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| (1631434) | |
AMTRACK POWER ELECTRIC |
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Posted by Baltimorerail on Tue Apr 16 17:54:14 2024 Why is amtrack power 60 cycle north of NYC and 25 cycle south of NYC. |
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Re: AMTRACK POWER ELECTRIC |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 16 18:59:31 2024, in response to AMTRACK POWER ELECTRIC, posted by Baltimorerail on Tue Apr 16 17:54:14 2024. NYNH&H power used to also be 25 Hz, but it was changed by Metro North/CDOT in the 80s. Amtrak intended to upgrade as well, but never did, partly due to cost, except for that one segment between Astoria and New Rochelle. Probably because it allows the changeover to take place at a more convenient location for them.Amtrak electrification north of NH was built in the 1990s and came online in 2000. |
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| (1631436) | |
Re: AMTRAK POWER ELECTRIC |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 16 19:38:29 2024, in response to AMTRACK POWER ELECTRIC, posted by Baltimorerail on Tue Apr 16 17:54:14 2024. Why are you still using a period where you should put a question mark. (?)Simple answer: 25kV/60Hz from New Haven to Boston is new build. From New Haven to Shell Interlocking (New Rochelle NY) used to be 11kV 25Hz (as the New Haven RR built it) and was rebuilt by Metro-North and Connecticut DOT as 12kV 60Hz. From Shell to Washington Union Station (about to "A" interlocking IINM) is legacy Pennsylvania RR 11kV 25Hz wires that Amtrak never rebuilt as yet. Here's a question for you: Why are the wires out of Hoboken Terminal now 60Hz. Think you can try to find out on Google or not. |
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| (1631439) | |
Re: AMTRAK POWER ELECTRIC |
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Posted by Bill West on Tue Apr 16 22:00:12 2024, in response to AMTRACK POWER ELECTRIC, posted by Baltimorerail on Tue Apr 16 17:54:14 2024. More exactly New Rochelle to Woodside Ave at the east end of Sunnyside yard was also NYNH&H's 25hz electric system. When Metro North converted their mainline to 60hz they abandoned the problem of that line to Amtrak. As Con Ed probably wanted to be out of the 25hz supply to the NH at West Farms, Amtrak had to quickly do something so they got a 60hz supply substation built at Van Nest and converted the line. They also built their own 60hz feeder station 1/3 mile south of New Rochelle and converted the existing Bowery feeder station (1 mile east of Woodside Ave). Later the Woodside change point moved near Gate interlocking and then to the Bowery feeder station.And to just stand back a bit, the NH and PRR electrifications started as 25hz because that was the standard for industrial power at the time dating back to Niagara Falls. 60hz didn't fit traction applications until past the 1920's. The modern pressure to change is merely based on the presumption that 60hz is better. It's not entirely so, it won't save costs as readily it seems. Metro North needed to replace the worn out NH generating station at Cos Cob and went for utility power by converting the line rather than by getting frequency changers but they had to add substations because 60hz has greater voltage drops. Actually they had old Great Northern frequency changers aiding Cos Cob for a while. Amtrak just never had the money to convert the PRR and would suffer more costs without the backbone of PRR's transmission system. The cost of their ~7 frequency changer stations would be replaced by the cost of ~45 rebuilt substations PLUS new intermediate stations AND the cost of utility transmission lines to connect to them. On the Boston 60hz one of the PUC's raised Amtrak's rates because the other customers were subsidizing the cost of a substation and line built for Amtrak that it's erratic load caused to be under used. Bill |
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| (1631443) | |
Re: AMTRAK POWER ELECTRIC |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 16 23:37:48 2024, in response to Re: AMTRAK POWER ELECTRIC, posted by Bill West on Tue Apr 16 22:00:12 2024. Amtrak just never had the money to convert the PRRYes they did; they just spent it on other things. Like the extravagant electrification east/north of New Haven that could have waited and did not deliver the promised three-hour trip from NYP to BOS anyway (which is a 75-mph average speed anyhow). I'd settle for keeping the legacy voltage/frequency and just converting to constant tension, so one of the main excuses to not run the high-speed trains faster than 125 mph goes away (the other might be "Class 8 track"). |
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| (1631444) | |
Re: AMTRAK POWER ELECTRIC Four Inches |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Apr 17 02:54:41 2024, in response to Re: AMTRAK POWER ELECTRIC, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 16 23:37:48 2024. Because the Acela aisles were widened four inches but the tracks E of NH were not, the supposedlymagical tilt mechanisms had to be restricted lest passing trains "kiss" at speed.I don't have an opinion on 25hz v 60hz other than, junking first quality installed base is usually stupid. The onl real answer is that the entire NEC and associated NJ and PA routes which share trackage should be a single standard because, carrying around the otherwise superfluous hardware is a waste of purchase,maintenance, and operating $$. In a similar vein, given that apparently anewer 3rd rail shoe exists which can operate on either NYC or PRR style trackage they should be bought on any new entire MN/CDOT/LIRR fleets to enable interoperation. |
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Re: AMTRAK POWER ELECTRIC |
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Posted by Bill West on Wed Apr 17 03:56:45 2024, in response to Re: AMTRAK POWER ELECTRIC, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 16 19:38:29 2024. Good old language ambiguity, for your last line, are you asking because you don't know or are you offering to share because you do?Bill |
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| (1631446) | |
Re: AMTRAK POWER ELECTRIC Four Inches |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 17 03:57:14 2024, in response to Re: AMTRAK POWER ELECTRIC Four Inches, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Apr 17 02:54:41 2024. That's apparently a rumor spread by someone at either the former NARP or NJARP; I seem to recall the latter. Amfleet cars are 10' 6" while AE are 10' 5"; Avelias are apparently 10" 2" wide so let's see if any significant tilting happens anywhere it runs never mind just MN.I agree about having one standard, and not one easily hacked too. |
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Re: AMTRAK POWER ELECTRIC Four Inches |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Apr 17 14:08:54 2024, in response to Re: AMTRAK POWER ELECTRIC Four Inches, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 17 03:57:14 2024. The "rumor" came from Don Phillips,in my view, a respected journalist. |
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| (1631466) | |
Re: AMTRAK POWER ELECTRIC Four Inches |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 18 19:06:01 2024, in response to Re: AMTRAK POWER ELECTRIC Four Inches, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Apr 17 14:08:54 2024. Well, you should have guessed that I'm the type that doesn't typically put the words "respected" and "journalist" in the same sentence, much less right next to each other 😉 never mind Phillips himself and his association with the infamous Washington Compost 🐍I will say this, though: The New Haven's speed limit was much faster than 70 mph before (hatchet man?) McGinnis and could be again . . . |
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| (1631471) | |
Re: AMTRAK POWER ELECTRIC |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 18 22:12:21 2024, in response to Re: AMTRAK POWER ELECTRIC, posted by Bill West on Wed Apr 17 03:56:45 2024. No; it's the OP's writing style. |
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