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| Re: The M9 is a piece of crap (1591768) | |
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| (1591942) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 7 07:58:52 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 7 07:51:38 2021. Which may have also been due to their being harder on the tracks:7000 |
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| (1591943) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Dec 7 08:00:00 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 7 07:51:38 2021. Facts: The 7k issues were due to incorrect specs for wheel pressing given to a subcontractor by Kawasaki. There is no indication that the same incorrect specs were written by MTA engineers or that Kawasaki used the same subcontractor for wheel sets for M-9s. |
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| (1591944) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Dec 7 08:01:57 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 7 07:51:38 2021. Facts: The 7k issues were due to incorrect specs for wheel pressing given to a subcontractor by Kawasaki. There is no indication that the same incorrect specs were written by MTA engineers or that Kawasaki used the same subcontractor for wheel sets for M-9s. |
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| (1591945) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 7 08:05:01 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by Train Dude on Tue Dec 7 08:01:57 2021. OK fine, just saying look at a similar situation and compare specs and subcontrators. |
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| (1592009) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Tue Dec 7 17:12:32 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 7 07:58:52 2021. What the odds on this issue being fixed? Due to systemic medical issues I can’t ride for long on anything that shakes, rattles, shivers or bumps. Yeah, that means I typically don’t go anywhere, esp now that the one and only good car service vehicle is being forcible retired. That was the the air-sprung body-on-frame Lincoln Town Car.My guess is that the LIRR/MNR directors don’t really care and the some interest in fixing it as they did in spec’ing it correctly to begin with. I hope I’m wrong. |
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| (1592010) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Dec 7 17:20:15 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by Steamdriven on Tue Dec 7 17:12:32 2021. From time to time I'd come to Mineola by train & the M-7s I'd ride were rough riding clunky rattletraps . Its been awhile so I don't know if that problem has been fixed.I'd always try to get a seat amidship far away from those trucks. There you get a smoother (and quieter) ride. |
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| (1592012) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 7 17:25:19 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Dec 7 17:20:15 2021. They have noisy as hell suspension system. But their MDBF was 731,000 miles last August or September. |
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| (1592013) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Dec 7 17:35:05 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 7 17:25:19 2021. Thats the one thing about the M3s. They were quiet. |
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| (1592027) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by Jsun21 on Tue Dec 7 20:26:01 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 7 06:43:20 2021. That definitely caused a shit storm in the MTA. Pretty much everything with a Kawasaki label immediately became suspect. |
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| (1592028) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by Jsun21 on Tue Dec 7 20:27:25 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Dec 7 17:35:05 2021. Indeed, sometimes the only thing you could hear was the HVAC. Those motors were silent riders. |
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| (1592054) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Dec 8 11:16:38 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by Jsun21 on Tue Dec 7 20:27:25 2021. Why were MUs made in the 80s quieter than ones made today? Seems backwards. |
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| (1592065) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by Jsun21 on Wed Dec 8 13:37:00 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Dec 8 11:16:38 2021. DC traction motors if I had to guess. Trains now convert to AC and modulate power with an IGBT. |
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| (1592067) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Dec 8 14:08:39 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Dec 8 11:16:38 2021. I remember walking along Northern Blvd one night & a Pt Wash M7 train was stopping at the Broadway Sta. The "whistling" from the braking was loud enough to be heard for blocks. |
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| (1592074) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Dec 8 15:06:42 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Dec 8 14:08:39 2021. Yikes! |
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| (1592096) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Dec 8 19:36:52 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by Jsun21 on Wed Dec 8 13:37:00 2021. Good point. I was doing some Wikipedia, and the same thing is the case with various subway cars. The Kawasaki-built R62 with its DC motors is much quieter than the also Kawasaki-built R142A with its AC motors even though the R142A was built over 10 years later. I'll have to do some more research on why AC Motors are preferred these days with that being said. |
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| (1592100) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Wed Dec 8 22:49:49 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Dec 8 19:36:52 2021. I think AC motors are easier to maintain and have reduced maintenance cost. |
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| (1592108) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 9 06:12:46 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Wed Dec 8 22:49:49 2021. Better in snow ? |
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| (1592113) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by Train Dude on Thu Dec 9 07:16:55 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Wed Dec 8 22:49:49 2021. Induction motors provide more torque and HP per pound. They also do not require brush changing as DC motors do. Having sealed cases makes them more reliable in wet weather. |
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| (1592118) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Dec 9 08:33:40 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by Train Dude on Thu Dec 9 07:16:55 2021. Induction motors provide more torque and HP per pound. They also do not require brush changing as DC motors do. Having sealed cases makes them more reliable in wet weather.Thank you for that information. |
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| (1592173) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Dec 10 11:15:52 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by Nasadowsk on Sun Dec 5 14:14:12 2021. That would explain why Pioneer III isn't that popular. |
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| (1592204) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Dec 10 17:05:12 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by 3-9 on Fri Dec 10 11:15:52 2021. If the Pioneer III truck was so robust, whey wasn’t it used on the R-46s instead of the Rockwell truck? |
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| (1592205) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by Ian Lennon on Fri Dec 10 17:18:22 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by randyo on Fri Dec 10 17:05:12 2021. Not sure how that would have worked being built by Pullman Standard. If Budd had built them, they most likely would have been on Pioneer III's. |
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| (1592222) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Dec 10 22:14:05 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by AlM on Mon Dec 6 12:35:41 2021. Wouldn't that also have meant paying an MTA tax? That would have been a disincentive. |
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| (1592223) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Dec 10 22:19:52 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by 3-9 on Fri Dec 10 22:14:05 2021. They already pay MTA taxes in Dutchess County. It’s part of the MCTD. |
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| (1592240) | |
Re: The M9 is a piece of crap |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sat Dec 11 02:39:28 2021, in response to Re: The M9 is a piece of crap, posted by randyo on Fri Dec 10 17:05:12 2021. I would think it was also because NYCTA was a believer in heavyweight trucks. Otherwise, didn't the Silverliners starting from II and the Jersey Arrows use Pioneer III? Aside from the first generations, those cars had pretty good careers. |
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