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| 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question (1641000) | |
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| (1641006) | |
Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question |
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Posted by W.B. on Sun Apr 27 21:45:02 2025, in response to 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question, posted by Italianstallion on Sun Apr 27 13:23:31 2025. In that area, there are two entrances/exits, each on different levels. The one high up would be on Fort Washington Avenue, which requires one to take elevators down. This is pretty much near to where The Cloisters are situated. Bennett Avenue was waaaaaaaay below. But the station name would pretty much reflect the general area, I guess. |
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| (1641016) | |
Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question |
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Posted by Q65A on Mon Apr 28 09:50:38 2025, in response to Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question, posted by W.B. on Sun Apr 27 21:45:02 2025. From nycsubway,org:"Two tracks, two side platforms. This is one of the deepest stations in the system, approximately 140 feet down, well under Fort Tryon Park. The line at this point was built as a deep-bore tunnel and the walls have the curved tunnel bore look, as opposed to the typical IND cut-and-cover look. The tile colors are like those at Dyckman St. On the northbound side there is a big name tablet reading "190-Overlook Ter.", but the matching one on the southbound side has been painted over. There is a small mezzanine with the fare control gates above the center of the platform. There are "Uptown" and "Downtown" directional mosaics in the mezzanine, and the south end affords a view of the tracks. There are two exits from the 190th Street/Overlook Terrace station, neither of which leads to 190th Street or Overlook Terrace. One exit is via elevators to Fort Washington Avenue at Cabrini Boulevard and the Margaret Corbin Circle entrance to Fort Tryon Park. The elevators are still manually operated by an attendant. The other exit is a long downward-sloping corridor out to Bennett Avenue between 192nd Street and Broadway." |
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| (1641017) | |
Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Mon Apr 28 10:07:13 2025, in response to Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question, posted by Q65A on Mon Apr 28 09:50:38 2025. Nice cut and paste job but it doesn’t answer the question. |
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| (1641018) | |
Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Apr 28 11:41:17 2025, in response to Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question, posted by Q65A on Mon Apr 28 09:50:38 2025. While we're on the topic, are there any other stations (worldwide) that are comparable -- that is, stations with entrances/exits that are so drastically far away from each other and/or hardly correspond to the station name? |
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| (1641019) | |
Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 28 12:32:10 2025, in response to Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Apr 28 11:41:17 2025. West 4th St. |
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| (1641021) | |
Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Apr 28 12:54:19 2025, in response to Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 28 12:32:10 2025. Maybe they should call it West .375 Street. |
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| (1641022) | |
Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 28 13:01:05 2025, in response to 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question, posted by Italianstallion on Sun Apr 27 13:23:31 2025. This old map shows Overlook Terrace extending to a nonexistent section of 193rd Street, which appears to be where the upper stationhouse currently is. That explains the Overlook Terrace part, but not the 190th Street part. |
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| (1641024) | |
Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question |
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Posted by Kevin from Midwood on Mon Apr 28 13:13:00 2025, in response to Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question, posted by W.B. on Sun Apr 27 21:45:02 2025. Just for fun, I threw this query at a couple of LLMs in deep research mode to see if they could surface any obscure documents, but no dice. ChatGPT was confused by an error in the station's National Register nomination form: "The entrance ramp on Overlook Terrace is built into the side of arock wall." Of course 181st Street has an entrance on Overlook, but here they probably mistook it for 190th's entrance on Bennett Avenue. |
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| (1641032) | |
Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Apr 28 15:17:10 2025, in response to Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question, posted by AlM on Mon Apr 28 12:54:19 2025. Ironically it seems that not only did the station lose its namesake exits, but the word "West" was only added to differentiate the station from South 4th St, which of course was never built. So now there are no exits on either West 4th or South 4th! |
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| (1641034) | |
Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Mon Apr 28 15:33:40 2025, in response to Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 28 13:01:05 2025. Nice pull... |
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| (1641036) | |
Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Mon Apr 28 16:24:43 2025, in response to Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question, posted by Q65A on Mon Apr 28 09:50:38 2025. Yes, I did say in my post that Wikipedia did not have an answer. |
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| (1641037) | |
Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Mon Apr 28 16:25:00 2025, in response to Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Apr 28 10:07:13 2025. Thank you. |
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| (1641038) | |
Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Mon Apr 28 16:25:47 2025, in response to Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 28 13:01:05 2025. Good find, thanks. |
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| (1641039) | |
Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Apr 28 17:21:10 2025, in response to 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question, posted by Italianstallion on Sun Apr 27 13:23:31 2025. The elevator is near the north end of the station, so that suggests that the intersection of 190th and Ft Washington Blvd is roughly above the south end.Total speculation on my part would be that during planning stages they decided to put the elevator at the south end, and assigned the station a name appropriate to that decision, and then later changed their minds for some reason about the elevator location. |
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| (1641052) | |
Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Apr 29 14:31:31 2025, in response to Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question, posted by AlM on Mon Apr 28 17:21:10 2025. That would make sense. There is such a steep difference between those levels.And by the time the (A) gets to 200th Street-Broadway it's I believe on a much closer to normal ground level (while the (1) goes from being the deepest station in the system at 191 to having part of 200th-Dyckman being on an elevated line). |
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| (1641057) | |
Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question |
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Posted by gbs on Tue Apr 29 22:20:24 2025, in response to Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Apr 29 14:31:31 2025. The #1 tracks and the A tracks handle the hilly terrain of northern Manhattan very differently. When the original IRT was built in the early 1900s, the motors in the trucks weren't very powerful, so the designers made the tracks as level as possible. So north of 116 St, while the terrain slopes down into the 125 St valley and then slopes back up again, the #1 tracks remain level, becoming elevated at the 125 St station on the arch. Continuing north, as the ground rises to 191 St, the #1 remains level and the stations get deeper. Eventually, the Fort George hill ends sharply, and the #1 pierces through the cliffside and becomes elevated again, remaining virtually level throughout. (Note that the stone above the tunnel portal says "Fort George" and "1776 1905".)  When the IND was built about 30 years later, the motors were more powerful and could handle the hills, so under St Nicholas Avenue, north of 135 St the terrain rises up to Sugar Hill and beyond, and the A tracks rise as well, all cut-and-cover, even at 168 St. North of 181 St, even though Fort Washington Avenue continues to rise, the A tracks, deep bore, start to dip, because when the Fort Washington hill ends at Dyckman St, the A is still underground, but close to the surface and cut-and-cover. |
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| (1641058) | |
Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed Apr 30 06:47:01 2025, in response to Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Apr 29 14:31:31 2025. Similarly, if I recall correctly the F/G are relatively level between the high elevated at Smith-9th and the 7th Ave underground station. |
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| (1641059) | |
Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Apr 30 07:38:53 2025, in response to Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question, posted by gbs on Tue Apr 29 22:20:24 2025. the designers made the tracks as level as possibleHowever, the #6 tracks take quite a drop from 86th north to 103rd. Though I agree that is less of a drop than would have been required to keep the #1 underground at 125th. |
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| (1641071) | |
Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Apr 30 21:01:19 2025, in response to Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question, posted by gbs on Tue Apr 29 22:20:24 2025. Which makes perfect sense. The (1) at Fort George is basically level through its run and the elevated areas are more the nature of the areas themselves as opposed to rising and dropping, same with 125 being elevated being the nature of the area. |
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| (1641072) | |
Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question |
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Posted by gbs on Wed Apr 30 23:03:31 2025, in response to Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question, posted by AlM on Wed Apr 30 07:38:53 2025. That stretch along Lexington Avenue was built about 15 years after the original subway, so by then the motors must have been more powerful and the grades not as much of an issue. The one-block hill on Lex from 103 to 102 St is one of the steepest one-block hills in the city. Try biking up it. (And check out the buses in the snow.) |
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| (1641073) | |
Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Wed Apr 30 23:41:12 2025, in response to Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question, posted by gbs on Wed Apr 30 23:03:31 2025. Snow? |
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| (1641074) | |
Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu May 1 00:55:10 2025, in response to Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question, posted by AlM on Wed Apr 30 07:38:53 2025. The original 1904 route turned W/B on 42nd Street. The Lexington Avenue portion was built later on. |
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| (1641075) | |
Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu May 1 01:22:11 2025, in response to Re: 190 St. - Overlook Terrace station question, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Apr 30 23:41:12 2025. I remember a snow sufficient to bring out skiers on Third Ave. |
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