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| Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail (268071) | |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 10:09:05 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 19 10:07:33 2006. Where? St. George? |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jun 19 10:10:35 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 10:02:25 2006.   Have you ever at at least seen the North Shore? And not from pictures..I mean actually live or walked around or even taken the bus? Yes. LION *has* been there and driven around. And LION declares: It *is* High Density. You want Low Density, *THIS* is Low Density:  And Yes, that *is* a train track crossing the road up there. It is the old NP Mane Lion from CHI to SEA. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 19 10:13:35 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 10:08:47 2006. The facts, buddy. RIPTA posted facts. This is over. You lost. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 19 10:14:01 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 10:09:05 2006. All over. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 10:14:43 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 19 10:13:35 2006. You lose, you haven't been here yet. The size of the projects mean nothing. West Brighton projects are the smallest out of all, that means nothing to the surrounding area. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 19 10:15:04 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jun 19 10:10:35 2006. The LION hasn't read RIPTA's post containing the facts then. Or you have but you still choose to be ignorant. That's your choice. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 19 10:17:21 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 10:14:43 2006. I've told you three times that I have. And no, you lost. Why are you arguing with the facts RIPTA posted. This isn't an opinion here. It is a fact that it is not "high density." People that know much more than you define zoning standards and they have classified the area as "lower density." So you lose. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 19 10:17:53 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 10:09:05 2006. Where? St. George?St. George is denser than the rest of the North Shore. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 19 10:18:20 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 19 10:17:53 2006. Oh I'm loving this. Keep it coming my good man! |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 10:23:13 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 19 10:14:01 2006. Not over, check it out first before acting like you know something. You're using his post as your escape from answering the question, you haven't been to Staten Island. Those who have been to the North Shore or even live there know that it is not low-density, there's houses everywhere and picture every Staten Island street like a suburban street of New Jersey.Windows Live Local - West Brighton, Staten Island |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 10:24:01 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 19 10:17:53 2006. Actually New Brighton is. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 10:26:23 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 19 10:18:20 2006. Terrapin you lost from the beginning and is now relying on RIPTA's posts because in reality, you had no answers and haven't been on the North Shore. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Mon Jun 19 10:28:19 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 10:23:13 2006. Hmm, looks like the south Bronx. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 19 10:28:43 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 10:23:13 2006. For the 6th time, yes I've been to this part of SI, and yes, it is all over, because it is zoned for "lower-density" housing. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jun 19 10:30:53 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 19 10:15:04 2006. The LION hasn't read RIPTA's post containing the facts then. Correct. LION jumped into the middle of the thread. So they got a definition of Low Density and High Density, makes sense. But it still is all sorts of relative. And they *would* benefit from an LRV or even and HRV, since development would surely follow. And with development, usually comes improvement. And the Richardton Housing Authority is still going to build that four unit housing project just to the south of us. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 19 10:31:08 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 10:26:23 2006. For the seventh time, yes I have been to the North Shore. RIPTA initially posted that it was low density, and I supported him, because I knew he was right (based on personal observation and dealing with this type of stuff professionally). He then posted the facts. You are ignoring the facts. You are ignorant. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 10:32:36 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 19 10:31:08 2006. You know what, I don't want to take this any further, your right, I'm wrong, you win, I lose, you get a e-cookie. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 19 10:35:55 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 10:32:36 2006. No, the only benefit to the fact that we proved that it is lower-density is that we can continue the thread where this sub-thread branched off. I believe it was a post where RIPTA said it was low-density. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 19 10:41:26 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 09:59:33 2006. But I've noticed that the only people who are saying it is not dense is people that have either not been to Staten Island, following typical sterotypes about SI or haven't been in the North Shore.How did I take the photo I posted if I've never been to the North Shore? I've been there plenty. I've walked the entire line, as well as walked and driven around every neighborhood around it. And no Castelton and West Brighton is no short walk to the ferry. It's a 20-25 minute ride on the bus from there so I have no clue what it would be like walking. I almost moved into an apartment in New Brighton, and I had a friend who also lived there. It was a ten minute walk from the ferry terminal. It would have been the same walk to the North Shore branch, which, again, hugs the shore. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 10:46:38 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 19 10:41:26 2006. Well if you say so.I used to live in New Brighton but moved to West Brigton back in February. For me, it was a 20-25 minute walk to the ferry so whenever I was headed for the ferry, so we/I took the S42 or S52. There won't even be a New Brighton station due to the close proximity of the ferry and all the available bus lines. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Jun 19 10:52:24 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 19 10:17:53 2006. You aren't thinking outside the box though. Light rail along the North Shore would be a way to jumpstart development there (and raise property values there, getting rid of the junkyards and weed-choked lots in the area littering Richmond Terrace from West New Brighton westward).LIGHT RAIL will likely SPUR development. PROFF? Look at the Gold Coast. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Jun 19 11:02:59 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 17 18:49:59 2006. Uh, Staten Island is NOT like the other four boros in terms of transit ridership. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Mon Jun 19 12:14:22 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 19 10:17:53 2006.  
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 12:24:57 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Rail Blue on Mon Jun 19 12:14:22 2006. So New Brighton is more dense than St. George like I said. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 19 13:12:25 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 12:24:57 2006. So New Brighton is more dense than St. George like I said.Not many people live in St. George; it's a dense commercial and civic area. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 19 13:15:22 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 10:23:13 2006. Windows Live Local - West Brighton, Staten IslandOne project surrounded by one- to three-family houses and light industries. Thank you for proving my point. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 19 13:18:27 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Jun 19 10:52:24 2006. You aren't thinking outside the box though. Light rail along the North Shore would be a way to jumpstart development there (and raise property values there, getting rid of the junkyards and weed-choked lots in the area littering Richmond Terrace from West New Brighton westward).I'm arguing in favor of light rail vs. heavy rail, not against light rail. Light rail will spur development, but in the form of gentrification and improvement of underutilized/vacant properties. It isn't likely to result in significant zoning changes that would permit higher densities. There are already R3A and R3X zones along the North Shore, which are recent codes designed to inhibit dense development, not promote it. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Mon Jun 19 13:20:57 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Rail Blue on Mon Jun 19 12:14:22 2006. If you believe that map then the SIRT should be the light rail while the North Shore should be the heavy rail. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 13:28:20 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 19 13:12:25 2006. I agree that St. George is a dense commercial and civic area. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 13:29:52 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 19 13:15:22 2006. Ok what it is....I got high-densite and low-density confused with the amount of houses and people in a certain area. High-density is more a less, more developed as you said. So that was a mistake on my part, much of Staten Island is low-density but still has a growing population. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 13:31:04 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 13:29:52 2006. Ok what it is....I got high-density and low-density confused with the amount of houses and people in a certain area. High-density pretty much means that it is more developed as you said. So that was a mistake on my part, much of Staten Island is low-density but still has a growing population. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Mon Jun 19 13:36:50 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Mon Jun 19 13:20:57 2006. If you believe that map then the SIRT should be the light rail while the North Shore should be the heavy rail.Well, the total number of riders on each route in the report was notably similar... Perhaps both should be LRT, and Clifton depot should be converted to a trolley barn. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 19 13:45:57 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 13:31:04 2006. No, I believe RIPTA and I were speaking in terms of persons per square mile when we were discussing density. When we say the North Shore is not high density, we're saying there are not a lot of people per square mile. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 19 13:53:37 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Rail Blue on Mon Jun 19 12:14:22 2006. Thank you for posting that. I just started looking up that map before I realized that you had already posted it.But in order to prove my point that the North Shore is "low-density" relative to Manhattan, look at this graphic: 
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 14:03:22 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 19 13:45:57 2006. Well comparing it to the other boroughs, then that is true in every way but there plenty of homes everywhere. There was a Subrurban Sprawl that is slowing down now and townhouses and houses were being built everywhere. SI has really been built up compared to 30 years ago, but a majority of the population of SI lives on the North Shore. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 19 14:39:01 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 19 13:45:57 2006. No, I believe RIPTA and I were speaking in terms of persons per square mile when we were discussing density.I was speaking in terms of FAR. As development (and property value) increased, population density is likely to decrease, assuming no change in zoning. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 15:01:03 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 19 14:39:01 2006. Well they rezoned Bay Street to open it up to more businesses and are even planning on bringing a new mall to Edgewater Street behind Bay Street where the Naval Base is now.I would be excellent if they ever decide to fix up Richmond Terrace, they could start with repaving the street and then rezoning it. Richmond Terrace looks horrible as of now except the Snug Harbor portion. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jun 19 15:29:40 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 15:52:12 2006. With the type of "light rail" vehicles in use these days, the line between light and heavy rail transport is anywhere from blurry to non existent. Many so called modern light rail cars resemble heavy rapid transit cars more than traditional streetcars especially when they are being operated in trains of 2 X 2 car articulated units with high level platforms as is the case in L A and St. Louis. Also the concept of fixed stations at relatively long distances with platforms and long stretches of PRW rather than street running with stops every 2 to 3 blocks is more characteristic of heavy rapid transit than true light rail. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 19 15:42:38 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 15:01:03 2006. Well they rezoned Bay Street to open it up to more businesses and are even planning on bringing a new mall to Edgewater Street behind Bay Street where the Naval Base is now.I know; I worked on a few development proposals several years ago. Are they building the Bay Street bypass along Edgewater & Front Streets? I would be excellent if they ever decide to fix up Richmond Terrace, they could start with repaving the street and then rezoning it. Richmond Terrace looks horrible as of now except the Snug Harbor portion. Like I said, the existence of R3A and R3X zones indicates that the neighborhoods are resistant to higher density development. That's not the case in Stapleton and Clifton, which are already higher density and mostly commercial. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jun 19 15:47:06 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 19:00:00 2006. With threads this long, it's hard to determine just where to put a response to multiple issues. That being said, if you read my previous post somewhere in this thread, the line between light and heavy rail is becoming increasingly indistinct. Even a so called light rail line on the north shore would probably bear more resemblance to the SIRT than a true light rail system. Right now, the only light rail systems which still most closely resembles a traditional streetcar system are SEPTA both in the city of Philly itself and on the Red Arrow Division followed closely behind by Boston's Green Line and New Orleans. Memphis and Tampa also have traditional style streetcar systems but these wre specifically built to replicate traditional street running systems rather than operate a more modern mode of light rail. A good place for true traditional street running light rail in SI would be along such streets as Hylan Blvd or Richmond Av both of which now have bus routes and are wide enough to allow for a light rail systems in a reserved ROW either paved or ballasted in the center of those roads. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 15:49:59 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Jun 19 15:42:38 2006. I know; I worked on a few development proposals several years ago. Are they building the Bay Street bypass along Edgewater & Front Streets?Unless you know something I don't, Edgewater and Front Streets are already bypasses for Bay St. Like I said, the existence of R3A and R3X zones indicates that the neighborhoods are resistant to higher density development. That's not the case in Stapleton and Clifton, which are already higher density and mostly commercial. If the R3A and R3X zones....are zones, if they are ever rezoned, wouldn't that resistance be lifted? |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 15:56:56 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 19 15:47:06 2006. A traditional street system is not really what is trying to be captured here. But I did read your other post and the line between heavy rail and light rail is very blurred but here's a few factors that come into play with the North Shore line:-The amount of passengers riding the line daily, it's not alot when compared to other lines and R160-like trains would obviously be longer than LRT trains but what happens off hours when you have the heavy rail trains running with only 5 people on the entire train? LRT would suit that. -The cost per mile, this mixes in with the factor above, an excellent amount of people would use the new line but heavy rail as we know costs more to run than LRT, and also cost more to maintain. -The line will have only 6 stops, why spend more money on heavy rail and keeping the row separated when it would be much simpler to use LRT and have it inter-twine with Richmond Terrace at the same level. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 16:04:52 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 19 15:29:40 2006. Well actually most light rail trains look nothing like heavy rail trains in the US or Europe...the way Light Rail is used though varies greatly. You have Manchester Metrolink in England, it pretty much street-runs the entire route with stops pretty frequently but the HBLR has some good gaps between stations. Then you have the Docklands Light Railway which has stops as frequently as the London Underground below which can be a close distance or a long distance. It runs on a separated row the whole route and uses some abandoned British Rail rows.Just because a line is light rail doesn't mean it has to be street-running for half it's route. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 16:08:28 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 19 15:47:06 2006. Check out wikipedia:Light rail - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia List of light-rail transit systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by TeaBiscuit18thAveDude on Mon Jun 19 16:17:45 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 15:49:59 2006. I've driven on Edgewater before. It definitely bypasses Bay St. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by CANAM on Mon Jun 19 16:18:09 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 16:08:28 2006. I say extent the subway to S.I., and connect it to SIRTOA. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 16:22:03 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 19 15:29:40 2006. And I knew it has happened before...there have been other abandoned rail lines converted into light rail lines. The LRT I'm talking about though is Birmingham's Midland Metro but it isn't doing well (ridership-wise) because it is awaiting further extensions.Midland Metro Midland Metro Shots I'm just showing that it is possible because it was mentioned in another post that all abandonded rail lines that started out as heavy rail lines should stay as a heavy rail line which isn't true one bit. A portion of Baltimore's Light Rail lines run on row that was once used by heavy rail. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by tydev417 on Mon Jun 19 16:24:35 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by CANAM on Mon Jun 19 16:18:09 2006. SIRTOA->>SIR btw...everybody has been wishing for that though. Maybe the PATH can be extended along some abandoned or unused row to a tunnel under the Kill Van Kull and then run to Forest and Richmond Ave. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Mon Jun 19 16:26:05 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 19 13:53:37 2006. But in order to prove my point that the North Shore is "low-density" relative to Manhattan, look at this graphic:That map certainly shows that (as well as which parts of Manhattan aren't very populated), although Manhattan being much denser than SI should be bloody obvious. Perhaps a more interesting comparison is SI and eastern Queens:   
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by New Brunswick Station on Mon Jun 19 16:30:38 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 19 10:17:21 2006. the north shore is medium density. SO THERE. |
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