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| Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 (1581978) | |
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| (1581978) | |
Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Aug 4 07:31:27 2021 Tuscarora Almanac – August 4, 1892 – The Book of First Runs Palenville, New York Otis Elevating Railway The Otis Elevating Railway, a cable hauled incline begins operation on the Katerskill High Peak. The railway is 7000 feet long and runs from Otis Junction, just north of the village of Palenville up the mountain to the Catskill Mountain Station adjacent to the famous Catskill Mountain House. There is a vertical rise of 1600 feet. During the 1903-1904 seasons the route was shorted by cutting back the base station about 1700 feet. This allowed a direct track connection to the Catskill Mountain Railroad. Baggage cars could be interchanged between the two lines. Passengers still had to transfer. The last season for this line was 1918. Most of the ROW is still visible. Source: “Rip Van Winkle Railroads” ( Black Dome Press / 1999) by Mr. William F. Helmer Tuscarora Almanac – August 4, 1913 – The Book of First Runs Manhattan, New York Brooklyn Rapid Transit Company The Centre Street subway is extended from Essex Street to Chambers Street. New stations are opened at Bowery, Canal Street and Chambers Street. Service will be provided by Broadway-Brooklyn trains operating over the Williamsburg Bridge. Source: New York Division Bulletin /July-August 1959, article by Mr. David Rogoff Tuscarora Almanac - August 4, 1952 - The Book of Last Runs The Bronx, New York New York City Board of Transportation IRT Division Train service ended today on the section of the IRT West Farms Line between 180th Street - Bronx Park and East Tremont Avenue. Source: New York Division Bulletin /April 1964 Tuscarora Almanac – August 4, 1954 – The Book of Last Runs Brooklyn, New York New York City Transit Authority BMT Division The “Zephyr” is permanently withdrawn from service. It had spent the last several years on the Franklin Avenue Shuttle. This is a five section articulated stainless steel car built by the Budd Company. It is numbered 7002A-8002B-9001C-8003B-7003A. The unit was renumbered in 1937 to 7029 A-B-C-B1-A1. Source: New York Division Bulletin /June 1971, article by Mr. Bernard Linder “New York Subways (John Hopkins/1997) by Mr. Gene Sansone Tuscarora Almanac – August 4, 1967 – The Book of Last Runs Waterloo, Iowa Illinois Central Railroad The “Land O’Corn”, train nos. 13 & 14 running between Chicago and Waterloo, Iowa is discontinued. Source: “Illinois Central Through Passenger Service in Color” (Morning Sun Books /2016) by Mr. Greg Stout Tuscarora Almanac - August 4, 1969 - The Book of Last Runs Brooklyn, New York New York City Transit Authority BMT Division This is the last day of operation the 67 foot Standards. The fleet was once 950 cars strong and dominated the rapid transit lines of the Brooklyn - Manhattan Transit Company. The last train ran on the “M” Myrtle Avenue-Nassau St Line (BMT Rt.10) leaving Metropolitan Avenue at 4:49 PM and Broad Street at 5:26 PM. The train consisted of two “B” Type three car units, (S) 2531-2-3, 2466-2649-2467. Source: New York Division Bulletin /August 1969 Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1581979) | |
[PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Aug 4 09:32:00 2021, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for August 4, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Aug 4 07:31:27 2021. This is a five section articulated stainless steel car built by the Budd Company. It is numbered 7002A-8002B-9001C-8003B-7003A. The unit was renumbered in 1937 to 7029 A-B-C-B1-A1. Franklin Ave  Dean St  Approaching Prospect Park 
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| (1581980) | |
[PHOTO] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Aug 4 09:48:45 2021, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for August 4, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Aug 4 07:31:27 2021. The fleet was once 950 cars strong and dominated the rapid transit lines of the Brooklyn - Manhattan Transit Company. The last train ran on the “M” Myrtle Avenue-Nassau St Line (BMT Rt.10) leaving Metropolitan Avenue at 4:49 PM and Broad Street at 5:26 PM. The train consisted of two “B” Type three car units, (S) 2531-2-3, 2466-2649-2467. End of an era at Metropolitan Ave 
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| (1582005) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Aug 4 18:56:19 2021, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Aug 4 09:48:45 2021. Two Moes for the price of one. |
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| (1582006) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Aug 4 18:57:47 2021, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for August 4, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Aug 4 07:31:27 2021. I heard that was the last operable set of standards available. |
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| (1582008) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Wed Aug 4 20:15:19 2021, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for August 4, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Aug 4 07:31:27 2021. it should be noted that the LIRR`S MP41`s began using the chambers st.station also. |
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| (1582015) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Aug 5 02:01:43 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Aug 4 18:57:47 2021. That was probably the same consist I operated 2 months earlier on the 14 St Line. |
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| (1582018) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Aug 5 08:10:00 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4, posted by TUNNELRAT on Wed Aug 4 20:15:19 2021. When? How? Route? |
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| (1582024) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Aug 5 12:38:30 2021, in response to [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Aug 4 09:32:00 2021. Thanks. The ;last photo already shows a fair bit of litter on the tracks- WAY back when! |
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| (1582025) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Aug 5 12:39:02 2021, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Aug 4 09:48:45 2021. Do you know if that photo was taken on the very last day- or just near the end? |
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| (1582042) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Aug 5 16:51:53 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Aug 5 12:39:02 2021. Do you know if that photo was taken on the very last day- or just near the end?That was the last day as well as the last train of Standards in service. Bill Newkirk |
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| (1582044) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Aug 5 16:53:47 2021, in response to [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Aug 4 09:32:00 2021. I love the body style of these cars.This is the Ideal Form subway car shells should have utilized. The body side walls, windows and doors placement could have been modified to what we have today.. Reminds me of TTC "H and T" rolling stock models.. As I understand it,the cars that came closest to that style cannot operate through some tunnels because of some engineers idea of what the ideal subway car is supposed to look like(narrower at the top above the beltline...nowing out..then sliming to the chassis. No straight sides...only tapered cars. Whatever. |
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| (1582060) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Aug 5 18:18:23 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4, posted by Edwards! on Thu Aug 5 16:53:47 2021. I love the body style of these cars.I guess you can say boxy, but beautiful. Bill Newkirk |
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| (1582067) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Aug 5 19:40:44 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4, posted by randyo on Thu Aug 5 02:01:43 2021. I rode on the Lonesome Larry on June 7, 1969, the last day of Saturday School for the 1968-69 school year. Can't remember the consists, though. |
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| (1582077) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 |
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Posted by Joe on Thu Aug 5 21:44:23 2021, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for August 4, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Aug 4 07:31:27 2021. I bet the number of seats in the Zephyr and the available standing room totaled double the capacity of the two cars in current service on the Franklin shuttle. |
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| (1582087) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Aug 5 23:52:52 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Aug 5 18:18:23 2021. Yup.Honestly,I feel some kinda way. I guess there will never be any other non tapered subway cars within the B Division,outside of museum stock. That's okay. As long as I can get from A to B...with a layover C perhaps..I'm good. However, the 179s are Still having fits. |
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| (1582090) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Aug 6 03:20:01 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Aug 5 19:40:44 2021. They had Saturday school back then? I went to school a few years later and that was I guess eliminated by then (early-mid '70s). |
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| (1582109) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Aug 6 14:38:33 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4, posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Aug 6 03:20:01 2021. This was Lithuanian Saturday School in Brooklyn. Classes were held at Annunciation Parish School. |
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| (1582112) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Aug 6 15:23:19 2021, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for August 4, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Aug 4 07:31:27 2021. Twenty years of service from a one-of-a-kind train. Was the Zephyr built better than the Green Hornet, or were parts for it easier to get? |
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| (1582120) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Aug 6 16:36:46 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4, posted by Avid Reader on Thu Aug 5 08:10:00 2021. VIA THE CHESTNUT ST. INCLINE OVER THE BROADWAY EL INTO THE CENTRE ST. SUBWAY. |
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| (1582130) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Aug 6 19:09:17 2021, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4, posted by Edwards! on Thu Aug 5 16:53:47 2021. As I have mentioned before in several posts, Budd submitted a design to the B of T for a stainless steel R-9 and I wonder if it wouldn’t have looked something like a 60 ft long version of the Zephyr. |
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| (1582131) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Aug 6 19:19:08 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Aug 6 15:23:19 2021. As I understand it, the Hornet was actually more compatible with the production Multis than the Zephyr. As a result, the BMT and later the B of T held the Hornet out of service pending the delivery of drawheads to enable it to be included in the Multi roster. WWII intervened and when US Govt inspectors discovered the Hornet in dead storage it confiscated it for the aluminum in its construction on the premise that since the city was able do do without it that long, it didn’t need it at all. |
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| (1582161) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Aug 7 13:10:28 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4, posted by randyo on Fri Aug 6 19:19:08 2021. I heard that it broke down in service and awaiting replacement parts. If not, why keep it in dead storage, pending the arrival of those drawheads, which would probably not be available due to WWII? |
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| (1582194) | |
Re: EXclusive! Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 Text and Photos LIRR MP-41 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sun Aug 8 09:55:23 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4, posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Aug 6 16:36:46 2021. Where are they     .jpg) This was a BRT-style coupler, as these MP41 cars were built to run in joint LIRR/BRT operation (which ended in 1917) and were even nicknamed "Gibbs Cars" after the guy who designed the similar electric passenger cars for the BRT. After purchasing a bunch of these cars in 1905 for operation in newly-electrified territory, the LIRR purchased new MP54 cars in 1909-10. The shorter, MP41 cars were eventually relegated to rapid-transit service along the Atlantic branch and the longer and newer MP54 cars were used in the rest of electrified territory. I've never seen the coupler pushed over to one side like that. The last two MP41 cars to see LIRR service (#'s 1100, 1101) were used on the Mitchel Field Shuttle into the late 1940s, when they were replaced by two MP54 cars. (See image above from 1908 and note the coupler.) Archive/Info: Dave Keller  MP41 convertible third rail shoe from the LIRR to the BMT  The MP-41's were nearly exactly the same cars as the IRT Gibbs cars. "The first steel LIRR 1907-8 built "MU Cars" were really exact carbody copies of the earlier 1903-4 built IRT "Gibbs" Hi-V Cars...and were classified by the LIRR as MP-41 cars. They were the SAME size (8'10" wide x 51' long) as the IRT Gibbs cars, because the LIRR and IRT had designs on some joint operation between IRT and LIRR routes. This never came to happen. They could MU and train Line with IRT cars technically...but unlike the IRT cars, the LIRR cars were built with end traps and stepwells and the trucks had a modified form of "cowcatcher" on their end facing ends, and of course, along with the IRT style roof marker lights...the LIRR cars ALSO used a center headlight...originally an IRT EL "elevated type" headlight unit, and that was later replaced by the 1915-18 era by the standard LIRR Box Headlight common to the wider and longer, later LIRR MP-54 cars, on the roof. These LIRR cars, also unlike their IRT mates, lived their lives WITHOUT a center door added, and kept their Vand Dorn Link & Pin couplers throughout their service life...1908 thru 1955-6, unlike the IRT subway cars, whose were replaced about 1910-15. The LIRR and IRT "Gibbs" class and designed cars started out with very slight modified version of Manhattan Elevated Car "Manhattan" seating...and LIRR cars retained it thru their entire lives. The center cross seat on the IRT Gibbs were removed by 1908-10 for installation of the center side doors...thus retaining only their wall bench seats. They both also had end vestibule-bulkhead twin sliding doors, which closed off the entire vestibule platform on the motorman-operating end, to the motorman. The LIRR Steel Gibbs cars, being IRT Subway and El, and BMT EL car widths (almost 9")...did run to Manhattan via the BMT El's and Brooklyn Bridge, as well as to Delancey Street on the Broadway Brooklyn BMT EL under joint BRT-LIRR operation. however, they never ran on the IRT subway in revenue service, tho the IRT-LIRR connection was in place at their joint Atlantic Avenue stations for a few (the first early) years. When the LIRR started operation (about 1912-14) of their new, longer and wider MP-54's, which had MCB Knuckle Couplers, the LIRR MP-41 Gibbs cars eventally had all their end vestibule hinged platform traps replaced with wider traps that protruded outward alomost 6" from the carbody side end doors and car sides when lowered to meet the vestibule floors. This was to allow these cars to operate on lines with the new wider cars, and close up the platform gap clearances used for operating the major fleet of LIRR wider body Fleet of MP-54. The BRT was incorporated January 18,1896 Brooklyn Daily Eagle page one. July 17th, 1898 saw the first joint service between the Brooklyn Elevated Railway and the LIRR. The Chestnut Street incline opened connecting the Broadway - Brooklyn El to the LIRR at Atlantic Avenue and Rockaway Avenue. El trains ran through to Rockaway Park. On October 4th, LIRR Ferry to Jamaica using the incline. This service lasted only three months, ending January 10th, 1899. |
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| (1582200) | |
Re: EXclusive! Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 Text and Photos LIRR MP-41 |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Sun Aug 8 10:34:31 2021, in response to Re: EXclusive! Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 Text and Photos LIRR MP-41, posted by Avid Reader on Sun Aug 8 09:55:23 2021. The first photo posted is on the IRT #1/#2/#3 line at Chambers Street and West Broadway though.-William A. Padron ["Chmbrs"] |
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| (1582201) | |
Re: EXclusive! Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 Text and Photos LIRR MP-41 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sun Aug 8 10:39:43 2021, in response to Re: EXclusive! Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 Text and Photos LIRR MP-41, posted by Avid Reader on Sun Aug 8 09:55:23 2021. I should have immediately noticed the columns were not incased and tiled over.My bad. |
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| (1582219) | |
Re: EXclusive! Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 Text and Photos LIRR MP-41 |
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Posted by VictorM on Sun Aug 8 17:10:05 2021, in response to Re: EXclusive! Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 Text and Photos LIRR MP-41, posted by Avid Reader on Sun Aug 8 09:55:23 2021. Thanks for posting, but that third photo probably shows Grand Central, not Chambers St. There are no double slip switches at Chambers St and it shows an under riding third rail. |
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| (1582239) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Aug 9 01:19:59 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for August 4, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Aug 7 13:10:28 2021. That could be something also added to the mix. The spare parts needed to keep the Hornet running even without the drawheads may have contributed to its being held out of service. |
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| (1582242) | |
Re: EXclusive! Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 Text and Photos LIRR MP-41 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Aug 9 01:48:43 2021, in response to Re: EXclusive! Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 Text and Photos LIRR MP-41, posted by Avid Reader on Sun Aug 8 09:55:23 2021. The reason for the MP41s having Van Dorn couplers like the Gibbs cars and the BRT el cars was because that was state of the art for electric MU vars at the time. As newer drawheads likr the J type were develope, the existing IRT fleet was retrofitted with them and after the deck roofers, the next order of Hi-Vs, the Hedleys had them as original equipment. As for the MP-41s being technically able to MU with the Gibbs, that was not the case as the MP-41s had the WH controller similar to but not identical to the later LIRR equipment and most likely utilized a low voltage control system with automatic acceleration. The Gibbs cars had GE high voltage controls with manual acceleration and the two were not compatible. |
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| (1582258) | |
Re: EXclusive! Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 Text and Photos LIRR MP-41 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Mon Aug 9 09:08:24 2021, in response to Re: EXclusive! Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 Text and Photos LIRR MP-41, posted by VictorM on Sun Aug 8 17:10:05 2021. and it shows an under riding third rail. You're right! |
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| (1582297) | |
Re: EXclusive! Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 Text and Photos LIRR MP-41 |
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Posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Mon Aug 9 18:36:40 2021, in response to Re: EXclusive! Tuscarora Almanac for August 4 Text and Photos LIRR MP-41, posted by Avid Reader on Sun Aug 8 09:55:23 2021. Hello Guys -- Some CORRECTIONS about the posting above stating "The LIRR MP-41 cars and IRT Gibbs Hi-V Cars could "technically" MU together. That is incorrect -- see below -- Jeff Hackner (aka "Jeff H" here long ago) wrote me back in 2005 about the MP-41 and IRT Gibbs control and coupler differences - his copy-pasted comments below (quoted) ...."Joe, The MP-41s had Westinghouse type AB control with 7 point jumpers and 14 volt battery. That would have been compatible with the BRT gate cars but not any of the IRT equipment, which was all high-voltage GE Type "M" at this time in history..." ...... and ...."Joe, The IRT and BRT both used Van Dorn couplers at this time. Later (post-1912) the IRT began to switch over to tight-lock automatic style "J" couplers. My data on the MP-41 indicate it used a Tomlinson style coupler, and would not have been compatible with either IRT or BRT rolling stock, although an adapter could have been used...." Now, what I (Joe F) myself know is that the first couplers on the LIRR MP-41 Gibbs cars when brand new, delivered, were in fact, Van Dorn Link and Pin types just as used on the first IRT Subway Cars and IRT EL Gate Cars. Complete with the dual heavy steel safety "joiner chains" between cars in event a VD coupler link or pin snapped (broke). Chains would keep cars attached together and not rip apart air hoses. The LIRR soon changed over to safer Tomlinson Radial Couplers -- a heavier and more automatic type coupler -- eliminating the safety "backup" chains. Also, re: Gibbs cars operating on IRT subway lines -- some slight clearance problems were discovered, because of the following info provided by Nate G (aka formerly "Bronx Boy" here) who asked me to submit it here at sub chat: ...."Joe, would you kindly post this below for me on sub chat.".... ...." What all this sub chat posted information fails to say is the MP41’s trucks were mounted a bit further inboard to clear the drop steps at the end vestibules. And the end pilot grill. Because of this the cars would not be able to run on the IRT as they would not clear the curves at various locations. If they were able to the IRT would have purchased them and modified them to use on their lines. The LIRR really did not want them, once they changed to the wider longer MP-54 MU Cars. The cost of moving the trucks, kingpins and body bolsters forward to the IRT wheelbase positions and the electrical, brake, air and other things were just too expensive and not practical.."...... regards - Joe F |
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