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| Triva question - Brooklyn service (1588141) | |
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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Oct 20 18:08:12 2021, in response to Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Allan on Wed Oct 20 16:50:29 2021. Brighton Local: QT/QB until 1967, then QJ/QB 1967-73, then M/QB, 1973-86, then D 1986-2001, then Q 2001-present. Also D/Q skip-stop 1986-88.If you want to include the express, then Q until 1967, D 1967-86, none 1986-88, Q (orange) 1988-01, Q diamond 2001-04, B 2004-present. |
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| (1588150) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by Kevin from Midwood on Wed Oct 20 19:31:31 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Oct 20 18:08:12 2021. If you count local and express, it's hard to believe the Brighton Line would top the 4th Avenue Line owing to convergence. I'll leave the details to others, but route letters off the top of my head: B, D, M, N, NX, R, RJ, RR, T, TT, W (also J in the wake of 9/11, though forced temporary changes shouldn't count). |
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| (1588155) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by zac on Wed Oct 20 22:30:29 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Oct 20 18:08:12 2021. You didn't include the Franklin routes. There were so many variations in service. Summer Sunday specials, Saturday Franklin locals. Nor did you include the M - Nassau St Express and whatever variations it had.Then there was also the Q - 6th Ave/Wash Hghts that replaced the A. |
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| (1588166) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Oct 21 07:24:44 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by zac on Wed Oct 20 22:30:29 2021. Did the Franklin "shuttle" get extended as the SS or as something else? |
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| (1588171) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 21 08:16:08 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Oct 21 07:24:44 2021. It was way before Chrytsie, and used BMT Standards, which had no route letters or numbers. |
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| (1588178) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Oct 21 10:47:35 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by zac on Wed Oct 20 22:30:29 2021. I didn’t include that since I’m not sure of the details, so I basically started with 1967. |
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| (1588179) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Oct 21 10:48:11 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by zac on Wed Oct 20 22:30:29 2021. And I did include the M. |
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| (1588182) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by zac on Thu Oct 21 11:02:58 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Oct 21 10:48:11 2021. But that was the later Metro to CI run. Pre-Chrystie the M was the banker's special and was only signed that way on the R32s. Otherwise either a triplex or standard ran that route.We can put it this way, every variation from CI and BB to every northern terminal both express and local and BMT and IND ran on the Brighton line at some point or another! |
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| (1588185) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by zac on Thu Oct 21 11:08:20 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 21 08:16:08 2021. I've seen pics on NYCSubway.org of the Triplexes signed as the 7-Franklin running as Saturday locals too. |
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| (1588186) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Oct 21 11:17:03 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by zac on Thu Oct 21 11:08:20 2021. The R-11(34s) also displayed "7 FRANKLIN" |
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| (1588191) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Oct 21 12:06:47 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by zac on Thu Oct 21 11:02:58 2021. Fascinating. |
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| (1588211) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Oct 21 15:57:05 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by zac on Thu Oct 21 11:02:58 2021. Was there ever regular Brighton service beyond Forest Hills (to 179)? |
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| (1588220) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by zac on Thu Oct 21 18:56:33 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Oct 21 15:57:05 2021. I don't think so. The original trains through were Brighton Locals to Continental. The R train ran through to 179th at some point to allow for F express service after the E was sent to Parsons/Archer but that was cut back pretty quickly. I know for a fact that it went to both 207th and 205th, 207th only after the asbestos issue on 8th Ave.I don't know of any regular service to Canarsie either, although a late QJ may have been sent there. From what I can remember: Park Row Sands St. Franklin Atlantic Center (overnight work) Chambers/Loop Metropolitan 168th St/Jamaica 42nd/Times Square 57th/7th 57th/6th 21st/Queensbridge Queensboro Plaza Astoria 145th BPB 205th 207th Any others? |
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| (1588222) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by Allan on Thu Oct 21 19:01:57 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Oct 21 15:57:05 2021. None that I can think of.Prior to Chystie Street IND was, well, IND and the F terminated at 34 St-Herald Square while the D ran on the Culver to Coney Island. After Chrystie St the 'borders' fell and the D ran on the Brighton while the F took over Culver. That would be an interesting service, send the F down Brighton and put the B on Culver. |
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| (1588223) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Oct 21 19:03:33 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by zac on Thu Oct 21 18:56:33 2021. The only time Broadway service went beyond Forest Hills was for a 4 year stretch between 1988 and 1992. Until 1990 it ran there 24/7, after it was cut back to rush hour only. It was highly unpopular with Hillside Ave local station riders. |
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| (1588224) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Oct 21 19:14:26 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Allan on Thu Oct 21 19:01:57 2021. 53rd st connects to the local tracks only and Christie only to the express. That basically forces the Queens trains onto the Culver line and the UWS express trains over the bridge. |
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| (1588227) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by Allan on Thu Oct 21 19:31:30 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Oct 21 19:14:26 2021. True.ut prior to Chrystie there was quite a bottleneck north of 34th St with the southbound F trains having to cross over to the 2 middle (express) tracks at 34 St to terminate and the D having to cross over to the local tracks to continue over the Houston St route into Brooklyn and over Culver. And, of course the same happened in reverse going uptown. With the opening of Chrytie and the opening of the express tracks from 34 St to W4 St it allowed for a better routing (B & D trains invading BMT territory and F over Culver) and service levels through 34 St. |
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| (1588229) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by zac on Thu Oct 21 19:56:38 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Allan on Thu Oct 21 19:31:30 2021. The F ran through to either Bway/Laf or 2nd Ave weekdays. The BB terminated at 34th St/6th in rush hours, or at least that's how it was in the years leading up to Chrystie opening. |
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| (1588246) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by gbs on Fri Oct 22 03:14:00 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Allan on Thu Oct 21 19:31:30 2021. prior to Chrystie there was quite a bottleneck north of 34th St Why didn't they have the F run to Brooklyn and the D terminate at 34 St? Did they feel there more Bronx riders who wanted to go to Brooklyn than Queens riders who wanted to? My guess is that most of the Brooklyn riders went to and from Manhattan, and not to or from the Bronx or Queens. |
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| (1588248) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Oct 22 07:21:10 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 21 08:16:08 2021. I remember when they used Low Vs with platform extenders on the Brighton Franklin weekend service before they were replaced with Standards. |
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| (1588249) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Fri Oct 22 07:47:55 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by gbs on Fri Oct 22 03:14:00 2021. It was envisioned even going back to Mayor Hylan's idea for the planning of the IND was to have a subway route in operation for a one-seat ride between the Bronx and Coney Island. That included the city trying to recapture the Culver elevated line away from the BMT."F" trains since their December 15, 1940 inception in service had been operated to and from Church Avenue, while the "D" was to and from Chambers Street-Hudson Terminal. With later unification and finally track connections completed literally by 12:00 noon on Saturday, October 30, 1954, Hylan's vision and dream finally came, by also swapping the "F" from Queens with the "D" from the Bronx. The "F" would take over when Chrystie Street opened, and the "D" went to the Brighton Line instead. And so it goes... Coney Island-Stillwell Avenue; October 30, 1954; Photos by Brian J. Cudahy.   -William A. Padron ["<-Coney Island-<"] |
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| (1588267) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Oct 22 13:40:32 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Oct 21 19:14:26 2021. But 63rd connects to the express tracks.Though of course that's not helpful if CPW only connects with the express tracks. |
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| (1588269) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by Allan on Fri Oct 22 14:05:46 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by AlM on Fri Oct 22 13:40:32 2021. "But 63rd connects to the express tracks."Yes, but only on the Broadway line (Q). On the 6 Av line (F) it connects to the local tracks north of 47-50 Sts (although the switch also can connect to the B/D tracks). |
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| (1588293) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 22 17:04:07 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Oct 20 18:08:12 2021. Also, the initial switch between the "D" and the "QJ", from Brighton Beach and Coney Island! The "D" originally ran to Coney Island and the "QJ" went to Brighton Beach. |
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| (1588296) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Oct 22 17:23:30 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 22 17:04:07 2021. When the D and QJ swapped, did the QB run out of Coney Island as well ? |
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| (1588309) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Oct 22 20:25:07 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Joe V on Fri Oct 22 17:23:30 2021. Yes, the QB ran all the way to Coney Island as well. They realized that every train had to switch tracks at Brighton Beach, which led to delays. |
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| (1588312) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri Oct 22 22:53:38 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Oct 22 20:25:07 2021. I guess the |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Oct 23 10:28:57 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri Oct 22 22:53:38 2021. It could be that since the D had terminated at Coney Island 24/7 prior to Chrystie St., they wanted to keep the status quo. Then they must have realized that prior to Chrystie St., the D had the Culver all to itself, and now it shared the Brighton line with two other lines, one of which ran only during rush hours. Service on the Brighton line wasn't broken prior to Chrystie St., but the TA tried to fix it, anyway. |
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| (1588336) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat Oct 23 12:05:29 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Oct 23 10:28:57 2021. Yep. For a change, I can't blame MTA for that, as they did not come into existence until the following year (1968). |
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| (1588350) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by subfan on Sat Oct 23 14:32:48 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Allan on Fri Oct 22 14:05:46 2021. No, it actually connects to both the local and express tracks equally at 50th/6th. It comes in between the local and express, with a switch to either (and a stub straight ahead). The 6th Ave Q used this regularly for years fro 21st/Queensbridge.subfan |
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Posted by subfan on Sat Oct 23 14:38:37 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by gbs on Fri Oct 22 03:14:00 2021. The main reason was that they wanted 11 car trains on the Queens Blvd line, and the "recaptured" Culver El stations could only handle ten-car trains. Therefore, rather than cut the Fbto ten cars, they swapped the D and F, since ten cars was considered all that was necessary for the D.subfan |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Oct 23 14:44:29 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Oct 23 10:28:57 2021. Brighton Line passengers were pissed they lost Broadway service. |
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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Oct 23 15:25:14 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by subfan on Sat Oct 23 14:32:48 2021. Subfan is correct! |
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Posted by gbs on Sat Oct 23 21:31:48 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by subfan on Sat Oct 23 14:38:37 2021. the "recaptured" Culver El stations could only handle ten-car trains But they had to be lengthened to handle 10 cars, right? BMT stations were famously less than 600' (and still are in the east). Were they lengthened prior to 1954 in anticipation of 10-car IND trains? |
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| (1588456) | |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Oct 24 10:05:45 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Oct 23 14:44:29 2021. They were indeed. |
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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Oct 24 10:06:38 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat Oct 23 12:05:29 2021. The NYCTA came into being in 1953, followed by the MTA in '68. |
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| (1588465) | |
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Posted by zac on Sun Oct 24 11:50:47 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Oct 24 10:05:45 2021. And the QB was not a good substitute. 7 trains in the peak direction in rush hours and that was it. |
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| (1588467) | |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Oct 24 12:04:27 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by zac on Sun Oct 24 11:50:47 2021. And that's if cars were available. There were PM rush hours when only 2 QB's would run: the 2 from Astoria which upon arrival at STL, would lay up to 59th St. Middle for the next days RR service. |
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| (1588468) | |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Oct 24 12:04:29 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by zac on Sun Oct 24 11:50:47 2021. And that's if cars were available. There were PM rush hours when only 2 QB's would run: the 2 from Astoria which upon arrival at STL, would lay up to 59th St. Middle for the next days RR service. |
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| (1588469) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by subfan on Sun Oct 24 12:21:36 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by gbs on Sat Oct 23 21:31:48 2021. That I'm not sure about - sorry.subfan |
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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by bzuck on Sun Oct 24 21:39:41 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by zac on Sun Oct 24 11:50:47 2021. I thought it was only five trains. |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Oct 24 21:58:54 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by zac on Sun Oct 24 11:50:47 2021. Wow, I was lucky to get one when I did a "ride all the lines" fantrip in August 1976, shortly before I moved to LA. At least if I ever do another one (which I have planned if/when I ever get back to NYC), I won't have to worry about rush-hour only lines (in 1976, I had 3 to worry about: CC, K, QB. I got the QB and K in relatively quickly, the CC I was worried about as it was getting close to 9:30 AM, which was more or less when the AM rush ended. Fortunately I was on an A or a D on the "dash" and passed a CC around 110th or 116th so was able to get it with time to spare) 🙂 |
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| (1588522) | |
Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by zac on Sun Oct 24 22:18:08 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by bzuck on Sun Oct 24 21:39:41 2021. It was 5 at the beginning and then increased to 7. I don't know the exact schedule, but we all did back in the day. I think it was 10 or 12 minute headways, with alternate trains being QJ, with the D as the express. |
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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Oct 25 01:37:51 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by subfan on Sat Oct 23 14:38:37 2021. Actually, the scuttlebutt in the schedule office was that the TA wanted passengers from upper Manhattan and the Bronx to get a one seat ride to Coney Island which would not have been possible if the F was sent there. |
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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Oct 25 01:41:33 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by gbs on Sat Oct 23 21:31:48 2021. It would still have been possible to run11 cars via the Culver because at the time there were 2 C/Rs and all that would have been necessary would have been to have the rear C/R keep the 11th car closed at those stations and have the passengers walk through to the 10th car. At that time similar operations took place on the IRT at stations that had not yet been lengthened so it would have been relatively normal. |
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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Oct 25 02:18:51 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Oct 24 12:04:27 2021. When I was a T/D in the 1970s, the instructions were if a QB went bad on the stand, a QJ was supposed to be signed up and used in QB service and a QJ interval dropped. The same was for RR Nassaus at 95 St. If an RR Nassau went bad on the stand, a Bway RR was to be signed up and used in Nassau service. |
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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by subfan on Mon Oct 25 02:46:57 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by randyo on Mon Oct 25 01:37:51 2021. That could be another reason - I'd heard about the 11-car issue as a reason, but not necessarily the only one.subfan |
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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by subfan on Mon Oct 25 02:49:26 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by randyo on Mon Oct 25 01:41:33 2021. Not sure if that would have been ideal, though, as that would have effectively meant that the last car would not open at any station after Church - and that's a pretty significant chunk of the line.subfan |
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Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Oct 25 06:43:22 2021, in response to Re: Triva question - Brooklyn service, posted by bzuck on Sun Oct 24 21:39:41 2021. I thought it was only five trains. It was on Monday, November 27, 1967. Northbound QB trains left Brighton Beach at 742,754,806,818 and 829 AM. Southbound QB trains left 57/7 at 445,457,509,517 and 529 PM. Due to passenger demand two more AM and one PM trains were added within a short time. The AM trains left BB at 718 and 730 AM. The extra PM train left 57/7 at 433 PM. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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