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| (246542) | |
Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by Bernie Goetz on Thu Apr 27 14:30:38 2006 With slower trains since 1997,you would think that the TA would ELIMINATE timers,not ADD an abundance of them as they have.It is extrmely frustrating to have tracks and trans that ae MADE for speed.......and only be able to go 35-40MPH if you are lucky.Pacific Street to 36th street USED to be one of the great express runs in the whole system...now it is choked with timers that are unecessary!! THe Brighton Express was another great run in its time....and while they have not added any timers,the trains are to f*&%$#@ slow to really enjoy anything. does anyone realize that the NYC transit system is the SLOWEST in North America????????? |
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| (246552) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 27 14:54:15 2006, in response to Restore Full speed to the System, posted by Bernie Goetz on Thu Apr 27 14:30:38 2006. I remember, as a kid, thundering down CPW on an R-1/9 or R-10. If you were on the lower level plat of one of the local stations, and an R-10 "A" train boomed overhead, it sounded like you were being bombed. Today the ride is just tame...especially the silly timers between 86 and 81, and 72 and 59 going downtown.Selkirk said once that he remembers when he could just CHARGE into 59...those days are over! NYCT slowest in N.A.? Maybe not, but it's certainly in the bottom 5, especially when compared to its performance in the '70s... |
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| (246557) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Apr 27 15:00:31 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 27 14:54:15 2006. Among subway systems, only Boston is slower, based on my experiences. (Toronto is slow also, but that is because of stops every 6 blocks, and frequent congestion from 5-minute headways (at worst---often, its 2-4).) |
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| (246567) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by tydev417 on Thu Apr 27 15:17:05 2006, in response to Restore Full speed to the System, posted by Bernie Goetz on Thu Apr 27 14:30:38 2006. It's not a matter of slowing down the system just because, it's for our own safety. Ever notice that there haven't been any large-scale crashes or accidents since the Union Sqaure thing or Williamsburg Crash?These timers aren't uneccesary, they're obvioulsy there for something. You want the timers gone just so it could be the great express run that it was before? Or would you rather have a resonably slower ride to avoid fast-paced accidents because the train was doing 45-55 mph down the track? |
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| (246569) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Apr 27 15:21:32 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by tydev417 on Thu Apr 27 15:17:05 2006. Or would you rather have a resonably slower ride to avoid fast-paced accidents because the train was doing 45-55 mph down the track?I'd prefer the faster ride so I wouldn't have to keep handing the LIRR $5.00 offpeak so I can get to Manhattan in a reasonable time. |
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| (246579) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 27 15:27:34 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by tydev417 on Thu Apr 27 15:17:05 2006. The Union Square crash in 1991 was caused by a crack-addled T/O, and the Willy B crash in 1995 was the result of a sleeping T/O, and a signal system that was not able to handle "modern" subway cars.IMHO, the subway had a very low accident rate, given the number of trains and passenger-miles traveled in the '70s. This was before all the timers, wheel detectors, radar, and slower trains. Enlightened self-interest (usually) prevented accidents like the two above. BTW, the PATH system regularly runs at 55, and its accident rate per passenger mile is also very low. The LIRR, where speeds approach 80, has not had a major, major wreck (like Union Square) in quite a few years now. I think the lawyers, not actual unsafe conditions, had more to do with slowing the system down... |
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| (246589) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Apr 27 15:42:12 2006, in response to Restore Full speed to the System, posted by Bernie Goetz on Thu Apr 27 14:30:38 2006. Lawsuits Lawsuits Lawsuits. Theres your answer. I move the train but speed is not a factor in me wanting this job .I said it before and i will say it again you want to be a speed freak? DONT get a Job with the MTA working with trains you will be wasting your time hitting signals and running homeballs will only get you clipped as it did with a LOT of O/C pople who came down here with me beacuse they thought"the trains are too slow". |
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| (246594) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Apr 27 16:00:37 2006, in response to Restore Full speed to the System, posted by Bernie Goetz on Thu Apr 27 14:30:38 2006. If you think the NYC subway is slow---you haven't ridden the Boston subway. |
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| (246596) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Apr 27 16:05:49 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by tydev417 on Thu Apr 27 15:17:05 2006. On curves, I can understand why you would want to have timers. OTOH on a nice, straight stretch of express track, you should be allowed to do at least 45, if not 50.It's not rapid transit anymore, it's leisurely transit. You'll get there - eventually. |
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| (246597) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 27 16:06:05 2006, in response to Restore Full speed to the System, posted by Bernie Goetz on Thu Apr 27 14:30:38 2006. Driving's way slower. |
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| (246598) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Apr 27 16:06:36 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Apr 27 16:00:37 2006. As if pahking you cahr wasn't bad enough...:) |
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| (246599) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by tydev417 on Thu Apr 27 16:07:29 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Apr 27 16:05:49 2006. It's not rapid transit anymore, it's leisurely transit. You'll get there - eventually.lol so true! |
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| (246600) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Apr 27 16:08:42 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 27 14:54:15 2006. If you were on the n/b platform at 81st St. when an A train would rip past, you'd get an earful as well as a blaze of teal and white. Nothing like a train of R-10s going full tilt. Riding them on that stretch was even more fun. You had the feeling that nothing could stop that train. |
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| (246607) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by jrf2 on Thu Apr 27 16:27:01 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by tydev417 on Thu Apr 27 15:17:05 2006. Some of the timers really ARE unnecessary. Two examples spring to mind immediately. There are others.1 - The northbound Lex line halfway into Fulton Street. 2 - The southbound Broadway local leaving Courtland Street. |
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| (246608) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by Christopher Rivera on Thu Apr 27 16:31:20 2006, in response to Restore Full speed to the System, posted by Bernie Goetz on Thu Apr 27 14:30:38 2006. I Rather have the timers... than wheel detectors because if you're 0.001 above that speed limit... CHOW. And from what T/O's have told me... those speedometers on the trains aren't the best for Wheel Detectors. |
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| (246627) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu Apr 27 17:18:57 2006, in response to Restore Full speed to the System, posted by Bernie Goetz on Thu Apr 27 14:30:38 2006. Firstly, totally rebuild the entire signal system.Secondly, restore full field shunting, which was disabled after the WillyB wreck. Then you get the speed back. |
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| (246632) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by R4 Bryn Mawr LCL/R5 Paoli EXP on Thu Apr 27 17:25:23 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by tydev417 on Thu Apr 27 15:17:05 2006. Ever notice that there haven't been any large-scale crashes or accidents since the Union Sqaure thing or Williamsburg Crash?There's certainly no timer that would prevent a sleepy J motorman from derailing at Alabama Avenue. I could think of many others. And in turn, I can think of many that serve no purpose whatsoever, such as northbound leaving Jay St. These timers aren't uneccesary, they're obvioulsy there for something. Fallacious logic. Just because something was done doesn't mean it was the right thing to do. You want the timers gone just so it could be the great express run that it was before? It would be nice if the people in the five boroughs could get to Manhattan faster than the people in the far reaches of Suffolk County. Or would you rather have a resonably slower ride to avoid fast-paced accidents because the train was doing 45-55 mph down the track? Neither train was moving that fast in the Williamsburg Bridge wreck, and most accidents are not high-speed ones (switch run-throughs and low-speed collisions are more likely). |
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| (246636) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Apr 27 17:29:34 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by R4 Bryn Mawr LCL/R5 Paoli EXP on Thu Apr 27 17:25:23 2006. Alabama is full of 10 mile per hour one-shots, WELL BEFORE the curve in either direction. The most the train would make it if tripped would be one or two cars beginnig to negotiate the curve. |
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| (246644) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by R4 Bryn Mawr LCL/R5 Paoli EXP on Thu Apr 27 17:49:28 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Apr 27 17:29:34 2006. Going eastbound, I remember the homeball right before the switch clearing long before we got to it, and if the T/O had wrapped it, by the time we would've reached the next timer the train could have derailed. Going westbound I'm not as sure if that's possible.Van Siclen on the C also comes to mind - I don't even think the local tracks have timers over there. |
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| (246645) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by Market-Frankford on Thu Apr 27 17:49:44 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Apr 27 15:00:31 2006. Tight headways are GOOD. New York headways are unacceptable. Toronto headways reflect what is actually needed. Also, if you think Toronto stops are frequent, you have obviously never been anywhere north of Bloor Street, or at the very least, looked at their full system map. The Toronto subway is not slow. |
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| (246646) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Apr 27 17:49:52 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 27 15:27:34 2006. If you want fast trains, ride the PATH. The Hudson tubes, and the stretch between Harrison & JSQ are your quick spots. |
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| (246648) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by BRONX THRU EXPRESS on Thu Apr 27 17:51:23 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 27 15:27:34 2006. What you are saying makes perfect sense. |
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| (246650) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Apr 27 17:53:31 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by Market-Frankford on Thu Apr 27 17:49:44 2006. The ridership on the two main lines doesn't necessarily reflect ridership, because there is plenty of seating room off-peak. Even north of Bloor on the Yonge/Sheppard/Spadina, there isn't much speed until one gets north of St. Clair West. |
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| (246653) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by BRONX THRU EXPRESS on Thu Apr 27 17:58:17 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by tydev417 on Thu Apr 27 15:17:05 2006. As far as I know,the Union Square motorman's ability to perform was greatly affected by alcohol consumption.What the hell has that got to do with timers and other safety devices ? |
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| (246655) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by BRONX THRU EXPRESS on Thu Apr 27 18:06:54 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by R4 Bryn Mawr LCL/R5 Paoli EXP on Thu Apr 27 17:25:23 2006. A very excellent response indeed ! Yes,the majority of accidents ARE at slower speeds.What part of that is this guy not comprehending ? |
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| (246657) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by BRONX THRU EXPRESS on Thu Apr 27 18:09:47 2006, in response to Restore Full speed to the System, posted by Bernie Goetz on Thu Apr 27 14:30:38 2006. Agreed ! Let's bring back the good ol' days. |
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| (246670) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Thu Apr 27 18:23:10 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 27 16:06:05 2006. False. |
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| (246672) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Thu Apr 27 18:25:04 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Apr 27 15:00:31 2006. Boston is relatively fast - at least the heavy rail portions have a few semi-fast sections.The Green Line does NOT count. |
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| (246675) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Apr 27 18:31:47 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 27 16:06:05 2006. True |
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| (246677) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Apr 27 18:33:37 2006, in response to Restore Full speed to the System, posted by Bernie Goetz on Thu Apr 27 14:30:38 2006. Lets build the Myrtle-Fifth Avenue subway with 80 mph LONG express runs.This is 63rd Street. Next Stop Bedford Park Boulevard. ROAR |
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| (246690) | |
CBTC to the System |
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Posted by Subway Camper on Thu Apr 27 19:31:50 2006, in response to Restore Full speed to the System, posted by Bernie Goetz on Thu Apr 27 14:30:38 2006. You want TRENES RAPIDOS? CBTC is the answer. Eliminating T/Os and controlling trains with computers will keep the trains fast without any risk of danger. Just look at Philadelphia and Washington! |
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| (246692) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by tydev417 on Thu Apr 27 19:35:15 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by Market-Frankford on Thu Apr 27 17:49:44 2006. TTC's headways can sometimes rivals the headways of those on the Lex (not the crowds though): |
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| (246694) | |
Re: CBTC to the System |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Apr 27 19:38:04 2006, in response to CBTC to the System, posted by Subway Camper on Thu Apr 27 19:31:50 2006. Washington doesn't have CBTC. |
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| (246695) | |
Re: CBTC to the System |
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Posted by Subway Camper on Thu Apr 27 19:41:44 2006, in response to CBTC to the System, posted by Subway Camper on Thu Apr 27 19:31:50 2006. "Just look at Philadelphia and Washington!"When I say this, I am talking about trains being controlled by computers and not people. Add San Franciso to the list as well. I'm sure there are others. |
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| (246698) | |
Re: CBTC to the System |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Apr 27 19:43:18 2006, in response to Re: CBTC to the System, posted by Subway Camper on Thu Apr 27 19:41:44 2006. San Francisco does not have CBTC either. It doesn't matter what you mean because everyone else differentiates between CBTC and other technology. |
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| (246700) | |
Re: CBTC to the System |
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Posted by Subway Camper on Thu Apr 27 19:48:51 2006, in response to Re: CBTC to the System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Apr 27 19:43:18 2006. Well, the concept of trains controlled by computers is used by both CBTC and ATO. |
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| (246703) | |
Re: CBTC to the System |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Apr 27 19:59:03 2006, in response to Re: CBTC to the System, posted by Subway Camper on Thu Apr 27 19:48:51 2006. The differences between the two have been discussed ad-naseum here. |
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| (246704) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by American Pig on Thu Apr 27 20:02:17 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Apr 27 15:21:32 2006. And I would prefer the fast speed so that the myth that cars are slower going into Manhattan wouldn't be a myth anymore. |
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Re: CBTC to the System |
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Posted by Jackson Park B on Thu Apr 27 20:11:20 2006, in response to Re: CBTC to the System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Apr 27 19:59:03 2006. So CBTC does NOT imply some sort of radio based 'block occupancy' with lack of wayside aspects? Muni has that.BTW its nauseAm |
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Re: CBTC to the System |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Apr 27 20:20:54 2006, in response to CBTC to the System, posted by Subway Camper on Thu Apr 27 19:31:50 2006. Camper do some homework before you post on certain things ok? Worry about your metro in DC. Progress takes time with a system like this. |
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| (246712) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu Apr 27 20:21:34 2006, in response to Restore Full speed to the System, posted by Bernie Goetz on Thu Apr 27 14:30:38 2006. BTW, if you are really Bernie Goetz, don't count on being hired by the NYCT. They don't hire felons. |
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| (246721) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Apr 27 20:37:17 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu Apr 27 20:21:34 2006. That's cold Dan. ;o) |
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Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Apr 27 20:40:45 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by Christopher Rivera on Thu Apr 27 16:31:20 2006. You can never go wrong by going a little slower no chance of you getting tripped.No chance of you calling somebody at Jay Street and explaining your screw up to them. |
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| (246726) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu Apr 27 20:45:40 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by Railman718 on Thu Apr 27 20:37:17 2006. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe NYCT does not hire convicted felons for any position, do they? |
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| (246730) | |
Re: CBTC to the System |
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Posted by Subway Camper on Thu Apr 27 20:59:58 2006, in response to Re: CBTC to the System, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Apr 27 19:59:03 2006. Please understand that I am NOT TALKING ABOUT THE DIFFERENCES! I COULDN'T CARE LESS about the differences. The ONLY thing I care about is the fact that Philly, DC, SF, and several other systems, CBTC, ATO or whatever, are operated by COMPUTERS and can move very fast.And the ONE AND ONLY POINT that I am TRYING TO MAKE is that New York City subway trains can go FAST again if and when they are operated by computers, be it CBTC, ATO, or whatever. |
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| (246735) | |
Re: CBTC to the System |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Apr 27 21:07:10 2006, in response to Re: CBTC to the System, posted by Subway Camper on Thu Apr 27 20:59:58 2006. And the ONE AND ONLY POINT that I am TRYING TO MAKE is that New York City subway trains can go FAST again if and when they are operated by computers, be it CBTC, ATO, or whatever.Then say that. |
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| (246736) | |
Re: CBTC to the System |
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Posted by Subway Camper on Thu Apr 27 21:07:56 2006, in response to Re: CBTC to the System, posted by Railman718 on Thu Apr 27 20:20:54 2006. Railman, I am only speaking the truth.PATCO, SEPTA Market-Frankford El, WMATA Metrorail, and BART are all operated by computers. They often go REALLY FAST. DC Metro trains hit way over 70 mph between Bethesda and Friendship Heights heading inbound. Computer control = trenes rapidos |
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Re: CBTC to the System |
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Posted by mambomta on Thu Apr 27 21:08:31 2006, in response to Re: CBTC to the System, posted by Subway Camper on Thu Apr 27 20:59:58 2006. There is a big difference between ATO and CBTC. CBTC has to do with the signalling system. You can have CBTC with human operators. You can have ATO without using CBTC. They are different types of systems. So stop being an ass and start paying attention. |
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| (246739) | |
Re: CBTC to the System |
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Posted by mambomta on Thu Apr 27 21:09:54 2006, in response to Re: CBTC to the System, posted by Subway Camper on Thu Apr 27 21:07:56 2006. Computer control = trenes rapidosComputer control and fast trains are not synonymous. The fasted trains in the world are operated manually. |
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| (246740) | |
Re: Restore Full speed to the System |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Apr 27 21:10:13 2006, in response to Re: Restore Full speed to the System, posted by The Port of Authority on Thu Apr 27 18:25:04 2006. Boston is relatively fast - at least the heavy rail portions have a few semi-fast sections.The Riverside Branch seemed faster than the Blue and the Orange dude. |
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