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| Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? (268071) | |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 18:57:01 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 17 18:43:46 2006. Because they're still working on it if you haven't noticed. Type in Howland Hook in Google and what do you get?? A freight terminal, as I said before, you just love to be on odd ends with people. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by Jackson Park B on Sat Jun 17 18:57:21 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 18:54:37 2006. It doesn't. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 19:00:00 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 17 18:49:59 2006. So I see what this is all about, you're just debating because you dislike light rail and want heavy rail back. You don't even live in Staten Island so it won't even affect you.....once again another dead argument. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 19:01:12 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Jackson Park B on Sat Jun 17 18:57:21 2006. It's sitting clear in your face that light rail is cheaper to build and cheaper to maintain, along with a cheaper infrastructure. You and olog fail to see that, I wonder why SI is sticking to light rail then? |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail (this is why) |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 19:12:28 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail (this is why), posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 17 18:54:02 2006. It's clear you don't even know what your posting a picture of...it's in Snug Harbor and that's one of the areas that need reconstructing. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Sat Jun 17 19:12:46 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 17 18:10:48 2006. Not there, since they would hypothetically be "connecting" with the HBLRT, not operating on it..Would anyone be so pig-headed as to construct duplicate tracks from Bayonne to Hoboken? |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 19:14:35 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Jackson Park B on Sat Jun 17 18:46:48 2006. Light rail is still more cost efficient than heavy rail, one of the main reasons why it came about and why there aren't more subways and commuter rail lines running throughout the world. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 19:16:16 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by Rail Blue on Sat Jun 17 19:12:46 2006. Tell me about it, this isn't 1908, of course there would be a hub or something to that affect at one of the HBLR stations in Bayonne. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 19:17:12 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 17 18:44:17 2006. Pity you use your own opinions as facts. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 19:28:10 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 17 18:36:40 2006. If you believe that report, you got another thing coming. "Less frequent headway" is purely an artifice, and the whole board knows that. Heavy rail has historically met or beaten light rail headways.WRONG, this is Staten Island we're talking about not the NYC Subways, during non-peak hours, the line would have very low ridership, just ride the S40 either way at around 11:30am and it's going to be a fast ride end to end. A light rail line would meet demands cost-wise, maintainence-wise, and ridership-wise. That's also baloney. There are no grade crossings along that right of way, unless you're talking the one along the west shore, and that's not in the proposal. Further, light rail with grade crossings is more dangerous than heavy rail with grade crossings, anyway—and the way they run light rail nowadays, all LRVs have to stop dead at each crossing before proceeding, even if there is no station, and that will kill average speed This just shows you don't know what you're arguing over. Yes there are grade crossings that are necessary in certain locations like New Brighton and West Brighton. Hogwash again, unless they're basing this on their "free" Tottenville service, which they operate artificially slowly anyway. Just stop please your argument is hilarious, the SIR is not "free" if you're headed to or from St. George and/or transfering to a connecting bus line. And it's nowhere no slow. You don't live in Staten Island so it will not be affecting YOU. It will benifical to those of us that actually LIVE in Staten Island and don't mind a light rail line becuase it is still a form of transportation to the ferry. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by Jackson Park B on Sat Jun 17 19:37:28 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 19:14:35 2006. Uhh WMATA is planning an extensionm to Dulles and has floated extending to BWI. LA is finally again talking completing the Red line ti Santa Monica/UCLA. Chicago is hoping to expand--the reopened Paulina south segment is step one. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 19:54:50 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Jackson Park B on Sat Jun 17 19:37:28 2006. Those are all expansions of existing lines, I'm talking about building a completely new line not and expansion to an already heavy rail line. As of recently, only light rail lines have been built as a completely new line and brand new subway lines in the US are becoming very rare. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Jun 17 19:57:07 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 17 18:36:40 2006. If you believe that report, you got another thing coming.Yes, how dare I believe some report compiled by trained professionals when I can simply listen to the uneducated ramblings of some foamer. "Less frequent headway" is purely an artifice, and the whole board knows that. Do you not have Adobe installed or something. I can't figure out why you're either unable or unwilling to actually read that document. I merely quoted the relevant portions, but if you actually read the report you'll find that that is the shortest cost effective headway. The annual operations and maitenance cost for heavy rail is already nearly double that of the light rail alternative. Reducing headways to the level of the light rail would only lead an increasing of that cost, and that would further marginalize the heavy rail alternative. Heavy rail has historically met or beaten light rail headways. Really? Where exactly is there a heavy rail system with a sub 60 second headway? I think the folks at SEPTA's subway surface would like to introduce you to their operation. That's also baloney. There are no grade crossings along that right of way, unless you're talking the one along the west shore, and that's not in the proposal. It's bad enough that you're clearly not familiar with the area, but at least read the report to find out that there are indeed crossings which cannot simply be closed. The project also includes a bike path which would require access points. With heavy rail these clearly would have to be over or under passes, while LRT could handle small at-grade pedestrian crossings. Further, light rail with grade crossings is more dangerous than heavy rail with grade crossings, anyway Lets see some figures here. I've offered up plenty of proff, time for you to return the favor. the way they run light rail nowadays, all LRVs have to stop dead at each crossing before proceeding, even if there is no station, and that will kill average speed. That depends solely upon the method of crossing protection used by the system. If they use a simple traffic signal with no physical protection then yes, that is the case. If they go for a crossing gate and signal as a commuter or freight railroad would use then they do not have to slow down. SEPTA's Rt101/102 resignalling program seeks to achieve just that. They also leave out the FRA separation and new facilities necessary for light rail maintenance. Clearly if NJT can get the Bordentown secondary for their Riverline a booming freight line like SI's North Shore won't have any problems at all. And yes, they mentioned maitenance facilities, they'd be west of Arlington Station, roughly south of the freight yard to be constructed in that area. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by Mark Michalovic on Sat Jun 17 20:07:13 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 12:22:40 2006. No, the current SIR line is fine as a heavy rail line. Now about the North Shore branch, trying to reactivate it as a heavy rail line may be a little costly and may prove time consuming, so light rail may be the best way to go for that line to reduce costs and get it off the ground already.Whatever mode they use for the new lines, if they ever are built, I think it'd make sense to make all lines on the island the same mode. That is, if they build light rail lines, convert the SIRT; otherwise build the new lines to use SIRT equipment. I say this just because it would make life easier back at the maintainence facility, you know, one manual, one training course, etc. Also the same equipment could be used on all lines that way. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by Mark Michalovic on Sat Jun 17 20:11:04 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by WillD on Sat Jun 17 18:27:33 2006. This is right up there with SEPTA's Rt100 to King of PrussiaPutting like that isn't very encouraging. SEPTA still has done precious little to make that one happen. I wish the SI project a better future. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail (this is why) |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Sat Jun 17 21:31:04 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail (this is why), posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 17 18:54:02 2006. They would have to put the rail line atop a bulkhead along the Kill - or otherwise elevate it. It's perilously close to the water there.wayne |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Jun 17 21:37:40 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by Sand Box John on Sat Jun 17 14:10:37 2006. How?We were talking about the rolling stock on the SIRTOA..not the North Shore planned route. But I see where your coming from as far as "co-operation" and "differences of opinions"..is concerned. Overall..I would rather see a LRT system started up here...in Staten Island..with branches to Brooklyn over the Narrows Bridge to Queens. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by Mark Michalovic on Sat Jun 17 21:45:23 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by Edwards! on Sat Jun 17 21:37:40 2006. Overall..I would rather see a LRT system started up here...in Staten Island..with branches to Brooklyn over the Narrows Bridge to Queens.That's a good point. I know the bridge approaches are too steep for subway trains, but I don't know if LRVs could make the grade. Does anyone know? |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Jun 17 21:51:36 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 19:54:50 2006. Tren Urbano is heavy |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 21:53:56 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Jun 17 21:51:36 2006. I didn't say completely gone just rare to find a newly built subway/elevated line in the US. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by Alex L. on Sat Jun 17 22:01:38 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 17 18:43:46 2006. Track from the new Waste Transfer Station at Fresh Kills to the AK Bridge is expected to go into service by the end of this October. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Jun 17 22:04:26 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 21:53:56 2006. Noted |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Jun 17 22:13:13 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 19:54:50 2006. True...Are there any completely new subways being built in the US today?Here.. in NY,there are only extentions being constructed,if you exclude the SAS line. This line will begin as a extention of another subway line..so it still doesn't count. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Jun 17 22:15:01 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Edwards! on Sat Jun 17 22:13:13 2006. I think Tren Urbano is the most recent project. Now that the main line is built, it will just be branches from here on |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 22:17:49 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Jun 17 22:15:01 2006. Well about Tren Urbano....San Juan, Puerto Rico isn't in the US. I have no clue when the last new line was built in the US. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 22:25:07 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 17 18:43:46 2006. I'm sorry Olog, I realized that I came back just a little too tense, let me re-word that:Howland Hook yard was always a freight yard for the Howland Hook Marine Terminal. Although passenger operation ceased on the NSL branch in 1953, freight trains still ran to Howland Hook up until 1990. Afterwards, it became abandoned but as of 2004, they began revitalizing all the structures and bridges from about Port Richmond train station up to Bayway and Elizabeth in Jersey. They revitalized the Arthur Kill Rail Bridge, and put in new track on the West Shore Line and even a little past Howland Hook over near Arlington. Freight trains should be up and running, I think late this year or next year. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Jun 17 22:38:37 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 19:00:00 2006. Nah...It's hard to believe that the city of New York would EVER seriously constructy a LRT system..EVEN thought it would make the most sense[due to the rising cost of building new subway lines].. Lots of folks feel this way, dude.. In any case..I wouldn't take him too seriously. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by LA Scott on Sat Jun 17 22:42:40 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Edwards! on Sat Jun 17 22:13:13 2006. I did a bit of digging a while back, and I do not think there is any new subway/heavy urban rail construction going on in the US right now for the first time in over 100 years (unless you count South Ferry as new constuction - I call it replacement constuction)The last new heavy rail construction was the WMATA Largo extension. The last completely new heavy rail system in the US was the LA subway (unless you count the Las Vegas Monorail). |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 22:48:48 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by Edwards! on Sat Jun 17 22:38:37 2006. It's not too hard to believe, since the MTA first started, all they've ever done was make an extension there, a connection to a line there, demolish another line but not once in the MTA, NYCTA, or TA's history have they built a brand new subway line.As of the way things are going now, LRT is the only option and I'm not really a LRT-fan either it's becoming more and more appearant that LRT may be the only way to go if we ever want a brand new line. If you were to keep the North Shore branch of the SIR as heavy rail, you would have to consider the price of new train cars because there's no way that all 64 cars can be shared amongst both lines. That's one major factor right there why LRT is a perfect candidate. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Jun 17 22:52:17 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 22:17:49 2006. If you mean new heavy rail trunk line in the 50 states, that'd undoubtedly be the Los Angeles Red Line back in 1993. As you and others have noted every other heavy rail system in the country is just building extensions while cities which previously had no transit are choosing LRT. We're stuck with 10 cities in the country with heavy rail subway systems, all while the number of light rail systems keeps increasing. Whether this bodes well for a future in which the public becomes more transit dependent is debatable. The possibility certainly exists of using LRTs to cheaply implement transit and spark demand for further services. Look at what HBLRT's sucess has done for the folks along the Tenafly line, NJT and Mr. Warrington are all ready to renig on their promise to run the line up there, but the good citizens of Bergen County are not going to let them run off without giving them a train. That kind of attitude can be great in getting the massive quantities of funding required for heavy rail construction. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sat Jun 17 22:56:56 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 22:17:49 2006. Puerto Rico is definitely within the US. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail (this is why) |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Jun 17 22:58:25 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail (this is why), posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Sat Jun 17 21:31:04 2006. Once more we go to the study Olog loves to hate, page 24 (pdf page 28):5. Waterfront segment: Con Edison lot near Bard Avenue to U.S. Gypsum (1.0 mile) |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Jun 17 23:08:14 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by The Port of Authority on Sat Jun 17 22:56:56 2006. Did they sneak a star onto the flag when nobody was looking? I could go count but I'm fairly sure it's still 50, or did we finally let Mississippi go do their own thing and picked up the PR in return? If PR is a state then does that mean we can reopen Vieques, since every US state has a bombing range? Might want to try looking it up first next time. It is a commonwealth which means we get to shower it with free shit and they pay our social security and not much else. So it makes perfect sense that we give a country that otherwise would be a banana republic a subway, right? I mean they don't pay taxes, but we should build them a subway when even Houston doesn't have one, right? |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Jun 17 23:18:02 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 17 18:49:59 2006. I certainly left a large amount of wiggle room there for the cost overruns. Short of a 50% cost overrun the LRT could be built for less than half a billion dollars. And what's with your sudden disrespect for studies? You hold the cost estimates for your precious Lackawanna Cutoff sacrosanct, but of course every other project that might compete for federal money is going to have a 200% cost overrun.Further, SI is a part of NYC where no light rail has operated for well over sixty years. Light rail is not coming back to any part of NY. Somewhere, possibly echoing through the vacuum that is his head, is undoubtedly a statement from some California auto lobbiest who likely said the same damn thing about LA in 1980. Whoops, times change, systems change, and people evolve. Or you can just be a foamer and be left pining for the 'good old days'. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Jun 17 23:43:16 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 17 18:47:41 2006. For the last time, startup costs and street-running—and mainly because heavy-rail proposals would involve building underground segments. With the SIR, no such thing is the case. (And let's not forget political patronage.)Actually no. The German cities after WWII are a prime example. Hamburg, Nuremberg, and Munich all adopted heavy rail subways, while Frankfurt, Bonn, Stuttgart, and Koln opted for a high capacity light rail solution. In all cases, regardless of the mode chosen subway tunnels were built for the transit system. Frankfurt constructed an entire subway system from their light rail trains and operates more lines than Nuremberg. Koln's system features extensive subway and dedicated right of way construction, resulting in jusr 12% of the routes sharing space with traffic. Stuttgart followed Frankfurt's example and constructed a very comprehensive Metro system from their light rail network. In all cases the cities which went for the LRT Metro solution have a far more flexible system with nearly every bit the economy normally attributed to heavy rail systems. Today Bielfeld. Bochum, Dusseldorf, Duisburg, Essen, and Hannover all have pre-metro LRT subways of some variety. These cities admittedly are nothing like NYC, but then neither is Staten Island's North Shore. You'll never need SAS-like capacity on that stretch, and if you by some incredible fluke of the real estate market actually do need it then you can always upgrade down the line. Your political patronage canard is a double edged sword. It could just as easily be that the folks in Hamburg, Munich, and Nuremburg had friends who owned construction companies and would stand to profit handsomely from Metro building. As such it's a moot point. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Jun 18 00:06:01 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by WillD on Sat Jun 17 23:08:14 2006. Of course I know it's not a state of the US. I never said that. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by New Brunswick Station on Sun Jun 18 00:07:56 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by Mark Michalovic on Sat Jun 17 21:45:23 2006. San Francisco's cable cars undoubtedly could make the grade. :) |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Jun 18 00:23:08 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by WillD on Sat Jun 17 23:08:14 2006. Will, if you're not gonna contribute something ON TOPIC, then don't post, please, b/c most of us are sick of seeing the same old shit. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Jun 18 00:23:56 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 22:17:49 2006. It's certainly within the US, it's just not a state. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Jun 18 00:25:27 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 18:00:47 2006. Plus one can be built along the Travis branch, or use the Clifton shops along with SIRT. |
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Staten Island Railway |
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Posted by sitechboy on Sun Jun 18 00:29:35 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Jun 18 00:06:01 2006. Sorry to skew from the North Shore Idea, but I have a SIR Question.Today I was taking SIR for the first time in a few months. The ferry arrived at St George a litle late, and I got to the train 4 minutes after the hour. Sadly, the train had left promptly on the hour and I was stuck inside "fare control" as my unlimited card wouldnt let me out, lol. So me and my ferry friends got to enjoy the waiting area for a half hour. When did this practice start? I took the ferry/train combo for 20 years, and it was always the practice that the train waits for the ferry transfers, even if it was late. I feel like I've been on ferries that arrive 10 to 15 minutes late, and the train was still there. I don't quite understand the reasoning here at all, since observationally it seems like 95% of southbound SIR customers board at St. George. Further, they are the only ones paying to use the system, so I feel like they deserve this courtesty. Additionally, the following train now had two ferry loads of passengers. My guess is they're just concerned with their on-time statistics, but this is not in their customers' best interest. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by L Train on Sun Jun 18 00:42:32 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Rail Blue on Sat Jun 17 10:53:34 2006. I think it would save about 15-20 minutes in comparison to the bus and ferry. A silver lining in this project is that it has bipartisan support. Since it's a light rail project and not a conventional subway I can't fathom NIMBY's complaining about it. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jun 18 00:52:03 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Jun 18 00:23:08 2006. haha you're mad he dissed PR |
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Re: Staten Island Railway |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sun Jun 18 00:52:42 2006, in response to Staten Island Railway, posted by sitechboy on Sun Jun 18 00:29:35 2006. It's not supposed to leave that early, usually the trains depart around 8 minutes after the ferry's arrival but since you mentioned that the ferry was a little late, that probably explains why then. The train has to still stay on schedule even if the ferry is late, which even then the schedules are timed to meet with the ferries plus a little leeway so your boat must've been pretty late to miss it.I do know that the express trains leave like 4-6 minutes after the boat's arrival and the local leaves at the normal time of 8 minutes. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by WillD on Sun Jun 18 01:00:10 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 17 18:15:48 2006. Just because something's "documented" doesn't make it factual.You're right, your posts here are a form of documentation and they're clearly not factual. Look at HBLRT and its costs reaching into the billions right now—those costs would never have been accumulated if that line was built as a Hoboken-Bayonne commuter rail service, even an electrified one. Yes HBLRT is quite overbuilt and thus quite expensive. It certain has some bells and whistles which a North Shore LRT system would not require. The catenary, if equipped with larger insulators probably would work with the NJCL between Long Branch and Bay Head, and a far less complicated arrangement would work equally well. The cab signalling system could possibly be deleted, even though that'd potentially eliminate the possibility of running expresses on the opposite direction track. Still with all the work done in Jersey City and into Hoboken HBLRT really isn't a fair comparison to the simpler construction for a North Shore LRT. The Snug Harbor alignment could be problematic what with the problems with geotechnical analysis. While the LRT/DMU places the tracks inland of a bike trail over the bulkhead the heavy rail plan would place the tracks on the north side of the bike path, thus placing them over the current edge of water. This creates a greater load on the unpredictable littoral soil and increases the uncertainty with which the engineers can assess the loading characteristics of that soil. Such uncertainty leads to greater construction costs, since they either have to prepare for very great soil consolidation or face the prospect that after 5 or more years the line will have sunk up to a foot. look at the Trenton-Camden "River Line". What is there to look at? You think your electrified commuter line would come in for less than 17 million dollars a mile? Hell it's a few million shy of 20% the cost per mile of HBLRT. If you're looking for some shred of evidence of economic malfeasance on the part of NJT's light rail construction you're barking up the wrong tree. It may not be the most politically sound project, but it's hardly been a waste of money. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by WillD on Sun Jun 18 02:40:31 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by Mark Michalovic on Sat Jun 17 21:45:23 2006. Both the Bayonne and Verrazano bridges have approaches with 4% grades. These are considerably less than those specified by light rail manufacturers. The minimum seems to be the Bombardier Flexity Classic, which has about a 5% capability, while the Skoda Astra is capable of climbing a 9 or 10 percent grade. Most LRVs seem to fall into the range of being able to tackle 7 to 8 percent grades, and that includes most LRVs similar to the Kinki-Sharyo (who is quite reticent on such details) LRVs that NJT operates. Presumably the MTA would go for some similar vehicle, whether it be a Kinki-Sharyo, a Bombardier Flexity Swift (like Minneapolis), a Siemens Avanto (like Houston and San Diego), or some variant of the Regio-Citadis from Alstom, which has yet to be imported to the states. In any event any of these vehicles would be quite capable of climbing both the bridges without too much |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sun Jun 18 08:23:52 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by tydev417 on Sat Jun 17 19:14:35 2006. This is a really stupid pissing contest.Light rail and heavy rail both have their merits, and one was picked over the other based on projected ridership patterns for both. Heavy rail, unless it's on a commuter-rail timetable, doesn't make sense for a low-density area like the North Shore of Staten Island. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by Brighton Private on Sun Jun 18 09:24:27 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 17 18:25:38 2006. But there is vastly less infrastructure to maintain with light rail. Less complex stations, less elaborate construction, etc. |
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Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Jun 18 10:06:36 2006, in response to Re: Study Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jun 18 00:52:03 2006. I don't give a shit what he says about PR, that's his misinformed bias. I'm just tired of seeing him spew the same bullshit everytime I mention the island, especially when it doesn't have anything to do with railfanning. |
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Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Jun 18 10:15:07 2006, in response to Re: Here comes Staten Is. Light Rail?, posted by WillD on Sun Jun 18 02:40:31 2006. So all the arguments that HBLR can't handle the Bayonne climb is just a bunch of bull, provided the Kinki-Sharyo's are like all other LRVs |
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