urine, blood and stool samples.

They were required to do so, but under anonymity. Alledgedly, 2 samples came back for performance enhancing drugs. Guinness is debating whether or not to throw out the record, and Congress is going to convene a hearing on drugs in competitive subway riding.


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Re: Trip Documentation Took 60 Hours... Re: Trip Completed in 24 hr 54 min 3 sec !!!..Re: New subway

Posted by South Ferry on Sun Jan 28 23:28:33 2007, in response to Re: Trip Documentation Took 60 Hours... Re: Trip Completed in 24 hr 54 min 3 sec !!!..Re: New subway, posted by J trainloco on Sun Jan 28 22:39:10 2007.

I'll bet those two were from Yankees fans...

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Re: Trip Documentation Took 60 Hours... Re: Trip Completed in 24 hr 54 min 3 sec !!!..Re: New subway

Posted by checkthedoorlight on Wed Jan 31 06:52:50 2007, in response to Re: Trip Documentation Took 60 Hours... Re: Trip Completed in 24 hr 54 min 3 sec !!!..Re: New subway, posted by South Ferry on Sun Jan 28 22:34:09 2007.

It's all gonna be for nothing. I also did a trip in 2005, finishing in 24 hours and 59 minutes (which beat Foster's 1989 record but not this one) and went through the same documentation and witness logs, and sent off a whole package to Guinness in Ireland.

They never responded. I continued to contact them, even after 6 months had gone by, but couldn't get any response out of them, even to verify if they accepted or rejected the record being broken.

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Re: Trip Documentation Took 60 Hours... Re: Trip Completed in 24 hr 54 min 3 sec !!!..Re: New subway

Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jan 31 06:54:42 2007, in response to Re: Trip Documentation Took 60 Hours... Re: Trip Completed in 24 hr 54 min 3 sec !!!..Re: New subway, posted by checkthedoorlight on Wed Jan 31 06:52:50 2007.

Get one of those news stations to help you out.

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