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| Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? (244007) | |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by 9 Local on Sun Apr 23 19:57:39 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by WillD on Sat Apr 22 18:42:20 2006. From JFK to Manhattan:Airtrain + Subway = $7 Airtrain + LIRR (Weekends) = $8 Airtrain + LIRR (off peak) = $10.75 Airtrain + LIRR (peak) = $12 NYAS = $15 Taxi = $45 + tolls + tip No matter how you look at it, Airtrain is always the cheapest option, especially considering that parking at the airports is not cheap at all. Add the tolls from bridge/tunnel crossings, and the cost of driving is well over the cost of taking Airtrain. So it's not about cost as much as getting to the terminal without having to change trains, which you have to do even in Europe. It is amusing how people complain about JFK not being a "one seat ride" but no one really complains about Newark. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 23 19:59:53 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by 9 Local on Sun Apr 23 19:57:39 2006. No matter how you look at it, Airtrain is always the cheapest optionSubway to shuttle bus used to be cheaper. Of course, a subway all the way to the terminals would be cheapest. (BTW, subway to Q10 bus is cheaper still.) |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Sun Apr 23 20:18:48 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by 9 Local on Sun Apr 23 19:57:39 2006. Newark is an even worse offender than JFK (like an order of magnitude worse). There is absolutely no excuse for what was done there; the monorail should have been brought to Newark Penn, period. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 23 20:20:26 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 23 18:31:43 2006. False, Ron. Oren is right. You are wrong. And there are only about five people on SubChat who agree with you. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 23 20:33:48 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Apr 23 19:13:42 2006. "You need to stop ignoring the critical points of my argument. If you bothered to read my original post, you would see that when I was there, the facility was under construction. I made that fact clear."You also made it clear that you thought that was a red herring. Otherwise I expected a different choice of words. "I'm glad to hear that the finished product is seamless. I shall have to go and check it out sometime." Although the PA is anal about cameras (I disagree with the PA on that subject),I wish you could enjoy some picture taking. I know you would do it justice. "Also, the people who are going to be given a stack of brochures, told to stand out at some subway station, and hand them out for 4 hours are not managers. They are going to be entry level employees who don't make decisions going into service changes. Their job is to simply give out the information they are provided, and they are not trained to deal with everyone's complaints and specific problems." This is true. The decisions are made in management. The best the brochure holders can do is collect feedback from customers, absorb the criticism as best they can while continuing to smile, and send the feedback "upstairs." If you don't like my referring to you as a foamer, show me that you are not. If you don't like my pointing out that your knowledge base is inadequate, beef it up. If you don't like the fact that I treat you like a child sometimes, show me consistently grown-up posting. It's as simple as that. You do all those things and I guarantee you'll like the way I treat you. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 23 20:40:39 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by 9 Local on Sun Apr 23 19:57:39 2006. "It is amusing how people complain about JFK not being a "one seat ride" but no one really complains about Newark."They don't complain that much. Don't confuse the foamer nonsense that you read here with the real world. In Newark you have two different transit options involving rail: 1) NJT or Amtrak + AirTrain to your terminal 2) PATH or Newark City Subway to Penn Station, then NJT #62 bus to the airport The second is cheaper than the first but it is slower. I've done both. My one reservation about option 1 is that while rail service is frequent, you can be standing on the platform at the airport rail sytation waiting half an hour for your commuter train, and if amtrak comes by they obviously won't honor your NJT ticket. I don't remember whether an Amtrak ticket holder can get on an NJT train if the NJT train shows up first. I've never asked NJT that question. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Apr 23 20:46:03 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 23 20:33:48 2006. The burden isn't on me. I'm acting civil. You don't like what I think, but that doesn't allow you to behave a certain way.Most brochure holders are not going to communicate with the public in an engaging manner, and are unlikely to deliver all (or any) the feedback to management. For the most part, management already knows what is being said to the brochure holders, since it is almost identical to what people say in the public hearing process. I don't know how much work you've done in customer service type positions but keeping that smile isn't an easy thing to do. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Apr 23 20:49:50 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 23 20:40:39 2006. Ron,I was once asked if I would be willing to fly from EWR to IAD to save money. The person tried to convince me that it would be easy for me to get from the Upper East Side to EWR by taxi. When that failed, they tried enticing me with the train. When I informed that person of how many transfers that required (walk to subway, 2 subway trains to Penn Station, NJT, Airtrain) and how early I would need to leave so as to make it through security with time to spare, and the fact that I had to leave from the same train station to take the train to Washington (which is what I wanted to do in the first place), I won out. The transfers are a pain, take time, and don't do much to encourage people to take the train to the airport IMO. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 23 20:50:28 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 23 20:33:48 2006. If you don't like my referring to you as a foamer, show me that you are not. If you don't like my pointing out that your knowledge base is inadequate, beef it up. If you don't like the fact that I treat you like a child sometimes, show me consistently grown-up posting. It's as simple as that.You do all those things and I guarantee you'll like the way I treat you. False, Ron. Do unto others as you want them to do unto you. Oren is more than civil towards you, as such, you should NOT be treating him like you admit you are. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 23 21:03:22 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Apr 23 20:49:50 2006. For Newark to the Upper East Side, I agree with you. The pain is not AirTrain to commuter rail; you'd have to do that at many airports that have multiple concourses (Atlanta, JFK, EWR, etc.)But then you have a largely non-ADA subway to deal with (Penn is now ADA with regard to subway, but it did not used to be until very recently). And what if your subway train gets held up at a red signal somewhere, or starts crawling because there's a slowpoke in front of it? Your route was not very conducive to using rail. Kennedy to any of the large CBDs, no problem. EWR to Newark or the Lower Manhattan EBD, no problem, and to the Upper West side, or Queens, less of a problem because you've got the IRT and A/E trains. The more ADA stations open, the better. And with a lot of bags (where you have both hands full), rail is always less comfuy than a car. That's true. Plus, EWR Rail has fewer trains per hour serving it than Jamaica station does. I have used EWR to save money in the past. What I have discovered recently is that the price differential between EWR and LGA or JFK has narrowed (10 years agoI got big discounts going to EWR). Have you found that to be true, or not? |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 23 21:08:07 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Apr 23 20:46:03 2006. "Most brochure holders are not going to communicate with the public in an engaging manner, and are unlikely to deliver all (or any) the feedback to management."That is management's fault, not the workers. Management has to reward workers for collecting intelligence. "For the most part, management already knows what is being said to the brochure holders, since it is almost identical to what people say in the public hearing process." Sometimes that's true; often it's only partly true. My first job was in a bank. Your statement about how hard it is to consistently smile is very, very true. It's amazing the kind of crap you take that has nothing to do with you - you're just the most convenient object they can throw tomatoes at. And never mind whether you have a stomachache, or your mother went to the hospital two days ago. Customer service is hard. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Apr 23 21:10:15 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 23 21:03:22 2006. I almost never fly in and out of New York, I value my time too much. The exception to that is when I am flying through New York to make a connection, or if I need to get from certain places to the city in time for Shabbos and there is no other way to get there. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 23 21:11:27 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Apr 23 21:10:15 2006. I agree with you 100%. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Apr 23 21:13:11 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 23 21:08:07 2006. Management isn't going to train someone for that type of customer service, it simply isn't practical. At most TAs, they don't have the manpower to do an extensive pre service change customer outreach, and if they find that manpower, most likely those people will be trained for other jobs. I will say that it is not ideal, but management can't cover that many bases in its training just to provide superb customer service for those two weeks. They simply have to set priorities and that ranks low. Also, many of these people won't help the image of the TA by talking to the employees and may even hurt it. In some ways, not training them how to answer questions may be better. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 23 21:36:24 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Apr 23 21:13:11 2006. Customer service isn't something you turn on and off for two weeks at a time. You have to inculcate it into people, teach them what your transit agency's values are and how that translates into day to day customer contact. MTA actually does a pretty decent job of that, as evidenced by the kind of service I've witnessed on trains and buses. I've seen some outstanding service, too, and had the pleasure of turning in "Apple Award" nominations and letters to management about those people - and I got answers back.I agree with you that there are limits to what can be done pre-change. Website notices, signs in the stations and on buses, brrochures on the bus or at the train station and notices tacked up on the booths or over the farecard vending machines. That, and try to get the media to announce really important changes. New York has the NY1 Road and Rail Report and most news stations cover "traffic and transit." However that may not be the case in other cities. I don't know. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Apr 23 21:43:49 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 23 21:36:24 2006. Customer service isn't something you turn on and off for two weeks at a time.You put people who weren't hired to do customer service into such a position for just two weeks. Seriously, how much training are you going to give them? I'd give them about enough to get by, but not much more than that. It probably isn't worth doing more in the long run. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 23 21:47:16 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Apr 23 21:43:49 2006. "You put people who weren't hired to do customer service into such a position for just two weeks"In a customer service organization, all employees should and can be inculcated with your service values. This need not be expensive and always rewards the organization many times over. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Apr 23 21:53:18 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 23 18:31:43 2006. If you want respect for your knowledge and ability to reason, you'll have to earn it. You're a good photographer who otherwise is an ignorant immature foamer. That's a fact. The only way to get around that is for you to educate yourself and grow up.Oren's posts are some of the most mature ones I've seen on this forum. He is in no way an "ignorant immature foamer." |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Apr 23 21:57:15 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 23 21:47:16 2006. Easier said than done. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 23 21:57:23 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Apr 23 21:53:18 2006. We can keep telling Ron that, as we've been doing for months/years, but until more SubChatters join us, Ron will continue to ignore us. Instead, why don't we just ignore Ron? Totally cut him off until he changes his ways? |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 23 22:06:01 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Apr 23 21:53:18 2006. I'm sorry but IU beg to differ. You don't kknow enough to be able to tell the difference. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 23 22:07:32 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Apr 23 21:57:15 2006. Very trite on your part, and with success being already emonstrated in many organizations, WMATA would have no legitimate excuse not to do it. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 23 22:15:56 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 23 22:06:01 2006. False. The truth is clear to almost everyone but you. Shame on you. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Apr 23 22:58:58 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 23 22:06:01 2006. I can most certainly tell the difference. You don't know enough about me to be able to make a statement like that. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Apr 23 23:13:05 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Apr 23 22:58:58 2006. Well he sure thinks he does! He thinks he knows a lot about a lot of us! |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 24 01:30:21 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Apr 23 22:58:58 2006. Yes, I do. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 24 10:51:14 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Apr 22 18:55:40 2006. Oh my God, another AirTrain thread. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by D to E To Jamaica on Mon Apr 24 11:13:58 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by David of Broadway on Sat Apr 22 22:13:35 2006. It's been quite well established that riders find transfers undesirable, especially if they involve walking from one platform to another. (Most potential and actual AirTrain users already have to transfer to reach the A, E, J/Z, or LIRR; the transfer to AirTrain is a second.) You haven't been doing your homework.People will put up with transfers if the wait (5 minutes or less) isn't long. Most people do it when they take LIRR and have to transfer at Jamaica. Or take the subway going into Manhattan and don't give it a second thought. Like sombody else said, it's the politicians that are trying to brainwash the masses with this one seat bull. Airtrain is really meant for those who are not schlepping a boatload of luggage to the airport. That's what cabs are for. Recently I had to make several trips between NY and Fairfax VA which consisted of taking A cab to Vienna sta., Orange line to Metro Center (3minute wait), red line to Union sta.(2minute wait),Acela to Penn Sta(15min wait), E train to Parsons-Archer(3min wait), and Q5 home (no wait) 6 hr trip, Four transfers, 23 minutes waiting time. While I can't imangine anyone doing this once rather than the eight times I did (4 rt's) surely someone with 2 pieces of carry-on luggage can make ONE transfer and not bitch about it. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 24 11:22:44 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by David of Broadway on Sat Apr 22 22:13:35 2006. "It's been quite well established that riders find transfers undesirable, especially if they involve walking from one platform to another."Not applicable to the airport. Unless you can drop the person off right at the airplane, transfers are a given. Your information relates to day-to-day commuting, not airport travel. That comes from your railfanning and lack of interest in learning anything else. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Mon Apr 24 11:45:49 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Apr 22 18:55:40 2006. You are way off base Ron.Philadelphia's SEPTA R1 goes directly to nearly all airport terminals in Philadelphia Internationl Airport. Though a premimum fare is charged (Zone 5), it is a one seat ride from Center City and runs every 30 minutes from 4:30 AM to 12:30 AM. Chicago's CTA has direct subway service to both area airports. Your assumption about the O'hare transfer is tedious and requires long walking may be only half true but there IS a free monorail system at O'Hare that will take you to all terminals. The fact that CTA built an extension to the existing Blue line to O'Hare some 25 years ago, does demostrate cooperation between the entities involved (CTA and whoever runs the airports), despite it is nearly 40 minutes from the Loop in Downtown and the Blue line runs entirely underground in Downtown Chicago. D.C. has direct Metro service to both airports, and that is no problem. The biggest problem with Airtrain is A) The monopolisticly high fare charged by the Port Authority and B) The inability to offer direct one seat access to Manhattan. One seat access would be been accomplished if the PA and MTA were to budge on extending a loop via. the A train, at the possible cost of closing down the Rockaway Park branch. That would have been plotted 30 years ago but it is a waste of resources, given the SAS is much higher priority now. People with heavy luggages, may not want to pay a premimum for both LIRR and Airtrain service, given it will still take an average of 45-60 minutes travel time. The main customer base that benefited from Airtrain are the people that actually work inside the airport's grounds, not the travellers. For $40 every 30 days is a bargain compared with $76 for the same period on riding the Q10 bus. Frankly, given costs and time allocations aside, the E/F to Union Turnpike for the Q10 is only a few minutes longer than the LIRR to Jamaica for the Airtrain, or even the A to Howard Beach, at a fraction of the cost. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 24 11:55:24 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by D to E To Jamaica on Mon Apr 24 11:13:58 2006. Airtrain is really meant for those who are not schlepping a boatload of luggage to the airport. That's what cabs are for.It's nowhere near that simple. Other considerations are cost and time. There are plenty of people with little luggage that time cabs because they value their time more and there are plenty of people with a lot of luggage who take mass transit because they value their money more. And a third consideration is convenience, of which "transfers" play a big role. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 24 11:58:58 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 24 11:22:44 2006. Not applicable to the airport. Unless you can drop the person off right at the airplane, transfers are a given. Your information relates to day-to-day commuting, not airport travel.False. Everyone who goes to the airport experiences the same "transfers" once they pass through the doors of the terminal. David is speaking of the transfers that take place BEFORE arriving at the terminal. Those can vary greatly. And they play a big role in people's modal choice. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 24 12:00:06 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 24 11:58:58 2006. Yes, but neither of the transfers at either Howard Beach or Jamaica are all that hard to do. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 24 12:05:08 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 24 12:00:06 2006. That is subjective. The OBJECTIVE data is simply the number of transfers. You must transfer to the AirTrain and then transfer from the AirTrain to the terminal. Some of the AirTrain stations do not lead directly to the terminal like Terminal 4's station. That is two transfers more than arriving at the terminal building by car/taxi, not including all the transfers needed to get to AirTrain in the first place. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Apr 24 12:07:08 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Sun Apr 23 20:18:48 2006. Again, both AirTRAINS were made with the idea that its users don't vote in local elections. Those who work at the airport take the 62, where many of them ride to and from Newark Penn and Newark Liberty for a discount.Both are PFCs not designated as such. Those traveling take the train, those who WORK at the airport take the bus (even though the travel times are pretty much a wash). |
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Attn Ron: Modal Choice (Was: Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?) |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 24 12:12:54 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Apr 22 18:55:40 2006. The "one seat ride" is a nonsense term used by foamers and politicians. Riders couldn't give a shit.Since you obviously have no background in transportation planning, here is a link to a Google search that should provide some interesting reading for you on the topic of modal choice and transfers. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=modal+choice+transfers |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Apr 24 12:15:47 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Apr 22 18:55:40 2006. Everyone wants a one-seat ride. If they can't get it (most often outside of the city), then said people will DRIVE to a place where a one-seat ride is available, or just plain drive to work, clogging the roads further. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Apr 24 12:21:19 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Mon Apr 24 11:45:49 2006. However, those who work inside the airport grounds are still better off taking the bus routes to the airport, because they must use BOTH an AirTRAIN MetroCard AND pay a fare for the subway. Assuming that the card is used for 21 days a month to get to and from work (a rather reasonable assumption), and a pay-per-ride at that, it would cost one about 90 dollars (including all discounts) to get to and from work with both cards ($40 monthly AirTRAIN pass, $50 for bus and subway fare), negating the savings. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Mon Apr 24 12:26:53 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Apr 24 12:21:19 2006. Not if they live in Jamaica, within walking distance to Airtrain.And Jamaica is a fairly high density neighborhood, in terms of population. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Mon Apr 24 13:30:13 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Mon Apr 24 11:45:49 2006. "D.C. has direct Metro service to both airports, and that is no problem."Incorrect. Metro directly serves Reagan National only. Metro to Dulles is just beginning the planning stages and Metro to BWI is a dream that may not be done in our lifetimes. There's currently a bus conection to BWI (B30 route), but that's not rail. |
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Re: Forget the JFK Express AND the A train |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 24 13:37:51 2006, in response to Re: Forget the JFK Express AND the A train, posted by Market-Frankford on Sun Apr 23 18:44:25 2006. Nope. The J/Z between Chambers St and Sutphin is faster than the E between Chambers and Sutphin.I can't comment on the A between Chambers and Howard Beach though, as I don't know. |
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Re: Forget the JFK Express AND the A train |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 24 13:41:07 2006, in response to Re: Forget the JFK Express AND the A train, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 23 11:49:08 2006. If they rank strictly by price, though, staying on the A is the way to go, since you trade time for money.Agreed. If my time is valuable, that's exactly what I would do as opposed to truging all the way to Howard Beach on the subway, if passing Penn Station anyway. "And then there are the people who have somehow discovered the barely publicized Q10 and prefer to use it over the AirTrain option. " Always a few schlubs everywhere... Agreed. I can't imagine anyone schleping around luggage even remotely wanting to take the A all the way to Lefferts, then schleping onto a stupid slow bus, for what, to save maybe $10? When already going through the cost of airline and travel expenses anyway? No way in hell. |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 24 13:44:13 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by streetcarman1 on Sun Apr 23 11:17:29 2006. The train did not stop in poor areas along the way to the city, so it became an "exclusive train" for them.The only station the JFK express should have perhaps served was Broadway-East New York, however, I can understand them not doing it either, as by that point, you are already close to Howard beach on the A/C, which ran more often anyway, so it wasn't a big loss not stopping there anyway. |
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| (245421) | |
Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 24 18:27:12 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 24 12:00:06 2006. All airpports involve transfers, even if it's from your car to the curb and into the terminal. Passengers headed for the airport know they are going to schlep luggage. The only question is how easy you make it, and a good transfer is far better than a long hike.Some airports function OK with one subway stop. Reagan is nicely arranged for that. La Guardia is too, though the walk to some gates is a pretty healthy hike. Midway is nicely arranged. But EWR, JFK, Hartsfield, McCarron, Tampa, Denver simply cannot function without circulators. The distances involved are too large. Even O'Hare, while "cemntralized" involves long hikes to get to many gates. However, I'm certainly not going to say that CTA did wrong by their O'Hare line. I see it as a positive and welcome development, as is the Midway line. But not transferring to a circulator to get to the farther gates is a lot more work than using a circulator. So in NYC, extending the circulator to meet both multiple subways and commuter rail was the single smartest thing the PA could do. The transfer is going to happen anyway, no matter what, and the PA's transfers are very good. It's comical how a few rabid foamers like Brian and David just rail (pun intended) against this.But Subchat is a safe place to do it, a place where they can rant but can't screw up anything for passengers...:0) |
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Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 24 18:53:25 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 24 18:27:12 2006. All airpports involve transfers, even if it's from your car to the curb and into the terminal.It is a shame you can't see the difference between getting out of a cab and immediately handing your bags over to the curbside check-in and changing from multiple subway lines or the LIRR to AirTrain and then having to exit AirTrain and walk a good distance to the curbside check in. Even O'Hare, while "cemntralized" involves long hikes to get to many gates. However, I'm certainly not going to say that CTA did wrong by their O'Hare line. I see it as a positive and welcome development, as is the Midway line. But not transferring to a circulator to get to the farther gates is a lot more work than using a circulator. Huh? At O'Hare, the subway line goes right to main terminal building. A circulator is irrelevant. There instead should be moving sidewalks since you stay within one building to reach all the gates. If you need to go to one of the smaller side terminals or the rental car lots, then you get on the circulator, which is free. So in NYC, extending the circulator to meet both multiple subways and commuter rail was the single smartest thing the PA could do. False, the single smartest thing the PA could have done was allowed the subway to come right to the terminals and loop around, along with building indoor, flat corridors, with moving sidewalks if need be, from the stations to the departure levels of the terminals. The transfer is going to happen anyway, no matter what, and the PA's transfers are very good. The transfer of luggage onto the curb happens every time, no matter how you get to the airport. The PA introduced extra transfers by making you transfer from the subway and LIRR to AirTrain, and then from AirTrain to street level. Then you make the final transfer of lifting your bags up on to the curb, just like taxi riders. Your statement that "the transfer is going to happen anyway" makes no sense. Lets add up some transfers: To JFK via taxi: -transfer from taxi directly to curb TOTAL = 1 To JFK via subway and old shuttle bus -transfer from subway to low floor shuttle bus -transfer from low floor shuttle bus directly to curb TOTAL = 2 or more (depending on number of subway lines taken) To JFK via subway and AirTrain -transfer from subway to AirTrain -transfer from AirTrain to street level -transfer from station street level to curb (walk from station street level over to curb, outdoors and crossing traffic) TOTAL = 3 or more (depending on number of subway lines taken) To JFK via subway and LIRR and AirTrain -transfer from subway to LIRR -transfer from LIRR to AirTrain -transfer from AirTrain to street level -transfer from station street level to curb (walk from station street level over to curb, outdoors and crossing traffic) TOTAL = 4 or more (depending on number of subway lines taken) |
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| (245449) | |
Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done? |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Apr 24 19:04:01 2006, in response to Re: Bring the JFK Express back...can it be done?, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 24 18:27:12 2006. Some airports function OK with one subway stop. Reagan is nicely arranged for that. La Guardia is too, though the walk to some gates is a pretty healthy hike. Midway is nicely arranged.There is no Reagan Airport. Also, since when does LaGuardia have a subway stop? But EWR, JFK, Hartsfield, McCarron, Tampa, Denver simply cannot function without circulators. The distances involved are too large. Even O'Hare, while "cemntralized" involves long hikes to get to many gates. However, I'm certainly not going to say that CTA did wrong by their O'Hare line. I see it as a positive and welcome development, as is the Midway line. But not transferring to a circulator to get to the farther gates is a lot more work than using a circulator. The circulators involved at some of those airports are not optional, they are required for all passengers. If I want to take a plane out of Denver or Atlanta, I had better be ready to take the people mover to my gate, or else I'm not flying anywhere. On the other hand, how many transfers I make prior to reaching the check-in counter (or security checkpoint if I use online checkin) is totally in my control. If cost is not an issue, I am very likely to just get in a cab and take that to the airport because of the number of transfers, vehicle changes, and dragging luggage around that public transit can potentially involve. One-seat rides are important, Ron. You disagree, but in your world view, that means everyone else must be wrong. That is simply not the case. It's comical how a few rabid foamers like Brian and David just rail (pun intended) against this.But Subchat is a safe place to do it, a place where they can rant but can't screw up anything for passengers...:0) You still call yourself mature? I think I'd rather have them heading up operations planning for the MTA as opposed to having you do it. |
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Re: Forget the JFK Express AND the A train |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 24 19:10:11 2006, in response to Re: Forget the JFK Express AND the A train, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 24 13:37:51 2006. Not anymore. I'd choose the E for speed, even over skip stops. The timers at Crescent and on the bridge have KILLED the whole line. |
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Re: Forget the JFK Express AND the A train |
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Posted by Market-Frankford on Mon Apr 24 19:19:35 2006, in response to Re: Forget the JFK Express AND the A train, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 24 13:37:51 2006. CHAMBERS! That gives the (J) an advantage. I'm talking like... Midtown. The (E) is a lot faster.Compare the (E) from Queens Plaza to the (J) from Myrtle Avenue. The (J) has an obvious advantage. Still, the (E) takes 24 minutes, while the (J) takes 32. |
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| (245462) | |
Re: Forget the JFK Express AND the A train |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 24 19:29:54 2006, in response to Re: Forget the JFK Express AND the A train, posted by Market-Frankford on Mon Apr 24 19:19:35 2006. The J beats the E, even to the financial district. |
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Re: Forget the JFK Express AND the A train |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 24 19:30:24 2006, in response to Re: Forget the JFK Express AND the A train, posted by Market-Frankford on Mon Apr 24 19:19:35 2006. The E beats the J, even to the financial district. |
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