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The LIRR President Speaks |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Apr 21 23:55:11 2006 I just got back from a seminar in given by the LIRR president, James Dermody. He spoke a little about the past, the present and the future of the LIRR.After the seminar, he also took questions from the audience, and answered them to the best of his knowledge. Here's some of the information that was covered: Some of the projects include future expansion,m including the East side access, the third track on the mainline, electrification expansion, the fleet replacement, etc, etc. Here's some of the highlights: -They are actively persuing the third track on the mainline. Many upgrades are planned for the corridor between Hicksville and Queens Village. This includes station improvements, a third track, as well as complete grade crossing elimination in that corridor. -In the future, they are in fact looking at double tracking the Ronkonkoma Branch, but this is just in the early stages. -The new yard, and further electrification of the Port Jefferson branch to that yard HAS BEEN SCRAPPED. they lost all the battles involved with NIMBY's and the communities, and can not place a yard at any of the locations they planned. That's over for now. -They are at COMPLETE capacity at Ronkonkoma yard, and are looking to build an additional yard, somewhere east of Ronkonkoma. They are still not settled at a location, but have a few locations as prospects. They own a very large parcel of land in Manorville that could be used, however, it is in the middle of the Pine barren district, and the EIS is quite high. They are looking to perhaps trade off land with Suffolk county in a land swap deal. They are not ruling out ANY location between Riverhead and Yaphank. But he did say that it's almost a given that electrification will continue at least to Yaphank. Their parking lot facilities at Ronkonkoma are reaching their final stages. they will be paving the dirt lot, but that's where it will end. They are at capacity at Ronkonkoma. They have been studying ridership patterns, and have gathhered that many people ONLY come to Ronkonkoma because of the service, and they come from other places. Their studies have shown that they would also come to Yaphank when it becomes the terminal. They have studied that Ronkonkoma is popular because of the access from major roads, and have found that Yaphank has similar access, and people would use it. So it can be assumed that normal service will come to Yaphank, it's inevidable because of the Ronkonkoma dilema. They have not ruled out a yard and terminal in other locations either yet, and anything between Riverhead and Ronkomnkoma is open for debate. -That being said, he did rule out just about completely (at least at this time), any increase in diesel service east of ronkonkoma. Any increase in service would come in the form of electrification. -There will be another increase in dual mode service by the fall. With the march schedules, they have added a new Speonk dual mode train. Currently there are twoi or three on the port Jefferson line, two on the SPeonk runs, and one on the Oyster Bay line. They are looking to add another by fall. While he has said it will "probably" be put into service on the Speonk line, Oyster Bay has not been ruled out. They only have 22 dual mode locomotives, because out of the 23 they had, one was completely lost to fire. -They are EXTREMELY happy with the performance of the M7's. They have surpased all expectations. They had been expected to run at least 100,000 miles between breakdowns, and have consistintly exceeded that by landslides. Their are currently 800 and change M7's in service, 172 M3's, and 80-something M1's left. The M1's are expected to be completely gone in the near future. The M3's will be upgraded, and they have an option for more equipment. The diesel fleet has not been as promising, however, over the past few years they have become more and more reliable as the DM/DE30's are rebuilt. They are performing better than ever, although still under where they should have. -ON the weekend of May 7th, the old position signals from the PRR will be decomissioned, and the new colored light signal system will come into effect. PD tower will cease to exisit, and the new signaling system will come into effect. PD will completely be phased out by June. The bad news is that unless someone comes in to want it, PD TOWER IN PATCHOUGE WILL BE KNOCKED DOWN. They do not want it. they have talked to a historical group in Bethpage, and also with Patchogue Village, but as of now, it is on the endagered species list, and is set to be demolished. They will not knock it down immediately, however, within days, the stairways will be ripped off the tower to avoid tresspass. this does not look good for the tower. it's days appear to be numbered. -They will be testing four quadrant gates somewhere between patchogue and Speonk as a pilot test. -Jay, Valley, and Dunton towers will be consolidated. East side access is progressing nicely, and the LIRR will have it's own station 100 feeet below the current one. -The LIRR will not be using any of the new Penn Station Farley building facilities. -Jamaica station's renovation will be completed in two weeks. -With the march schedule Huntington has begun half hourly service on the weekends, and Ronkonkoma trains run express because of this on the mainline. He touched on photography, and mentioned that it was perfectly legal TO TAKE PHOTOS ON MTA PROPERTY AND NO ONE SHOULD BOTHER YOU. This is true from all public areas,and as long as you stay in public areas, photography is completely legal. He was very percise about it. This came out of his mouth. Much more was covered, but that's what I remenber for now,m andn the highlights. he was a really down to earth guy. He presented a historical slideshow from the beginning of the LIRR to the present, decade by decade at the beginning of the presentation, including old photos and movies. |
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Posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Sat Apr 22 00:15:25 2006, in response to The LIRR President Speaks, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Apr 21 23:55:11 2006. Interesting stuff...-ON the weekend of May 7th, the old position signals from the PRR will be decomissioned, and the new colored light signal system will come into effect Is that color light system supposed to be going up throughout the system, or just at Patchogue? Is there anywhere else in the system that has CPLs? -Jay, Valley, and Dunton towers will be consolidated. Huh? You sure he didn't say Jay, Hall, and Dunton? Or Jay, Hall, and Valley? I coulda sworn Hall comes somewhere in between those three, and it wouldn't make any sense to have three towers at nonconsecutive interlockings consolidated into one, with a gap in between... Did anyone ask about fantrips/excursions? And was this a public meeting? |
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Posted by tracksionmotor on Sat Apr 22 00:43:12 2006, in response to The LIRR President Speaks, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Apr 21 23:55:11 2006. Thank you for the post. The Arch Street crew has something to be proud of. I hope the MNCR president likes the M7s too. RRCI Peter |
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Re: The LIRR President Speaks |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Sat Apr 22 01:03:23 2006, in response to The LIRR President Speaks, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Apr 21 23:55:11 2006. The speed of spread of the M-7's on the LIRR has been absolutely horrifying. Where the fuck did they get all this money? Isn't the state facing large budget deficits? Shoudln't they have cut capital expendature? With only the 130 M-3's the LIRR is no longer worth riding. Honestly, I've been on the C-3's and its a waste of money, you can't see squat. At least most of the system still has PRR PL's, but you need a car to access them.And they have been working to bring JAY, HALL and DUNTON into a unified conputerized interlocking system with three remote stations with supervisory dispatch. From the article I read the towers will still be open, just more connected and with less staff. |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sat Apr 22 01:14:09 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by Jersey Mike on Sat Apr 22 01:03:23 2006. The speed of spread of the M-7's on the LIRR has been absolutely horrifying. Where the fuck did they get all this money? Isn't the state facing large budget deficits? Shoudln't they have cut capital expendature? With only the 130 M-3's the LIRR is no longer worth riding. Honestly, I've been on the C-3's and its a waste of money, you can't see squat. At least most of the system still has PRR PL's, but you need a car to access them.Ok, what you're after is heritage, what they're after is money and for the people, not what the railfans want. The M7s are doing fine, why do you have it in your head that someting's wrong with them? Obviously they had the money or they wouldn't have 1000+ of them! |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Apr 22 01:23:52 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by tydev417 on Sat Apr 22 01:14:09 2006. The M7s are doing fine, why do you have it in your head that someting's wrong with them?They're a waste. The M1s were still in working order and could have probably carried on for another 10 years. The longer the MTA keeps its rolling stock around the more money they have for capital expansion programs. To make matters worse the cars are overweight and thus a drain on the MTA's operating finances. On no basis do the M7s make sense. |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sat Apr 22 01:30:26 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by WillD on Sat Apr 22 01:23:52 2006. WillD, please stop. They're not waste, just accept the fact that the M7s are replacing the M1s. Why do you keep rambling on about it when it's already happening? You're including other stuff like overweight and finances that have nothing to do with it, or aren't a problem. |
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Posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Sat Apr 22 02:08:14 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by tydev417 on Sat Apr 22 01:30:26 2006. Millions of dollars aren't a problem? |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sat Apr 22 02:16:09 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Sat Apr 22 02:08:14 2006. Well it wasn't a problem for them and it isn't a problem for us. I could see if they raised the fare sharply because of the purchase but it was nothing like that. They're even adding more services, not cutting, adding. |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Sat Apr 22 02:26:34 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by tydev417 on Sat Apr 22 02:16:09 2006. They went into more debt so that commuters could get some shiney new cars. Gas is over $3 a gallon. Commuters don't have a choice any more. There's no need to plush things up.Oh, BTW whenever I ride an M<6 there are always ppl around the front window looking out. Its not just a railfan thing, its a hewman thing. |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sat Apr 22 02:37:43 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by Jersey Mike on Sat Apr 22 02:26:34 2006. The M6s aren't going anywhere for awhile though.I'm telling you guys, you are worrying about stuff that shouldn't be worried about or aren't a big deal. Let's say one day the LIRR decided, we're going to bring the MP54s back but it would cost millions to have a whole fleet of them and to get them up to today's standards, you guys would not have a problem with it at all, and would probably be tracking their every move as the are delivered in, be the first person on the first train out, and would never complain about the stuff you are complaining about now. But becuase it's the shiny, new M7s, ohhhh, they suck, they're a waste of money/they cost too much, they're uncomfortable, they're too heavy, they don't have a railfan window, they're too slow, they're replacing the older trains that are supposefly doing fine, etc., etc., etc. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Apr 22 03:38:00 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by Jersey Mike on Sat Apr 22 01:03:23 2006. The M7's have exceeded goals of miles between breakdown. I forgot what the exact figure was, but the M1's miles between breakdowns was horrifying. It was worse than a small fraction of the M7's. Yes it was quick. there are only 80 somethng left.The M3's miles between breakdowns was not close to the M7's either, however, it was a lot better than the M1's. |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Apr 22 08:02:12 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Apr 22 03:38:00 2006. On MNCR the M-7's get MDBF of 163 600 milesThe M1's were only MDBF of 33 000 |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Apr 22 08:12:36 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Apr 22 08:02:12 2006. I unfortunately don't remember what the president sad exactly, but their GOALS were 100,000 milesw MDBF, and the actual number was WELL in excess of that. They are EXTREMELY happy with their performance.The M1's MDBF were about 26,000 miles I think I remember him saying (give or take). They can't wait to get rid of the rest of them. The M3's are a little be=it better, but they will be overhauled a little bit, they are not leaving yet. Buyt every last one of the last 80-something M1's will be off LIRR property shortly, and they can't wait. |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Apr 22 08:43:06 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by tydev417 on Sat Apr 22 02:37:43 2006. ["Let's say one day the LIRR decided, we're going to bring the MP54s back but it would cost millions to have a whole fleet of them and to get them up to today's standards, you guys would not have a problem with it at all, and would probably be tracking their every move as the are delivered in, be the first person on the first train out, and would never complain about the stuff you are complaining about now."]Now you know damn well the MP54's had full length cabs with no rail fan window. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Apr 22 09:29:19 2006, in response to The LIRR President Speaks, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Apr 21 23:55:11 2006. "-They are actively persuing the third track on the mainline. Many upgrades are planned for the corridor between Hicksville and Queens Village. This includes station improvements, a third track, as well as complete grade crossing elimination in that corridor."HAHA! Take that NIMBYs! I'll miss having the grade crossings around, but with so many trains, they will start posing a hazzard as people will be more and more tempted to go around them. I hope they bring the MAS up there. Good to see they are looking into double tracking the Ronkonkoma. It is sorely needed. "They have been studying ridership patterns, and have gathhered that many people ONLY come to Ronkonkoma because of the service, and they come from other places." They had to do a study to figure that out? I really hope the electrification goes to Riverhead. I don't see the point in just ending it at Manorville or Yaphank. BTW, there is no way in hell they will have a yard built on that property in Manorville, and fortunately, they know it and are looking for another location. Hopefully that added DM will go to the OB line. They only have one now while other lines have 2 or 3. Here would have been an intereting idea. After May 26th, they have a direct from NYP to Montauk every Friday night. On Monday mornings, either extend that 6:21 out of Speonk to be a 5:11 out of Montauk or see if it's possible to make the 5:39 from Montauk an NYP train(I'd say the 5:39 b/c it also makes Hicksville and Mineola). Or maybe, if they were willing to accept the need for more service to east of Ronkonkoma(and I don't mean just to Riverhead), they could do the same kind of thing Fridays/Mondays for the Greenport line. Make the 5:41 into a DM and send it all the way to Greenport instead of having the transfer at Ronkonkoma. Then, on Monday's, flip the 6:56 and 7:04 so the 6:56 is the express. Then just have that express run covered by the train comming from Greenport(5:30 out of Greenport). All that's just a dream I know, but it probably would be used fairly well. About PD tower. MAY 8TH is the official LAST DAY of operation for PD TOWER. I'm told that the tower is too far gone and preservation efforts have been abandonned b/c of the physical shape of the tower. I'm told it will be taken down 3 weeks after it is closed. "Jay, Valley, and Dunton towers will be consolidated. " If this is true, then Chris is going to have to move AGAIN. First PD, then Dunton. I've got one thing to say...Moo Moo "-With the march schedule Huntington has begun half hourly service on the weekends, and Ronkonkoma trains run express because of this on the mainline." ARGH! This has totally screwed me over. Before I had a shot of making the bus because it always takes 3 or 4 minutes to get to the other side of the tracks in Mineola. Now though, I have zero chance of getting it b/c I have to switch in Hicksville. They really should've kept Mineola as a stop on the express. I've heard complaints from LOTS of people about the change. Glad he made a public announcement about photography being legal. And I think it's pretty cool he showed a slideshow about the history of the LIRR. |
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Posted by Booge on Sat Apr 22 09:49:00 2006, in response to The LIRR President Speaks, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Apr 21 23:55:11 2006. I was at the Long Island Sunrise Trail 40th anniversary as well but didn't stay past the refreshments. It was my first LIST meeting in 20 years. He mentioned that M-1's will probably be gone by the end of the year. |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Apr 22 09:56:37 2006, in response to The LIRR President Speaks, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Apr 21 23:55:11 2006. They are at capacity at Ronkonkoma. They have been studying ridership patterns, and have gathhered that many people ONLY come to Ronkonkoma because of the service, and they come from other places.In other words, what I've been saying for years: the testosterone-dripping, alphanumeric-driving*, cartball-playing, won't-fight-back-against-the-hijackers, new-trophy-wife-every-few-years Alpha-Male SCA's who infest Ronkonkoma flock to that station like flies to a grogan because they're too lazy to drag their God-damned suit-covered anii ten feet across the platform at Jamaica/Hicksville/Babylon/Huntington and therefore refuse to take the underutilized Port Jefferson or Montauk lines even when, as is so often the case, they live closer to those lines. That being said, he did rule out just about completely (at least at this time), any increase in diesel service east of ronkonkoma. Any increase in service would come in the form of electrification. He should have explained why. They are EXTREMELY happy with the performance of the M7's. They have surpased all expectations. They had been expected to run at least 100,000 miles between breakdowns, and have consistintly exceeded that by landslides. Notice he didn't say anything about rider (dis)comfort. He touched on photography, and mentioned that it was perfectly legal TO TAKE PHOTOS ON MTA PROPERTY AND NO ONE SHOULD BOTHER YOU. Fine, except for the fact that it's the MTA Police who harrass photographers, not MTA management. * = cheap cars have model names, while expensive cars have alphanumeric designations (Honda Accord/Acura TL, Nissan Altima/Infiniti G35, Volkswagen Passat/Audi A6). There are a few exceptions on both sides (Ford 500, Mazda3, Porsche Cayenne) but the rule usually holds. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Sat Apr 22 11:12:06 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Apr 22 08:43:06 2006. Yeah, and they were slow and uncomfortable. M-1's were made by The Budd Company, and represent the pinicle of transit vehicle technology. Its all downhill after Budd. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Apr 22 11:19:11 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Apr 22 09:29:19 2006. They had to do a study to figure that out? I really hope the electrification goes to Riverhead. I don't see the point in just ending it at Manorville or Yaphank. BTW, there is no way in hell they will have a yard built on that property in Manorville, and fortunately, they know it and are looking for another location.Yes, he said that too. They own a lot of land in Manorville, but that is because that's where the old station was, as well as a lot of land in that area because of the Manorville branch that was there too. The problem is it's in the middle of the Pine barren district, and he acknowledged that there is little chance the large yard they have planned east of Ronkonkoma because of that. They are actively persuing a land swap with Suffolk county for a few potential sites, mostly around Yaphank. He did not rule out Riverhead though. He said anything between Riverhead and Yaphank is on the table as an option. This is a serious plan, as he said some funding is already there, as the funding that was obtained for the NOW TOTALLY SCRAPPED yard and electrification on the Port Jefferson Branch will be now transferred and focused on the Mainline instead. Hopefully that added DM will go to the OB line. They only have one now while other lines have 2 or 3. Here would have been an intereting idea. After May 26th, they have a direct from NYP to Montauk every Friday night.... Then just have that express run covered by the train comming from Greenport(5:30 out of Greenport). One thing he was pretty clear on (because this was actually in one of the audience's questions) was that there is basically absolutely NO CHANCE of a dual mode out of Greenport, or east of Ronkonkoma. He made that very clear. He said there is no room or facility in the Ronkonkoma yard to have a dual mode, especially because the dual modes require two engines. There is also little or no chance of an expansion of diesel service east of Ronkonkoma at this point either. While he stopped short of saying it was because of "low ridership" (he was clear that they UNDERSTAND that people only come all the way to Ronkonkoma because of the service ---THEY KNOW THIS, and he made it very clear that they also UNDERSTAND that Yaphank will explode in ridership once they extend Ronkonkoma electrification and service to Yaphank). They DO KNOW AND UNDERSTAND THIS. The problem is that ROnkonkoma Yard is at 100% capacity. It can handle NO MORE. They already have an easement on the McArthur Airport property for the last two tracks that will EVER be added to Ronkonkoma Yard. They have extended capacity as far as they can. They HAVE to go east. This means they can put no more trains at this time in or out of Ronkonkoma, and this means eastward too. There is NO ROOM for any more trains to be stored, diesel or electric. Until this new yard is built, and electrification extended, east of Ronkonkoma service will stay just as it is. It's a capacity problem, there's NO WAY to do more than they do with current infastructure. About PD tower. MAY 8TH is the official LAST DAY of operation for PD TOWER. I'm told that the tower is too far gone and preservation efforts have been abandonned b/c of the physical shape of the tower. I'm told it will be taken down 3 weeks after it is closed. He said it will "torn down very shortly after the new signalling goes into effect in May, but made it clear that it will survive through June. He said "Immediately in May, the stairways WILL ne ripped off the tower to avoid tresspass, but they do have stuff stored downstairs that will remain through June. At that point PD Tower will be on death watch. He made it very clear that they have EVERY intention to Knock it down very soon, unless a deal is worked out with that Bethpage historical group, or Patchogue Village, and he was not optomistic about it. For all intents and purposes PD TOWER IS HISTORY. He made that very clear. As for Jay, Dunton, and Hall, he didn't say they were going to be knocked down. I think he may have even said they may still be maned in some way. I'm not clear on that. I do know he said they WILL be consolidated though, whatever that means. I forgot to mention he also mentioned the 1/2 hourly servicd on Port Washington. I agree about Mineola. As for increases on the Ronkonkoma Branch weekends or any other time, he said not at this time. It would be AT LEAST two years before any increase on service on weekends would happen. This is because of the ongoing trackwork being done on that line in the next year or two. He said he didn't want to add service, just to have to take it away again because of trackwork, so for now, it stays as it is. Glad he made a public announcement about photography being legal. And I think it's pretty cool he showed a slideshow about the history of the LIRR. believe me, he couldn't have been clearer on this fact. He made it VERY clear that it was completely legal, as long as it's on public accesible areas, and not in yards, etc (meaning you would have to enter illegally). He even went so far as to say they even allow it in the yards sometimes if people ask and come legally. But as a general rule, he couldn't have BEEN ANY CLEARER THAT THERE IS abosolutley no problem taking photos. |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sat Apr 22 11:19:15 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by Jersey Mike on Sat Apr 22 11:12:06 2006. Downhill? It's going uphill. In your opinion, it went downhill after Budd, but we all know that it's going uphill. If so why are the "uphill" M1s being scrapped because the arrival of the "downhill" M7s? Doesn't sound right does it? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Apr 22 11:21:46 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by tydev417 on Sat Apr 22 11:19:15 2006. The M1's get about 27,000 miles between breakdowns, and the M7's get 150,000+ between breakdowns. 100,000 miles was their goak, and they have completely exceded all expectations.That should be the answer right there. Everyone's so concerned about the "railfan window", but the railroad isn't run for railfans contrary to some people's beliefs here. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Apr 22 11:22:50 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by Booge on Sat Apr 22 09:49:00 2006. Ah, so you were there too!!!!I also didn't stay past the refreshments either. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Apr 22 11:27:50 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Apr 22 09:56:37 2006. In other words, what I've been saying for years: the testosterone-dripping, alphanumeric-driving*, cartball-playing, won't-fight-back-against-the-hijackers, new-trophy-wife-every-few-years Alpha-Male SCA's who infest Ronkonkoma flock to that station like flies to a grogan because they're too lazy to drag their God-damned suit-covered anii ten feet across the platform at Jamaica/Hicksville/Babylon/Huntington and therefore refuse to take the underutilized Port Jefferson or Montauk lines even when, as is so often the case, they live closer to those lines.Hahaha. Yes that's the jist of it. And the railroad KNOWS they will also come to Yaphank when it materializes. Me personally? I take the Montauk Branch any day over the Ronkonkoma Branch. It's so much less stressful, the C3's are way more comfortable, and the "people" are much more tolerable. The only times I drive to Ronkonkoma is when I know I am going to be in Manhattan late, and since the last train out of Penn Station to the Montauk Branch is only 12:30 in the morning, I have to take the Ronkonkoma line because it has service all night. It only takes once to learn your lesson to be at Penn Station at 1:00 in the morning, my car parked along the Montauk Branch, and the only trains going close to home are going to Ronkonkoma, then being stranded at Ronkonkoma, and having to call someone in the middle of the night to pick me up and drive me to my car.... |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Apr 22 11:32:31 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Apr 22 09:56:37 2006. Notice he didn't say anything about rider (dis)comfort.Nope, not a word. And no one in the audience brought it up either, and there was plenty of time to ask questions of him. The mechanic success of the M7's was quite impressive, even they were amazed. Too bad they couldn't have the comfort of the interiors of the C3's, with the mechanical success of the M7's all in one train. He was pretty clear on how embarrassing the DM/DE30 fiasco was (no he didn't use that word of course - haha). When he touched on why there are not many more dual modes running on the diesel branches he pointed to the failure rate of the DM30's as a reason. They were very hesitant to expand to more dual modes because of the fear of mechanical failure, and thus delays as a result. He did say though that while they are STILL performing underneath the goal of what they should be doing, they have become a little more confident with them, as they are improving. Still far from where they should be, but certainly better than they were. |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Apr 22 11:42:40 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Apr 22 11:27:50 2006. Me personally? I take the Montauk Branch any day over the Ronkonkoma Branch. It's so much less stressful, the C3's are way more comfortable, and the "people" are much more tolerable.I'm going to see if I can adjust my work hours slightly so that I can catch the 5:10 and therefore go from Patchogue. Ronkonkoma has gone from bad to intolerable. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Apr 22 11:46:12 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Apr 22 11:32:31 2006. He was pretty clear on how embarrassing the DM/DE30 fiasco was (no he didn't use that word of course - haha). When he touched on why there are not many more dual modes running on the diesel branches he pointed to the failure rate of the DM30's as a reason. They were very hesitant to expand to more dual modes because of the fear of mechanical failure, and thus delays as a result.Dual modes are nice but not a necessity. Easy transfers at Jamaica/etc. completely obviate the need for them. Except, of course, for the fact that most riders refuse to change trains no matter how easy the process may be. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Apr 22 11:51:53 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Apr 22 11:19:11 2006. The problem is that ROnkonkoma Yard is at 100% capacity. It can handle NO MORE. They already have an easement on the McArthur Airport property for the last two tracks that will EVER be added to Ronkonkoma Yard. They have extended capacity as far as they can. They HAVE to go east. This means they can put no more trains at this time in or out of Ronkonkoma, and this means eastward too. There is NO ROOM for any more trains to be stored, diesel or electric.The current diesel trainset used for Greenport service uses a spare track a short distance to the west of the Ronkonkoma platforms, not the yard at all. I'm not positive, but it looks as if this spare track could accommodate a second short trainset, which is all that's needed to provide a useful level of service at least to Riverhead. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Apr 22 11:52:31 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Apr 22 11:42:40 2006. I don't know how anyone can handle ROnkonkoma. It's a zoo. First of all, you have to park miles away from the station. The LIRR president says there are (I think) 8000 cars at ROnkonkoma. Unfortunately, I forgot what he said the ridership per day was either 20,000 or 200,000, take your pick (I know it's a big difference, but there was so much information to take in, that I couldn't hold number figures).The MTA knows it's a circus there. That's why they want to relieve the stress by electrifying further on the mainline to probably Yaphank, but even as far as Riverhead is on the table. He made it clear they can do NO MORE at Ronkonkoma, it's at 100% capacity. It's probably way above 100% capacity. The problem is that people come from the Montauk and Port Jeff lines to the ROnkonkoma line. There is no way to stop people from doing that. They are working hard at enticing people to the Montauk Branch between Speonk and Patchogue, by improving service (they are also happy about the new signalling going in, allowing more flexibility in the future), but you can't force people to not go to Ronkonkoma. Also, in my opinion, without the Wading River Branch (which would have been so useful today), there is no room for expansion for all those north shore people either that drive to ROnkokoma. I believe the railroad feels the only way to ease the Ronkonkoma problem is to spread it out towards Yaphank and beyond. You will see this happen. Now that they can not build their yard on the Port Jeff line anymore (that is completely and totally scrapped), it's full speed ahead for Yaphank and possibly beyond. |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Apr 22 12:02:29 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Apr 22 11:52:31 2006. The problem is that people come from the Montauk and Port Jeff lines to the ROnkonkoma line. There is no way to stop people from doing that.Actually there IS a way, but of course the LIRR would never consider it. My idea: terminate all Ronkonkoma trains at Jamaica, forcing everyone to change trains for the trip into Penn. Some Ronkonkoma trainsets could be shifted to Penn-Jamaica shuttle service. Then there'd be no advantage, from a rider's point of view, to choosing Ronkonkoma over Pt. Jefferson/Montauk. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 22 12:28:43 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Apr 22 09:56:37 2006. In other words, what I've been saying for years: the testosterone-dripping, alphanumeric-driving*, cartball-playing, won't-fight-back-against-the-hijackers, new-trophy-wife-every-few-years Alpha-Male SCA's who infest Ronkonkoma flock to that station like flies to a grogan because they're too lazy to drag their God-damned suit-covered anii ten feet across the platform at Jamaica/Hicksville/Babylon/Huntington and therefore refuse to take the underutilized Port Jefferson or Montauk lines even when, as is so often the case, they live closer to those lines. ROTFLMAO!!! Didn't you know Ronkonkoma, and all those other East-Cupcake suburbs were built specifically to house these creatures!!! LMAO driving my 4cyl. Mazda protege, while dreaming of ways to kill hijackers, have only one wife, not management where I work, so I have to earn it...what does SCA stand for (I know it should be glaringly obvious...) |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 22 12:32:48 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Apr 22 11:52:31 2006. That's the success of the Ronk electrification meeting the NIMBYs who ride those same trains, but don't want the yards next to their houses. It's like me saying I want central air in my house, but don't want the powwer station that makes the volts to run it, to be on my corner... |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Apr 22 13:43:59 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Apr 22 12:02:29 2006. Is parking at Ronkonkoma all surface level (that is, a big spread-out lot)?What about a parking garage there, so you're never more than an elevator ride from the train platform? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Apr 22 13:48:14 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Apr 22 13:43:59 2006. There is a parking garage (where the sell parking spaces), but it's also a hike to the platforms. No matter where they put the garage, it would be a "hike". I can't explain Ronkonkoma unless you have experienced it, but "zoo" is a good description. |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Apr 22 14:45:05 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Apr 22 13:48:14 2006. No matter where they put the garage, it would be a "hike". I can't explain Ronkonkoma unless you have experienced it, but "zoo" is a good description.Though very derogatory toward zoo animals. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Posted by nasadowsk on Sat Apr 22 15:59:36 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Apr 22 11:21:46 2006. The M7s also use 2X the electricity, tear up track, are noisy as fuck when the wheels get flat spots, are slow as shit, and ride like crap.The bathroom location is totally wrong, it wastes space and leaks everywhere, the seats suck, the doors are slow and noisy, the door closing signal is irritating as hell (plus narrow spectrum, i.e. partially deaf people can't hear it as well as the old bell), the reliability will dive into the gutter in about another 6 years when the DC link capacitors start failing, becvause the LIRR can't ever be bothered to do prevenitive maintenance on anything. The M-7s are hardly progress, they're basically a 50's railcar with an AC inverter drive instead on unit switch. As for the diesel fleet? The LIRR should dump it now for something better. those things are dogs and the whole planet knows it. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Apr 22 16:01:58 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by nasadowsk on Sat Apr 22 15:59:36 2006. Don't kill the messenger....I am just repeating what was said at the meeting. |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sat Apr 22 16:28:11 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by nasadowsk on Sat Apr 22 15:59:36 2006. Please listen (this is getting annoying), the M7s are here to stay! Deal with them or don't ride them. Stop confusing facts about the M7s with your own opinions. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Apr 22 16:33:47 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Apr 22 13:48:14 2006. What about putting it right over the tracks? Idss there no way to do that? That is, parking, some retail stuff (food, shops) would be the upper levels of the building and the train platforms would be the ground level. |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Apr 22 16:34:06 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by tydev417 on Sat Apr 22 16:28:11 2006. LOL, calm down. I'm all for modernization of equipment, but not everything new is great. The M7s may work well now but we'll see how they're doing once the warranty runs out and the MTA has to work on their own EMUs. A few tens of thousands of dollars in maitenance over the next few years aren't going to matter a whole hell of a lot when compared to however many millions of dollars for power costs over the next 30 years. |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sat Apr 22 16:34:57 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Apr 22 08:12:36 2006. I heard that the last of the M1s will be gone by next February. |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sat Apr 22 16:36:46 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by WillD on Sat Apr 22 16:34:06 2006. LOL, calm down.I wasn't mad, i was doing it in a funny way. |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sat Apr 22 16:39:28 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by Jersey Mike on Sat Apr 22 11:12:06 2006. Budd is overrated. |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Apr 22 16:49:05 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sat Apr 22 16:39:28 2006. yup if Budd was so good how come they are no more. |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sat Apr 22 17:05:30 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Apr 22 16:49:05 2006. Probably because they went out of business in the 1980's. |
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Posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Sat Apr 22 17:12:49 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by tydev417 on Sat Apr 22 16:28:11 2006. Please listen (this is getting annoying), the M7s suck all manner and means of ass! Learn to accept it. Stop confusing age with quality. |
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Posted by nasadowsk on Sat Apr 22 17:13:16 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sat Apr 22 17:05:30 2006. Newsflash guys:Budd's still alive and well, it's just that they got out of the railcar business in the 80's. Probbably because it wasn't worth the effort - they make more on their other lines and likely did years ago too. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 22 17:16:08 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by nasadowsk on Sat Apr 22 17:13:16 2006. Nope: most likely due to EU competition, who didn't want a US brand name to build railcars.Budd Company website |
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Posted by tydev417 on Sat Apr 22 17:46:01 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Sat Apr 22 17:12:49 2006. alright, whatever. |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Apr 22 18:38:50 2006, in response to Re: The LIRR President Speaks, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Apr 22 16:49:05 2006. yup if Budd was so good how come they are no more.Most likely because in the 1960s and 70s the Penn Central and the Long Island railroads did away with the extensive prototype testing programs which had done them well up until then. This resulted in the Metroliners and M1s having extensive teething problems which in turn resulted in their withdrawal from the self propelled MU market. If Amtrak had ordered a few more Amfleets, the SPVs had worked out, or NYC had turned to them for the R62 order then I'd imagine there's a good chance Budd would still be around. It even could have been as simple as the Penn Central and MTA taking a few months longer to test and check the Metroliners and M1s before pressing them into service. Of course with the MP54s falling apart and the GG1s becoming less and less acceptable they were desperately needed. The sad thing is that the current trains go through even more extensive testing than the PRR's stuff ever did, and they STILL suck. The Acelas sat at 30th St Station for something like two years, were tested at Pueblo, and ran all over the NEC, yet they have suffered through yaw damper problems, shroud losses, and a variety of mechanical problems. The M7s have had various problems, are unpopular with (some) of the riders, and will never have one of their largest problem fixed, that of weight, and that alone will cost NYS Taxpayers millions of dollars over the next 30 to 40 years. |
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