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| [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station (1649082) | |
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[VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Jun 17 15:48:16 2026 |
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Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Wed Jun 17 16:43:54 2026, in response to [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Jun 17 15:48:16 2026. The anchor is having a hard time keeping a straight face. He knows it will never be built. |
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Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Jun 17 18:30:02 2026, in response to Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Jun 17 16:43:54 2026. Time to cue up Steve Allen laughing uncontrollably. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Jun 17 19:43:53 2026, in response to Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Jun 17 18:30:02 2026. nah, once the appropriate graft and grift are set up, it will outdo the existing SAS in delays and cost overruns. IMHO no plan not including evicting MSG is worth the paper drawn on. |
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Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by irtredbirdr33 on Thu Jun 18 09:23:18 2026, in response to [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Jun 17 15:48:16 2026. Bill: I remember when they tore down toe old Penn Station. What was left was a glorified tunnel and a non-stop construction job for the past 60 years. The only real improvement would be to tear down Madison Square Garden and start over. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Jun 18 10:59:57 2026, in response to Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station, posted by irtredbirdr33 on Thu Jun 18 09:23:18 2026. I too remember as a kid walking thru the original Penn Sta with my parents. It was dark & eerie. The concrete pillars were desperately in need of a steam cleaning. At the time the PRR owner was broke. They couldn't afford to maintain it & make any effort to make riders feel comfortable. The mindset at the time is that the long distance train was on borrowed time so such a grandiose station was not needed.So they got big bucks for the air rights and the rest is history as they say |
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Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 18 11:20:11 2026, in response to Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Jun 17 16:43:54 2026. You're one of those people who always says "it won't be built" to everything even when it's entirely likely it'll be built.Although they're definitely going to renovate Penn Station at some point, it likely won't be this design. |
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Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jun 18 13:19:33 2026, in response to Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Jun 18 10:59:57 2026. GCT was dark and eerie before it was cleaned up in the 1990s. It's overdue for another such cleaning; the ceiling looks better in blue than in dirty green. Nobody questions the "need" for such a station, even though all of the long-distance service is gone from there and it's solely for commuter trains now.And why did long-distance trains "go away"? Draconian regulation and taxation that made it too expensive for private companies to run them, plus the selfsame regulations that made it too expensive to develop high-speed rail—even though there were several attempts to do so. |
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Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jun 18 19:16:33 2026, in response to Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station, posted by irtredbirdr33 on Thu Jun 18 09:23:18 2026. YES |
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Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Jun 18 22:18:47 2026, in response to Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jun 18 13:19:33 2026. GCT was a mess back in the early 80s. The homeless took over the waiting room. Crack addict women were actively on sale. Crowd control after holidays was minimal at best. After St Patrick's day parade, drunken kids would turn the place into a huge urinal. The feeling of why bother permeated management attitude since rumors and plans were out there to destroy the main concourse, ceiling and all by sticking an office building right in the middle. Penn Central realty owned GCT at the time & figured by wrecking GCT it would sweeten their bottom line with pricey midtown rental fees."Renovated" for the better just like Penn Sta. But that got all turned around. When Penn Sta was the victim of urban vandalism, the landmarks perseveration act came about lead by Mayor Kock & Jackie O. Saved GCT. Ironically enough, the destruction of Penn Station was what helped save Grand Central Terminal. Then came all that refurbishing. With all this enthusiasm and a few $$$, This transportation cathedral should last another thousand years |
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Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Jun 19 06:38:30 2026, in response to Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station, posted by irtredbirdr33 on Thu Jun 18 09:23:18 2026. The only real improvement would be to tear down Madison Square Garden and start over.Then you'll have to tear down Penn Plaza to do the job right. Of course, both won't happen. Bill M. |
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Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by irtredbirdr33 on Fri Jun 19 08:37:36 2026, in response to Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station, posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Jun 19 06:38:30 2026. No big loss there either. The only good thing to come out of it was that Grand Central was saved. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by Avid reader on Fri Jun 19 11:06:41 2026, in response to Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Jun 18 22:18:47 2026. PHOTO
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Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Jun 19 11:43:12 2026, in response to Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station, posted by Avid reader on Fri Jun 19 11:06:41 2026. I wrote this a long time ago on the old Penn Station:Yes, it was a crime when the original Penn Station was torn down to make way for the current Madison Square Garden and 1 & 2 Penn Plaza, but it was a no-win situation at the time. Tearing it down was TODAY a mistake, but there would have been a very long, rocky road to getting Penn Station to the mid-1990's or so when it likely would have gotten the kind of rehab Grand Central eventually did get. You have to remember that neighborhood was RAPIDLY deteriorating then as were other parts of NYC, fueled in part by corruption but also by a rapidly exploding drug culture that made many parts of Manhattan unsafe to be in after dark. Had the old Penn Station remained, it could have easily turned into a case of "be careful what you wish for" because the old station had a lot of openings that could have easily made it a haven for drug dealers (and a lot more than the re-done, ugly station had). It also would likely have deteriorated through the '70s and '80s when a series of recessions that started with 1969-'70 and continuing through 1990-'91 would likely have taken their toll on Penn Station before it finally would have been fixed up, most likely under Dinkins and Guliani (a lot of people forget the cleanup of Times Square actually started in 1992 under David Dinkins before Giuliani was elected). There also was the matter of the Knicks and Rangers. The old MSG on 8th-9th Avenues and 49th-50th Streets was even by 1962 RAPIDLY becoming obsolete, and even if it had been renovated (including possibly expanded by knocking out 8th-9th avenues and 50th-51st Street to make it double the size it was) instead of moved, by the early '70s you would have seen Sonny Werblin making a serious effort to get the Knicks and Rangers to move into what eventually was built for the Nets and opened as The Brendan Byrne Arena (in 1981), but in this case opening with the complex in 1976. That would actually have been looked at by many as a MUCH more serious crime than tearing down the old Penn Station much like many consider it a bigger crime that the Giants (since 1976) and Jets (since 1984) have been playing in The Meadowlands. Even if by now the Knicks and Rangers would have moved back to Manhattan and playing in a newer MSG (most likely the one proposed for the Javits Center in 1986), there would have been those who would have been very angry with those who wanted Penn Station saved to the point where the Knicks and Rangers moved to New Jersey. Many people care much more about sports than anything else, and that's why I say that. There would have been a lot of unintended consequences of keeping the old Penn Station even if today it would have been as beloved as ever. |
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Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 19 14:41:16 2026, in response to Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station, posted by irtredbirdr33 on Fri Jun 19 08:37:36 2026. False dilemma. |
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Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 19 14:42:14 2026, in response to Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station, posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Jun 19 11:43:12 2026. there would have been a very long, rocky road to getting Penn Station to the mid-1990s or so when it likely would have gotten the kind of rehab Grand Central eventually did getAbsurd notion. |
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Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jun 19 15:55:55 2026, in response to Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station, posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Jun 19 11:43:12 2026. Lexington Ave outside of GCT in the late 70s-early 80s was no better. Hookers patrolled up and down that area on the east side of Lex in broad daylight. Toss in a few massage parlors, located where the old Burger King right across from the Post Office was and you have a tossed salad of decadence and drug usage.Thats the way it was. |
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Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by X-Astorian on Fri Jun 19 16:49:32 2026, in response to Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station, posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Jun 19 11:43:12 2026. You have to remember that neighborhood was RAPIDLY deteriorating then as were other parts of NYC, fueled in part by corruption but also by a rapidly exploding drug culture that made many parts of Manhattan unsafe to be in after dark.What I remember is that Penn Station was adjacent to what was then a still vibrant garment district, a short block from Macy's and an avenue away from Saks-34th St. and Gimbels with much retail in between. Right across Seventh Avenue was the huge Statler-Hilton Hotel (earlier and later the Hotel Pennsylvania) and the Governor Clinton Hotel which were quite decent and mainly served business people and tourists. Nighttime may have been different but from what I experienced, I can't buy "RAPIDLY deteriorating." |
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Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jun 19 17:21:17 2026, in response to Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station, posted by irtredbirdr33 on Fri Jun 19 08:37:36 2026. Right on! |
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Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Jun 19 19:18:08 2026, in response to Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station, posted by Avid reader on Fri Jun 19 11:06:41 2026. I read that when they started jabbing those columns, people were actually shocked to find out they were pink underneath all the soot and grime. |
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Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by Avid reader on Sat Jun 20 09:12:12 2026, in response to [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Jun 17 15:48:16 2026. Look here, he Greydog terminal next to NY Penn Station |
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Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jun 20 12:57:21 2026, in response to Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 19 14:42:14 2026. IAWTP |
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Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by BusMgr on Sat Jun 20 12:58:53 2026, in response to Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jun 18 13:19:33 2026. Long-distance trains went away primarily because what is perceived as a "better" means of long-distance transportation, air travel, supplanted them. Air travel is faster, and with less infrastructure to maintain (that is, there are no "tracks" in the airspace), this is no surprise. This is not to say that air travel has, or should, completely supplant train travel, but in terms of importance and magnitude for most long-distance travel train travel would have declined even in the absence of all regulation, taxation, etc. We may have gone too far in reducing train service, particularly on routes where Amtrak routinely sells out of space, and there ought to be more train service. So while public policy helped eliminate many trains, the real culprit was the emergence of air travel as practicable for long-distance transportation for most Americans. |
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Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Jun 20 18:03:16 2026, in response to Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jun 18 13:19:33 2026. Lets not forget about the "Eisenhower Interstate System". That took folks off the trains and put them in cars. |
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Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jun 20 22:10:19 2026, in response to Re: [VIDEO] Inside the redesign of Penn Station, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Jun 20 18:03:16 2026. Last I knew, inter city travel was 8x% car, 12+% air, rail,bus etc "in the noise:. |
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