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How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?

Posted by gbs on Fri Feb 28 19:45:29 2025


I've been using my no-photo senior OMNY card for a few weeks now and this hasn't come up yet, but it eventually will. When the inspectors board an SBS bus and ask for proof of payment, what can I do?

Cash and Metrocard users show a paper receipt. Those who use their phones for OMNY can, I believe, show a display on their screens to show payment. What can OMNY card users show?



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Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?

Posted by AlM on Fri Feb 28 20:46:36 2025, in response to How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?, posted by gbs on Fri Feb 28 19:45:29 2025.

Good question. Let me know when you find out. I've wondered the same. My wife does exactly this on the 14th Street bus all the time, and that line swarms with inspectors. But she hasn't been checked yet.

I think maybe the inspectors have an OMNY card reader of some sort.



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Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Mar 1 07:37:09 2025, in response to How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?, posted by gbs on Fri Feb 28 19:45:29 2025.

The only possible way is that the inspectors have a reader. There is precedent in other cities with POP that both a card or smart device can be scanned to show the inspector it was used to pay fare. What I'm waiting to find out (as I have yet to be checked myself) is if Express Mode -- which I always use -- also works for these inspections (i.e. I don't need to wake or unlock the device).

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Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?

Posted by Displaced Angeleno on Sat Mar 1 12:40:53 2025, in response to How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?, posted by gbs on Fri Feb 28 19:45:29 2025.

Inspectors have readers that can detect if an OMNY fare was paid.

Unfortunately, if you hit the fare cap for the week, since they only detect paid fares, they are unable to verify if such riders have paid and it has caused a fair amount of friction (no pun intended).

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Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?

Posted by r17-6599 on Sat Mar 1 22:31:16 2025, in response to How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?, posted by gbs on Fri Feb 28 19:45:29 2025.

The few times I have used my Senior OMNY on an SBS line, I have tapped on board the bus. I have never had an OMNY reader fail.

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(1639665)

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Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Mar 2 06:46:06 2025, in response to Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?, posted by r17-6599 on Sat Mar 1 22:31:16 2025.

He means when you get inspected. What do you show the inspector? I can't think of any other method other than the inspector having an electronic reader that confirms this particular card/device was tapped. Since I haven't seen any such reader yet though I can't be sure, nor would I know how much information is given to the inspector (direction of travel, stop tapped at, etc.)

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Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?

Posted by r17-6599 on Sun Mar 2 10:54:25 2025, in response to Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Mar 2 06:46:06 2025.

I would imagine the situation to be like any other bus route, if, as you say, inspector has mobile reading device. On a regular bus, there are no paper tickets like SBS, so inspector would scan rider's OMNY or Metrocard.
If they do that, and rider pays SBS on board, they are covered.
Other than that it's just another drain in the MTA's already dwindling fares.


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Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?

Posted by AlM on Sun Mar 2 13:10:08 2025, in response to Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?, posted by r17-6599 on Sun Mar 2 10:54:25 2025.

On a regular bus, the back door doesn't open. Enforcement of payment is up to the bus driver. Inspectors never ask riders to show their Metrocard so they can scan it.

What does happen is that when you pay up front, a light facing the back of the bus indicates what type of fare you paid. So if you are a 30 year old and paid with a reduced fare card, an inspector could theoretically ask you to show him your card in order to prove that your reduced fare card has your picture.



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Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?

Posted by r17-6599 on Sun Mar 2 19:19:42 2025, in response to Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?, posted by AlM on Sun Mar 2 13:10:08 2025.

Apparently you don't ride Bronx buses. On a 40 footer, the rear doors indeed do open. As far as fare enforcement, the drive couldn't care less, anymore. Not worth losing his/ her life over. Just drive the bus is what they have been told.
Inspectors? Almost non-existent. But if they were to check if a rider has paid, unless an inspector actually witnessed an evasion, scanning a card would be the only way to prove it.
Unless, of course, the bus was an SBS, which brings us back to the original subject.

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(1639686)

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Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?

Posted by AlM on Sun Mar 2 20:11:54 2025, in response to Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?, posted by r17-6599 on Sun Mar 2 19:19:42 2025.

But if they were to check if a rider has paid, unless an inspector actually witnessed an evasion, scanning a card would be the only way to prove it.

And there is absolutely no evidence from anyone that such a method has ever been used, or is even feasible.



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Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?

Posted by AlM on Sun Mar 2 20:14:13 2025, in response to Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?, posted by r17-6599 on Sun Mar 2 19:19:42 2025.

And of course I oversimplified in saying they don't open the back doors on 40' buses. Of course they do, but they are meant to be used for exit only.

And I am still correct that only the driver is responsible for making sure people pay. They often don't do so out of concern for their personal safety, but it isn't anyone else's responsibility like it is on SBS buses.



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Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?

Posted by r17-6599 on Mon Mar 3 00:25:18 2025, in response to Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?, posted by AlM on Sun Mar 2 20:14:13 2025.

Of course the rear door is "meant" for egress, but both doors are used for that purpose, regardless of what the automated announcement says. Or the signs posted within the bus.
Similarly, entering via the front is the norm, but being NYC, that's not the case. People rush in, grabbing all the seats, 40 foot or 60 foot buses.
The driver "supposedly" is to monitor fare payments, as in the old days, when people didn't feel "entitled" to ride free, but you know as well as I, they won't get involved. If they did, the driver would be so busy with fare beaters, bus would never move. BTW, some time ago, the MTA issued a memo to drivers to not open the rear doors. Riders had to use the front to enter and exit. Time consuming, yes it was. Did the drivers heed the memo, most did not. Did people still enter without paying, yes they did.
As for checking fare card payment with readers carried by inspectors, the technology is there. Case in point, a person in Queens was accused of a crime. His lawyer won the case by proving the client wasn't at the crime scene by calling up the record of his client's Metro card, which showed all the transactions and fare payments, including time and bus routes used during the time of the said crimes.
Can the MTA's inspectors do this? Perhaps, but they seem only to monitor SBS lines, if at all.

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(1639699)

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Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?

Posted by randyo on Mon Mar 3 03:10:32 2025, in response to Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Mar 1 07:37:09 2025.

Although inspectors may have a reader, police officers who often perform such inspections probably don’t.

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Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Mar 3 07:09:46 2025, in response to Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?, posted by AlM on Sun Mar 2 13:10:08 2025.

Those lights are gone. The only way for someone in the back to know about the fare payment is by the sounds of the farebox. Those sounds are somewhat informative, differentiating between unpaid, half-fare, and full-fare, but they don't differentiate between, for example, a Student MetroCard, a regular MetroCard, or a special pass.

And as stated already, bus drivers do not in practice enforce fares. It has been years since I've seen a driver address an evader, and it's hit or miss whether the driver will even press the button to mark the unpaid fare.

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Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Mar 3 07:21:27 2025, in response to Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?, posted by randyo on Mon Mar 3 03:10:32 2025.

The ideal situation is that the police accompany the inspectors.

When I was in Zurich (a fully POP transit system) an inspector or two would board a tram (which would keep moving by the way, so that time isn't lost!) accompanied by a police officer. The police officer would just stand there and watch the procedure. So you have both the people who are determining the evaders and you have the officer to apply enforcement. I can't tell you what happened to the evaders because (shocker) I never encountered any.

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Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Mar 3 07:36:05 2025, in response to Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?, posted by r17-6599 on Mon Mar 3 00:25:18 2025.

a person in Queens was accused of a crime. His lawyer won the case by proving the client wasn't at the crime scene by calling up the record of his client's Metro card, which showed all the transactions and fare payments...Can the MTA's inspectors do this?

The relevant question is how quickly can this be done.

All trip histories are eventually downloaded into a central database. However, the process must take dead zones and communication outages into account. So some immediate information is stored on the Metrocard or OMNY for quick retrieval.

However, the amount of data that can be stored on either card is limited. There has to be a data purge mechanism for destroying trip information at a certain point - preferably after the data has been uploaded to the central database.

How the data is stored on the central database determines how easy or difficult it is to retrieve information. It might be relatively easy to determine a particular Metrocard's use for a relatively recent time period. I'd suspect it would be more difficult and time consuming to determine who else might have been on a particular bus at a certain time, if the database were not designed to answer that particular question.

A fare inspector on an SBS bus would require an immediate response for whether its holder paid a fare. The lawyer in the case you mentioned could afford to wait a week before receiving the answer.

Another point is how willing the MTA is willing to answer such questions. There was a recent request on the MTA Developers Forum for some information regarding which downtown expresses left Grand Central over a certain time period. The request came from the husband of a woman who was robbed on a train. The police told the husband they were stymied because they could not proceed without knowing exactly which train the wife took. I and another person were able to supply that information by looking at the static GTFS (me) and real time GTFS (other person) archives that we kept. The question was fairly easy to answer. I suspect NYPD's stated difficulty came either from their interest in closing the case or the MTA's reluctance to release such information. I've experienced both, so fixing blame is a toss up.

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(1639718)

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Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?

Posted by r17-6599 on Mon Mar 3 15:35:35 2025, in response to Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Mar 3 07:36:05 2025.

Very interesting, especially about that robbery incident.
On the original point, either pay at the SBS' reader or pray alot.
I have reasons to take the M34SBS and generally pay on board. There have been times when the M34SBS was packed with people. Not wanting to be late I try to also pack myself in, thus unable to pay. I figure no inspector will even attempt to board.
I hope I'm wrong.

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Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?

Posted by r17-6599 on Mon Mar 3 15:36:39 2025, in response to Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?, posted by r17-6599 on Mon Mar 3 15:35:35 2025.

Meant to say I hope I'm not proven wrong.

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(1639728)

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Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?

Posted by randyo on Mon Mar 3 18:39:52 2025, in response to Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Mar 3 07:21:27 2025.

That’s not necessarily the way it works though. Here it’s either an inspector or a cop but not both. When I was in LA at the ERA convention, members of the LAPD or the LA County Sheriff’s Dept were checking fares, but I never saw any inspectors.

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Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?

Posted by B1bus on Sat Oct 18 23:16:12 2025, in response to How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?, posted by gbs on Fri Feb 28 19:45:29 2025.

A couple of months ago at McDonald ave and KH, inspectors got on and I simply showed the OMNY card (1/2 fare with no picture -stupid no picture) and no problem. 1 foreign lady got taken off. there is no reader as of yet.
I just emailed them asking if there will be one coming out with all door boarding creeping up on us next year, and no more change being accepted.

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(1644532)

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Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Oct 19 06:45:43 2025, in response to Re: How do OMNY card users prove they paid SBS fares?, posted by B1bus on Sat Oct 18 23:16:12 2025.

>there is no reader as of yet

I have yet to be inspected on SBS (I use an SBS maybe twice a month) so I've been waiting to hear what they've been doing. This implies that currently I can just hold up my phone if I get inspected. That's how I tap in.

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