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| Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries (1573711) | |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 21 01:55:05 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries, posted by Jsun21 on Tue Apr 20 20:06:43 2021. My understanding is H is more volatile, for example if you were to drop a match in Jet Fuel or Kerosene it wouldn't light. Hydrogen will be more easily ignitedThat's not what "volatile" means. The word refers to any liquid that evaporates at ambient temperatures, regardless of flammability. Water is moderately volatile, but clearly not flammable. Hydrogen will never be a liquid at ambient temperatures, its boiling point being way down at –423.2°F. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 21 01:57:10 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries, posted by sloth on Wed Apr 21 01:18:27 2021. I don't understand what happened. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 21 01:59:50 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by The silence on Wed Apr 21 00:09:52 2021. I think LIRR MUs run about 2K miles per week and a million per decade. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Apr 21 02:38:20 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 20 16:56:03 2021. Correct. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 21 06:34:30 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Apr 20 22:30:11 2021. Making an issue out of FRA cab inspectins is only something that NJT does to cover their stupid equipment policies. If that were an isssue, all the M-7's, M-8's, and M-9's would be triplets, not married pairs. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Dave on Wed Apr 21 06:59:14 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 21 01:44:29 2021. No, accurate words. Two different drivers in the same car will drive differently. One may use the AC, the other may not. One has a heavier foot than the other. One plays the radio, the other does not. It's no different than a conventional car driven by two drivers - each will achieve different mpg based on the way they drive. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 21 07:55:37 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by pragmatist on Tue Apr 20 20:06:54 2021. 48/49 south of Albany is an 8 car train (4 coach, 1 diner, 2 sleeepr, 1 baggage). |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 21 07:58:21 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by Dave on Wed Apr 21 06:59:14 2021. Now we are talking about a 67 ton rail car, and a 6 - 12 car train. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by pragmatist on Wed Apr 21 08:32:03 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by pragmatist on Tue Apr 20 20:06:54 2021. In my post, I mentioned that it pulled the whole Lake when the construction at Albany was going on. The Boston passengers did a cross platform transfer and the trains were not joined. The Boston sleeper, coaches, and the cafe car went to NYP during that time period. I don't remember if they hauled the second baggage, back then the Boston section had one. This was not a short term event, it went on for quite a while. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Apr 21 08:39:35 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 21 01:45:52 2021. Like I said a few posts ago. Electrification should be on a case by case basis. Croton-Harmon/Poughkeepsie is basically flat terrain, aka water level route. Acceleration rates are a non issue on that line. The reliable and comfortable equipment coupled with a superior on time performance results in minimal complaints. Nobody is (was) whining wa wa wa wheres our 3d rail??On the Harlem line, theres a big uphill pull from NWP to Chappaqua & stations were closer together. 3d rail was justified there. Same with the Pt Jefferson line. That branch is the closest to mountain railroading with its hills & closer together stations. That coupled with that crap they use as "reliable and comfortable" commuter equipment there begs for 3d rail to be installed there. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 21 09:03:31 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Apr 21 08:39:35 2021. I agree with you. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 21 09:06:46 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 20 21:02:12 2021. It is a very general term to mean bi-directional. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 21 09:43:07 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 20 21:20:20 2021. According to LIRR Today, Ronkonkmoam eletrifiction in present value dollars cost $15.5 million. Upcoming Central Branch electrification, which is next to useless for any passenger, will cost $22.4 million.But Eng keeps saying electrying everything (169 more miles) would cost $17 Billion ($100 million/mile). The guy is a fool. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by pragmatist on Wed Apr 21 09:54:39 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 21 09:43:07 2021. The low height of the 63rd st tunnel really puts a monkey wrench in some alternatives. The M-8 cars (proven design, good track record)can do cat and third rail, building with over-running shoes is easy, and cat would be considerably less expensive capital cost wise (albeit with slightly higher ongoing maintenance costs) but will never do ESA, the cabinets/pans make them too tall. They cost more than a stock M-7 or M-9, but after the battery mods and charging infrastructure probably not. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Apr 21 10:04:39 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries, posted by randyo on Tue Apr 20 01:58:16 2021. That's the way automobiles worked for about 100 years. I'd imagine that jetliners worked that way too. I think the biggest innovation of the 787 was its composite, rather than aluminum body. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 21 10:15:15 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by pragmatist on Wed Apr 21 09:54:39 2021. This BEMU with the M7 experimentation is "sexy" to give they impression they are proactive and current with tehnology, with fear-mongering "$17 Billion" for 3rd rail extension, which is mundane. Service will still suck. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Apr 21 10:23:04 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by The silence on Wed Apr 21 00:09:52 2021. As someone who drove a Tesla all winter I can confirm that the winter decline in range is overblown. I think that the biggest hit to range in the winter is the heater, which unlike in an ICE car, isn’t free. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 21 10:32:38 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Apr 21 08:39:35 2021. False arguments. Use of EMUs versus diesel push-pull is about way more than grades and adhesion/acceleration. And a flowing river's valley is not grade-free terrain.BTW, another pro-MU argument is increased number of on-board bathrooms, which makes longer journeys more relief-filled, to turn a phrase. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 21 10:44:23 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 21 10:32:38 2021. Half the LIRR C-3 fleet has bathrooms. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by The Silence on Wed Apr 21 10:48:01 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 21 01:44:29 2021. You really think everything is always the same?is the M in MDBF a "weasel" word, since it's "Mean" as in "average". Tesla has a list of things that can help keep the battery charged longer in the cold. keeping the car plugged in till just before you leave, scheduling your departure time in advanced, and setting your destination as a supercharger. The BEMU converted M7s, running on, say, the Oyster Bay, will be off the third rail for a maximum of 26 miles of travel if they don't put in a charging point at the end of the line. They'll be fine. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by nasadowsk on Wed Apr 21 10:48:44 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 21 09:43:07 2021. 17 billion is a number to scare the politicians away. The third rail can be laid while any tie replacement is done, the Z bonds can be done while any signal upgrades are done (or even without, probably. All the platforms are high already. Substations are a catalog item, even ones that can accept regeneration. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 21 10:56:39 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by nasadowsk on Wed Apr 21 10:48:44 2021. After Eng's March 8 scheduling bullshit, the polticians should be scaring him, or else they are dumber than he is. He is like a child playing with Heathkit who thinks he's a NASA scientist.Port Jeff line platforms are platforms are 10 or 12 cars, the abandoned Greenlwan platform is there, no staion need be moved, CTC is there, parking lots are there, passing sidings are there, though Greenlawn's should be interlocked, but this would be a cakewalk compared to Ronkonkoma. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 21 10:57:54 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by The Silence on Wed Apr 21 10:48:01 2021. If they were to layup in Oyster Bay for some hours, or all weekend, how much would discharge ? |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 21 11:33:32 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by The Silence on Wed Apr 21 10:48:01 2021. All for five times the price, right?The cheapest Tesla is just under $40K and gets (if I'm lucky) half the range of the car I drive now that's way under half the price. The mean measurement is a legitimate scientific measure, unlike "done properly". |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Apr 21 12:21:15 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Apr 21 10:23:04 2021. How about the A/C in the summer? Not as bad a current draw? I'm asking , as I have no idea. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Apr 21 12:30:37 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 19 15:39:30 2021. They never sounded like R-44s though. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Apr 21 12:33:39 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Apr 19 13:50:11 2021. I thought that the M1s lasted until the early 2000's, making it 30 years. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Apr 21 12:34:58 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon Apr 19 15:46:04 2021. That's what I was thinking. At least they're trying it out first. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 21 12:43:38 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries, posted by 3-9 on Wed Apr 21 12:30:37 2021. Yes the did. R44 brake release originally sounded just like an M-1. But that got altered well before their GOH. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 21 12:45:06 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries, posted by 3-9 on Wed Apr 21 12:33:39 2021. Delivered 1968 -1972. Scrapped 2002-2006, though not in age order. The 1972 (Vickers, 9621+) ones were among the first to go. It was wherever they were in their overhaul cycle. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Apr 21 13:08:32 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 21 10:57:54 2021. Those questions would be answered during the test process. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Apr 21 13:13:07 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Apr 21 12:21:15 2021. I don’t really know yet. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by pragmatist on Wed Apr 21 13:16:31 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Apr 21 12:21:15 2021. Batteries tend to have less ability to supply in very cold as opposed to heat conditions. However, heat tends to shorten life. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Apr 21 13:19:49 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 21 11:33:32 2021. The cost of ownership of a Tesla is significantly less. Not only does it never need an oil change, and doesn’t have a transmission, but as I keep pointing out, electricity is cheaper than gas. I pay a negative number for “fuel.” |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Apr 21 13:31:14 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by The silence on Wed Apr 21 00:09:52 2021. Tesla says you should get about 500,000 miles from it.Hmm. Quick googling suggests a range of 300 miles and 300-500 recharges. Call it 400 on average. 300 x 400 = 120,000, not 500,000. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Apr 21 16:15:10 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by pragmatist on Wed Apr 21 13:16:31 2021. Thank you! |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Apr 21 16:50:36 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 20 23:06:32 2021. your cab car statement is not correct a cab car is only considered a locomotive when in lead , if its trailing it is for all intend and purpose just a coach. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Apr 21 16:51:56 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 21 10:44:23 2021. other half has not :-) no shit .. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 21 17:09:25 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Apr 21 16:50:36 2021. Then that should be the case for EMUs whose cabs are not at the end of a train too, right? |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Apr 21 17:12:08 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 21 17:09:25 2021. no cause they still provide propulsion. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Apr 21 17:12:08 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 21 17:09:25 2021. no cause they still provide propulsion. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Dave on Wed Apr 21 18:04:21 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Apr 21 13:19:49 2021. Isn't the electricity your car uses the "fuel" that you pay for? |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Apr 21 18:07:12 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Apr 21 13:19:49 2021. I pay a negative number for “fuel.”Huh? (Echoing Dave, and also your previous sentence.) |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries |
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Posted by R30A on Wed Apr 21 18:26:57 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 19 13:08:34 2021. The MN DM reliability is pretty abysmal too. They just live with it up there more than on LI. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Apr 21 18:39:20 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries, posted by R30A on Wed Apr 21 18:26:57 2021. the MN Genesis are at end of useful life , electronics are no longer available for any of the Dash 8 stuff, and have to be bench repaired , the Siemens Chargers are still 3 years away at earliest and fleet is held on by song and prayer. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Apr 21 18:39:25 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries, posted by R30A on Wed Apr 21 18:26:57 2021. the MN Genesis are at end of useful life , electronics are no longer available for any of the Dash 8 stuff, and have to be bench repaired , the Siemens Chargers are still 3 years away at earliest and fleet is held on by song and prayer. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Apr 21 18:39:26 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries, posted by R30A on Wed Apr 21 18:26:57 2021. the MN Genesis are at end of useful life , electronics are no longer available for any of the Dash 8 stuff, and have to be bench repaired , the Siemens Chargers are still 3 years away at earliest and fleet is held on by song and prayer. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 21 19:17:17 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries, posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Apr 21 18:39:20 2021. Do P32DM differ internally from a P42, forgetting the 3rd rail ? |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 21 19:22:57 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries, posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Apr 21 18:39:26 2021. They sure don't make them like they used to, eh? Not even a quarter-century. |
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Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off batteries |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 21 19:24:51 2021, in response to Re: LIRR to test retrofitting M7s to run off battries, posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 21 19:17:17 2021. Forgetting AC traction and 12-cylinder prime mover versus 16-cylinder too? |
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