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| (259624) | |
Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Easy on Sun May 28 18:25:50 2006 I was looking at the SAS FEIS and read that the targeted express train headways on the Lexington Ave. line cannot be maintained during rush hour. (Chapter 1). The target is 29 TPH but usually only 24-26 TPH are achieved mainly because of excessive dwell times. I've also read that lines in Moscow can maintain headways of 45 TPH. What, if anything, is Moscow doing differently? |
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sun May 28 18:47:30 2006, in response to Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Easy on Sun May 28 18:25:50 2006. If Moscow can maintain 45 TPH, I wonder what Japan can handle? 125 TPH??I have no clue why they have such frequent headways though. |
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Easy on Sun May 28 19:05:04 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by tydev417 on Sun May 28 18:47:30 2006. I think that Tokyo has at least 30 and maybe 45 TPH on several lines.I remember reading on another site, (or was it here?), where people from Moscow were complaining that headways in NY were way too long. They were used to a somewhere around 20-30 TPH off-peak. I would love to visit Moscow's subway and witness those trains, crowds, and headways. |
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(Sponsored) |
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| (259706) | |
Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun May 28 20:55:46 2006, in response to Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Easy on Sun May 28 18:25:50 2006. They used to operate 32 tph on the Lex. The also operated 36 tph on the Flushing Line and according to BOT reports they used to operate 42 tph on the Third Ave El.The theoretical capacity is based on a train's braking rate, its acceleration and the dwell time within the station. For trains with NYCT's braking/acceleration characteristics and a 30 second dwell time, this works out to around 40 tph. What, if anything, is Moscow doing differently? Basically Moscow understands what is required to maintain high capacity operation and does it. Schedules are made to the second - not the 1/2 minute like NYCT. Moscow also provides feedback at each station to the operating crew as to how well they are adhering to the schedule. This feedback is implemented by resetting upcounting clock. The clock counts the number of seconds since the last train left the station. If the schedule calls for 40 tph, then all the crew has to remember is 90 seconds. Increasing peak service requires managerial talents that is beyond NYCT's present capabilities, as shown on April 13, 2002. On that Saturday, NYCT tried unsuccessfully to operate 30 tph on the Flushing Line. The did not succeed despite a score of managers at the 111th St Station. NYCT has taken another tactic. They claim that the Lex is operating at capacity. Their anecdotal evidence consists of the crowding, slow trains and safety. (They was never a serious accident on the Lex, when they operated at 32 tph.) They have convinced the public that their only salvation will be the 2nd Ave Subway. (Of course, if the Lex operated at previous service levels, the need for a 2nd Ave Subway couldn't be justified.) The lack of a 2nd Ave Subway has absolved NYCT's management of any responsibility to do better with what they have. These managers will be collecting their pensions, when the 2nd Ave Subway becomes operational. |
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun May 28 20:57:37 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by tydev417 on Sun May 28 18:47:30 2006. Moscow has no express tracks, it has no diverging tracks. There are no merges, and there are no diverges. Every train is going to the same place, so no one has to wait for thier train.AND THEY DAMN WELL *KNOW* that there is another train 90 seconds out, and so have no need to hold the doors. ROAR |
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun May 28 20:58:59 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by tydev417 on Sun May 28 18:47:30 2006. 125 TPH is a train every 28 seconds. |
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun May 28 21:17:27 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun May 28 20:57:37 2006. There are no merges, and there are no diverges.That's a straw man. Merges/diverges are far less a constraint on line capacity than stations. An understanding of what determines capacity, should cause one to reject that argument. However, if you want working examples: The Third Ave El operated at 42 tph, with locals, expresses and thru expresses. There were 2 downtown terminals and 3 uptown terminals.The Third Ave El also had a grade crossing at one of its terminals. Grade crossings should have no impact on maximum service levels either. The tracks on the Brooklyn Bridge between Sands St and Park Row operated at 66 tph with merges and diverges. |
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| (259725) | |
Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Easy on Sun May 28 21:20:12 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun May 28 20:55:46 2006. I agree. From my reading of the FEIS, NYCT is saying that excessive crowding leads to excessive dwell times and that's the reason for the delays. I remember reading somewhere in the FEIS that dwell times were frequently in the 40-50 second range. 50 seconds seems unnecessarily long. There's really not much reason for them to be more than 30 seconds on average. The MTA almost words it in such a way that almost absolves them of any responsibility for the excessive dwell times.In any event, it's hard to read the FEIS and not come to the conclusion that the SAS is needed. |
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| (259757) | |
Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Market-Frankford on Sun May 28 22:50:32 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Easy on Sun May 28 19:05:04 2006. Toronto:
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by 33rd Street on Sun May 28 22:52:58 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Easy on Sun May 28 21:20:12 2006. True but SAS *could* decrease ridership on the M15. How? Providing another way to get downtown/uptown without having to take a bus. |
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| (259769) | |
Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sun May 28 23:11:23 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Market-Frankford on Sun May 28 22:50:32 2006. That must explain why the trains came so frequently in the TTC videos I posted a few weeks ago.It's one line though, so nothing can really conflict with the line but the short-turn runs. I'm wondering how the headways were when the Bloor-Danforth and Yonge-University lines were connected. |
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| (259774) | |
Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by L Train on Sun May 28 23:22:32 2006, in response to Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Easy on Sun May 28 18:25:50 2006. Moscow isn't run by an incompetent agency. Hopefully CBTC will enable the TPH to increase in this system. |
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| (259776) | |
Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Easy on Sun May 28 23:28:33 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Market-Frankford on Sun May 28 22:50:32 2006. Their max is still only 24 tph. Actually they only commit to 20, but hint at possibly as many as 30 tph. I guess that's similar to what NYCT offers. But that's no Moscow. |
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| (259786) | |
Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Market-Frankford on Sun May 28 23:50:06 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Easy on Sun May 28 23:28:33 2006. I know. I was just saying that they have high frequencies too. 12 tph at 1:30 am.... |
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| (259787) | |
Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Market-Frankford on Sun May 28 23:51:33 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by tydev417 on Sun May 28 23:11:23 2006. Every other rush hour Y-U-S train short turns at St Clair West.One of the reasons the TTC stopped the integrated service was that it gave the Bloor line too much service. |
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| (259791) | |
Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun May 28 23:55:31 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by L Train on Sun May 28 23:22:32 2006. Hopefully CBTC will enable the TPH to increase in this system.CBTC is another management excuse for operating overcrowded and slow trains, just like the 2nd Ave Subway. Reuter has promised a 20% increase in tph on the Canarsie Line as a result of CBTC. That would raise service levels from 15 to 18 tph. They used to operate 24 tph on the Canarsie Line. What's required is train supervision. NYCT prefers to buy into ATS as part of a multi-billion dollar CBTC program. Moscow uses resettable clocks for effective train supervision. |
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| (259849) | |
Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Green over Green on Mon May 29 09:06:32 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun May 28 20:55:46 2006. Fantastic diagram. Thanks for the link. Now it would be interesting to compare actual ridership numbers on the Lex for 1954 and today. |
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| (259851) | |
Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Green over Green on Mon May 29 09:11:06 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Easy on Sun May 28 21:20:12 2006. I guess the reason is all those people still entering and exiting the train. Hard to close the doors with obstructions in the way.On the other hand, if riders knew that there was another, possibly less crowded, train waiting to enter the station they might not hold or block the doors. But how can MTA run more trains with all those passengers running up the dwell time? Kind of a chicken-and-egg situation. |
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| (259853) | |
Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by BMT Standard on Mon May 29 09:37:28 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun May 28 21:17:27 2006. The tracks on the Brooklyn Bridge between Sands St and Park Row operated at 66 tph with merges and diverges.Yes, but the Park Row station had four bays for loading/unloading trains, and the line fanned out to 4 tracks at Sands St. There is no reason that a line can't run 60 tph between stops if there are extra tracks/platforms at the stations to keep the trains from backing up. |
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| (259857) | |
Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by BMT Standard on Mon May 29 09:49:56 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by L Train on Sun May 28 23:22:32 2006. The CTA in Chicago manages to get close to 30 TPH on the Loop Elevated (I counted 28 northbound trains in the 8-9 AM and 5-6 PM hours northbound on the Wabash leg of the loop). 30 TPH is certainly doable if you can keep the dwell time to no more than 30 seconds. This may require platform conductors at busy stations. NYC subway cars are certainly designed with enough doors so that they can unload/load that quickly, even at a busy station like Grand Central. |
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| (259863) | |
Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Mon May 29 10:10:09 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Easy on Sun May 28 21:20:12 2006. Average isn't good enough. Peak is what matters.Even if you know there's another train right behind the crowded one in the station, wouldn't you still try to cram on? Its follower, while possibly emptier, will be moving just as slowly, stuck between stations for each of its leader's long dwells. But extensive dwells are a problem elsewhere as well. I encounter dwells of at least a minute at least one morning a week on the 1. At least in the case of the 1, the problem is bunching: the average train isn't terribly overcrowded, but if the scheduled 3-minute gap grows into a 5-minute or 8-minute or 12-minute gap, the train behind that gap is going to be very overcrowded. If only the dispatchers were more willing to use holding lights, particularly at 137. |
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| (259879) | |
Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Railman718 on Mon May 29 10:45:35 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by David of Broadway on Mon May 29 10:10:09 2006. They use them more at 168th Street. Sometimes at 137th Street, but rarely. |
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| (259880) | |
Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by BMTLines on Mon May 29 10:59:06 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Green over Green on Mon May 29 09:11:06 2006. Several years ago I worked at a 34th and Park location. Many times when I would have to let up to three 6 trains pass before there was room to squeeze on. And yes - I pushed and squeezed on whatever space I could get when it came my turn at the front of the platform.The adventure repeated itself when I tried to transfer for the Astoria line at 59th Street. Several times an N or W would pull in packed to the seams - it opened doors to let people out but they took so long to exit that no-one had the chance to board - trains would close doors and leave virtually empty with crowds continuing to build up at the platform. Believe me when it takes up to two hours to get home for a distance that is maybe 8 miles on the map it can get very frustrating - at some point you try to get on the next train no matter what! When NY Water Taxi resumed LIC - 34th st service - I was there on the first day!!! It was more expensive but a much less frustrating commute (and I lost weight doing the walk from 1st to Park)... |
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| (259882) | |
Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Mon May 29 11:06:33 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Railman718 on Mon May 29 10:45:35 2006. I didn't realize 168 had them.They should be used at 168, 137, and 96. All three. If there's a growing gap behind a train, hold that train to shrink the gap. |
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by stephenk on Mon May 29 12:04:52 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun May 28 20:55:46 2006. The Moscow Metro also has very high capacity termini, no timewasting fumigating/tipping out rules, more platform staff/dispatchers, and passengers who are less inclined to block closing doors. |
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by stephenk on Mon May 29 12:09:06 2006, in response to Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Easy on Sun May 28 18:25:50 2006. Moscow Metro presently runs a maximum of approx 38tph (a 95 sec frequency), with 160m trains on its busiest lines. |
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Easy on Mon May 29 12:18:35 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by stephenk on Mon May 29 12:04:52 2006. I pulled this from SubTalk. It looks like Moscow is strict about the dwell times. In the end I think that's the way to do it if you want to maintain capacity.Posted by announcement_guy on Sat Sep 27 15:33:06 2003, in response to Topic: The Pro's and Con's of EVERY Subway System in the World, posted by Christopher Rivera on Sat Sep 27 12:03:18 2003. Moscow's Metro system (as of 1995): Pros: 1. Dirt cheap (even for Moscovites) - single fare was 7 cents in 1995 2. Train frequencies of 90 seconds on each line during rush hours, 3 minutes during off-peak hours 3. Stations everywhere in the city 4. Fast service with almost no service disruptions (compared to London anyway) 5. Beautiful stations Cons: 1. The system is overcrowded, and the fact that doors close even though 50 people still want to get on the train doesn't help 2. Confusing names of stations and lines. Lines usually carry the names of both termini (you'd ride the "14th St-Canarsie Line" instead of the L train), and transfer stations never have the same name. 3. Too many beggars and bums in front of the station buildings and on the trains |
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Railman718 on Mon May 29 12:30:28 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by David of Broadway on Mon May 29 11:06:33 2006. The "Holding Lights" at 168 Street is the Train Order Signal at the N/B and S/B ends of the platforms when they are red 240 Tower is holding you(they will tell you on the raido also seen it myslef, heard it myself and had it done to me from time to time).Also that Homeball on the North End will be at Danger also. |
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Mon May 29 12:39:09 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Railman718 on Mon May 29 12:30:28 2006. Wow, I didn't know the Train Order Signals were actually used nowadays! |
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Railman718 on Mon May 29 12:40:57 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by David of Broadway on Mon May 29 12:39:09 2006. Hey as i have found out you are never too old to learn something new!!! Espiecally with this job. |
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Mon May 29 13:00:48 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Railman718 on Mon May 29 12:40:57 2006. Are they ever used anywhere else?Where else are trains held without holding lights? Once in a while (not nearly often enough), the morning dispatcher at Brighton Beach will hold a southbound B train a Sheepshead Bay by station PA. I still don't understand why there are no holding lights there. (They would certainly make a lot more sense there than at Newkirk or at Church southbound.) |
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Red Line to Glenmont on Mon May 29 13:43:37 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Market-Frankford on Sun May 28 23:50:06 2006. This is just a theory, but from my experience with other European Subways, there often are just 5 50' cars on a line, so they pull into a station fast, decelerate really rapidly and then just take off, like Paris and Barcelona. In New York the trains are really long, and seem to slow down for stopping for a really long time in comparison. This could be the difference, that short light trains allow for closer spacing. |
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| (259973) | |
Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Market-Frankford on Mon May 29 15:13:03 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Red Line to Glenmont on Mon May 29 13:43:37 2006. You're probably right. On the BSL in Philly, that concept comes into play between Girard and Eire. Express trains are scheduled to make the run in 5 minutes. Ridge Spur trains are scheduled to make the run in 4, even though they make an intermediate stop. Express trains are 5 cars long, while Ridge spur trains are 2 cars long. |
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| (259974) | |
Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Market-Frankford on Mon May 29 15:17:41 2006, in response to Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Easy on Sun May 28 18:25:50 2006. Line 14 (Météor) in Paris can run at 85 second intervals (about 42 tph). |
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon May 29 15:24:34 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by BMT Standard on Mon May 29 09:37:28 2006. the Park Row station had four bays for loading/unloading trains, and the line fanned out to 4 tracks at Sands St. There is no reason that a line can't run 60 tph between stops if there are extra tracks/platforms at the stations to keep the trains from backing up.The Brooklyn Bridge was cited as an example to show that merging-diverging track layouts are compatible with high service levels. The 66 tph limit was due to weight and speed restrictions on the Brooklyn Bridge. The spacing was determined by the bridge's maximum live load. The speed was limited to 17 mph to avoid vibrations. The el cars were heavier than the cable cars they replaced. They managed 90 tph and a 24 hour average of 40 tph in the cable car days. However, consider what happened after the Sands St station. First the there was the junction for the Fulton and Myrtle lines - at grade. Then each of these lines had a junction for short turning trains - also at grade. The Myrtle then junctions for the for the 5th-3rd and the main line els - also at grade. The Fulton had junctions for the Brighton (Franklin Av) and the Canarsie - at grade. That's a lot of of merging and diverging and I haven't mentioned what happend to some of these branches after they left the Myrtle. That's far more than the Lex is subjected to. |
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| (259998) | |
Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by stephenk on Mon May 29 16:13:35 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Market-Frankford on Mon May 29 15:17:41 2006. "Line 14 (Météor) in Paris can run at 85 second intervals (about 42 tph)."In reality it runs an average peak headway of 115secs (31tph). |
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Railman718 on Mon May 29 16:19:07 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by David of Broadway on Mon May 29 13:00:48 2006. Ah!! Speaking of Lexington there is a Train Order Signal S/B at 86th Street on the Express Track that has been used to hold trains from time to time as well.I got held there once by Grand Central due to a BIG time delay Behind me when i worked the East Side Last Summer. Signal was at Danger as well. I knew something was up beacuse i seen a green automatic down the tunnel a bit. |
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon May 29 16:22:04 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun May 28 20:57:37 2006. However, how are their terminals arranged? (This should determine how many trains can run.) |
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by stephenk on Mon May 29 16:41:57 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon May 29 16:22:04 2006. Moscow Metro termini usually have one arrival track, and one departure track, and an island platform. Beyond the station are two reversing sidings in between the two main running lines, although only one is usually needed for reversals. Trains are double ended, and thus trains can be reversed in approx 80secs. The trains often only dwell for 20-30secs in the arrival platform as they do not have to be checked that they are empty as thoroughly as in NYC and London.There are a few exceptions. A few termini have just one reversing siding. Two termini have trains reversing in two platform tracks instead of the sidings. One of these termini handles 34tph with 120m trains. The station has side platforms, and the crossover is unusually nearer the penultimate station that the terminus (although both station are very close together). Trains only dwell for 45secs at this terminus. |
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by stephenk on Mon May 29 16:47:26 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by tydev417 on Sun May 28 18:47:30 2006. I wonder what Japan can handle? 125 TPH??The most frequent line in Tokyo (Marounuchi Line) runs 32tph, with 120m trains. It does the have the world's presently busiest one island platform, two tracks, scissors crossover, reverse in platform terminus. The second most frequent line (Ginza Line) runs 30tph with 120m trains. |
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Pelham Bay Dave on Mon May 29 17:52:30 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Railman718 on Mon May 29 16:19:07 2006. I got held thier a few times myself. One time even got turned back North. |
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Mon May 29 23:37:32 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by stephenk on Mon May 29 16:47:26 2006. The overground JR Chuo line has probably more more tph than any bona fide subway line in Tokyo.BTW Ginza line trains are only 96m long (16m x 6), while the Marunouchi's are 108m long (18m x 6). Ginza line was influenced by the IRT, and Marunouchi, based on the IND and R10s. |
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Easy on Tue May 30 00:00:57 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Wado MP73 on Mon May 29 23:37:32 2006. I didn't realize that the trains in Tokyo were so short! I like the idea of shorter trains and shorter headways, I just hadn't known that about Tokyo. |
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue May 30 01:08:00 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Red Line to Glenmont on Mon May 29 13:43:37 2006. that's a good theory. Another theory is that NYC's system is a lot more complex with more lines merging and diverging with each other that create bottlenecks and so on. Trains must also frequently switch from local to express and viceversa creating delays. Other systems have lines that are generally stand alone making them less complicated and perhaps more efficient. I'm not familiar with the Tokyo, Moscow or Toronto systems but I've been on many others in the US and Europe and NY's is by far the most complex. Even with its shortfalls, I wouldn't trade it for any other system. |
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| (260232) | |
Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by stephenk on Tue May 30 02:58:57 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Wado MP73 on Mon May 29 23:37:32 2006. The JR Chuo Rapid Line runs 30tph, with 10-car trains. The JR Yamanote Line runs 24tph with 11-car trains. |
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| (260234) | |
Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by stephenk on Tue May 30 03:02:55 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Easy on Tue May 30 00:00:57 2006. I didn't realise the trains were so short on the Marounuchi and Ginza Lines, I always assumed the cars were 20m long.Some Tokyo Metro Lines have considerably longer trains. The Marounuchi, Ginza, and Oedo Lines are self contained, but all other lines have services extending beyond at least one of the metro termini onto commuter lines, and often longer trains. |
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| (260249) | |
Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue May 30 07:01:10 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by Red Line to Glenmont on Mon May 29 13:43:37 2006. This is just a theory, but from my experience with other European Subways, there often are just 5 50' cars on a line, so they pull into a station fast, decelerate really rapidly and then just take off, like Paris and Barcelona. In New York the trains are really long, and seem to slow down for stopping for a really long time in comparison. This could be the difference, that short light trains allow for closer spacing.Short trains do not mean higher braking and acceleration rates. Each car has its own motors and brakes. A 5 car train will have exactly the same horsepower/car as a 10 car train. Its power-to-weight ration is the same. It will have exactly the same acceleration. Ditto for braking. That said, the length of a train does affect maximum service levels. Let's examine this quantitatively. As stated above, the minimum allowable distance between trains does not change because the braking rates are the same. However, the distance between the fronts of the trains does because of longer trains. If the minimum allowable distance between trains be X feet, then the distance between the fronts would be 250+X for a 250 foot long train and 500+X for a 500 foot long train. That means that following train will have to travel 250 feet further to arrive at maximum service levels for longer trains. How long should that take? Suppose the trains are travelling at 30 mph. The extra time required to travel the extra 250 feet at that speed would be 6 seconds. So, given that 250 foot long trains could maintain 90 second headways (40 tph), then the minimum headway that could be expected for 500 foot long trains is 96 seconds or 37 tph. Of course, this is academic because Moscow train lengths are slightly longer than the 510 feet of the Lexington Ave expresses. Back to the drawing board? |
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| (260251) | |
Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Fytton on Tue May 30 07:06:38 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by stephenk on Mon May 29 16:13:35 2006. The prsetn highest peak-hour frequency anywhereon the Paris metro is, I believe, 36 tph (a train every 1 min 40 sec). |
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Tue May 30 08:41:33 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by stephenk on Tue May 30 02:58:57 2006. OK. I guess it just feels like more than 30tph when you stand at the Chuo Rapid platform of Shinjuku station during morning rush. |
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Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Tue May 30 08:52:35 2006, in response to Re: Lexington Avenue Line TPH, posted by stephenk on Tue May 30 03:02:55 2006. Aside from the three lines you mention, the Asakusa and Hibiya lines run 18m car trains. All other lines run 20m car trains now. Train length varies from 3 car (shuttle lines) to 10 car. |
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