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Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Jan 24 13:19:03 2021 obviously a long shot.By Jim Robbins Jan. 24, 2021Updated 12:11 p.m. ET DEER LODGE, Mont. — For nearly a century, passenger trains rumbled three times weekly through this broad, grass-rich mountain valley in central Montana, home to more cattle than people, until Amtrak pulled the plug on the North Coast Hiawatha in 1979. But with a new president known as “Amtrak Joe” and Democratic control of both houses of Congress, a dozen counties across the sparsely populated state are hoping that a return to passenger train service through the cities of Billings, Bozeman, Helena and Missoula, and whistle stops like Deer Lodge in between, is closer than it has been in four decades. “Residents of the very rural parts of the state have to travel 175 miles to get on a plane or to seek medical services,” said David Strohmaier, a Missoula County commissioner who is one of those behind the newly formed Big Sky Passenger Rail Authority to raise money and lobby for a return to passenger rail in southern Montana. “Rural communities see it as an economic development opportunity but also as a social lifeline for residents who might not have any other means to travel long distances for necessities.” Making the journey between Chicago and Seattle, the Hiawatha served the largest cities in Montana. Its absence left a gap in a state where cities and services are widely scattered and public transportation is poor to nonexistent, especially for low-income residents. ImageThe Olympian Hiawatha, operated by the Milwaukee Road and a predecessor to the North Coast Hiawatha, cruising through a Montana valley in 1961. The Olympian Hiawatha, operated by the Milwaukee Road and a predecessor to the North Coast Hiawatha, cruising through a Montana valley in 1961.Credit...Courtesy the Milwaukee Road The Empire Builder, a daily Amtrak train reduced to three times a week during the coronavirus pandemic, travels from Chicago to Seattle and Portland, Ore., through northern Montana, serving only small towns in one of the most remote parts of the state. Defending the current funding for Amtrak’s routes is a constant battle, so the notion of adding new ones is seen as a long shot. It is less so now, some say, because of the new president and Democratic control of both chambers. President Biden’s infrastructure plan, for example, promises to “spark the second great railroad revolution.” “Passenger rail is a vital component to America’s transportation network,” the incoming transportation secretary, Pete Buttigieg, said in a statement to The New York Times. “I believe that the department should promote, help to develop, and fund passenger rail in order to bring America’s railroads into the 21st century.” Expanding service to new cities “is a tough leap for a lot of people,” said Sean Jeans-Gail, vice president for policy and government affairs for the Rail Passengers Association. “At the same time it feels like the stars are starting to align. We might get an honest-to-God infrastructure bill and that could mean money for expansion.” Amtrak officials said they were “supporting” the efforts of local officials to expand service. “There are many places around the country that could benefit from restoration of service or new service,” said Marc Magliari, a spokesman for the company. There has been encouraging news for passenger rail recently, including the recently remodeled Moynihan Train Hall next to Penn Station in New York and the new, next generation of Acela trains due to enter service this year in the Northeast Corridor. New York Today: Compelling daily stories, transit news and a glimpse at the lighter side of life in the city. The pandemic, though, has caused financial havoc for Amtrak, as it has for other forms of transportation. Ridership has been down 80 percent. The railroad received $1 billion from the 2020 stimulus. And the once ambitious plans for high-speed rail in California have been considerably downsized amid soaring cost overruns, which may hurt the cause for expanded rail. New long-distance service in Montana, if it happened, would not be high speed. Amtrak’s long-distance trains have a top speed of 79 miles per hour, though sections of some routes have requisite safety equipment in place to reach top speeds of 90 miles per hour. Small communities across the country see economic hope in an Amtrak connection. Northern Montana still has the Empire Builder, which a recent analysis said contributes up to $40 million a year to the small communities it serves. It is the busiest of Amtrak’s long-distance routes and last year carried some 433,000 passengers. The Empire Builder, a daily Amtrak train reduced to three times a week during the pandemic, travels through northern Montana, serving small towns in a remote part of the state. The Empire Builder, a daily Amtrak train reduced to three times a week during the pandemic, travels through northern Montana, serving small towns in a remote part of the state.Credit...George Rose/Getty Images A ballpark figure for the start-up cost of reinstituting new service along Montana’s southern route, Mr. Jeans-Gail said, is $50 million for better signaling, upgrading track and station improvement. Nostalgia is no small part of the support for train travel. The history of the last 150 years in the West has been entwined with the railroads, the first mode of transportation to bridge the long distances in trips that took days, rather than weeks or months. They brought a radically different world to a wild and remote land — for good and for ill. Homesteaders, miners, buffalo hunters and others came to develop and plunder a rich landscape and occupy the land. The railroads were also instrumental in the creation of the national parks and park infrastructure, which their originators saw as destinations for passengers. The town of Deer Lodge was integral in the early days of railroading in Montana and is steeped in rail history. The Northern Pacific came in the 1880s, and in 1907 the now defunct Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul and Pacific Railroad, known as the Milwaukee Road, located its Rocky Mountain division headquarters here. “Both of my grandfathers and my father were locomotive engineers on the Milwaukee Road,” said Terry Jennings, who lives in Deer Lodge and is on the board of the Big Sky Passenger Rail Authority. “When the Milwaukee Road pulled out it busted the back of this town financially.” Since then the town’s population has dwindled, from nearly 5,000 to less than 3,000, and there is a yearning to recapture some of its railroad past and buttress its tourist economy. Deer Lodge is home to the state prison, and the imposing, castle-like stone territorial prison, retired in 1979, is a tourist attraction. The Grant-Kohrs Ranch National Historic Site on the edge of town operates as a cattle ranch did in the 19th century. Even if rail service returns to the southern route, Deer Lodge might not get service right away, though the train would likely stop nearby. If the railroad does make it here, it would need new infrastructure. The town’s two wood-frame, track-side train stations are now the Depot Church and the Powell County Senior Center. While some cities in Montana have boomed in recent years, many small towns are in an existential battle. The long distances and sparse population of parts of Montana, sometimes called the Big Empty, make travel difficult and expensive. Flying from Missoula to Billings, for example, requires flying first to Salt Lake City or Seattle and connecting back; a round-trip flight can cost $500 or more. Bus service is spotty. Spending hours behind a steering wheel is often the only alternative. New train service would open up secluded parts of the vast state. “There’s a big part of Montana that is virtually untouched, that can only be seen from the railroad,” Mr. Jennings said. And with an aging population for whom long-distance driving is becoming more difficult, train service looks increasingly attractive. “My husband’s family lives in Terry, 400 miles east,” said Deer Lodge’s mayor, Diana Solle. “We are in our 70s and it’s a long drive.” Montana is only one of many places working toward new long-distance train service. There is research and planning underway to provide Amtrak service along Colorado’s Front Range; new service between Mobile, Ala., and New Orleans; and additional service between Chicago and St. Paul, Minn. Virginia is adding tracks to expand high-speed train service between Richmond and Washington, connecting to the Northeast Corridor. Mr. Strohmaier said Montana officials would like to open new rail service to connect to places like Salt Lake City and Denver, especially for people who cannot afford to fly. “There are economic and social disparities” in travel, he said. “This is the definition of transportation equity. It would provide a more affordable means of transportation for a larger slice of the public than is currently served.” |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by italianguyinsi on Sun Jan 24 13:28:33 2021, in response to Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by AlM on Sun Jan 24 13:19:03 2021. Isn't the Auto Train the most popular LD Amtrak route? |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 24 14:00:32 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by italianguyinsi on Sun Jan 24 13:28:33 2021. Yes, but it is not a traditional route with intermediate stops that anyone can ride. Your luggage must include an automobile. |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 24 14:01:49 2021, in response to Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by AlM on Sun Jan 24 13:19:03 2021. Study |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Jan 24 14:21:21 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 24 14:00:32 2021. Fun fact. When Auto-Train started up as a non Amtrak operation, a Trains Magazine story involved someone renting a car in No VA and turningit inat Orlando. The rental car folks were not happy. |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 24 14:33:16 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Jan 24 14:21:21 2021. Rental car companies had large drop charges for that. In 1983, I paid $40 extra to drop an Erie, PA rental car in Ithaca, NY. |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Jan 24 15:58:50 2021, in response to Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by AlM on Sun Jan 24 13:19:03 2021. Flying from Missoula to Billings, for example, requires flying first to Salt Lake City or Seattle and connecting back; a round-trip flight can cost $500 or moreThanks to deregulation and the ALA's obsession with hub and spoke operations. Back in the day (70s), Northwest had a milk run that served both Billings and Missoula, along with some other towns in the Dakotas. Started at either ORD or MSP and ended at SEA (where I suppose connections could be made for NW's trans-pacific services). |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 24 16:21:31 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Jan 24 15:58:50 2021. In the 1970's, not only was there the North Coast Hiawatha between 3 and 7 days a week, and more NWA service, but Greyhound ran Chicago-Seattle route 4 times per day. Today, they don't run at all between Minneapolis and Spokane, and a cobbled mess of Jefferson Lines buses between them run once to twice per day.There is no interface of buses with Amtrak west of Williston, ND, and no longer a route between Missoula and Whitefish. So it is not like you can take the Empire Builder and take intercity buses to southern Montana. There is some rural bus service out of Havre and Shelby. There is no longer any scheduled bus service between Livingston or Bozeman and Yellowstone Park. |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 24 16:25:46 2021, in response to Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by AlM on Sun Jan 24 13:19:03 2021. The possibility of a southern route through MT and ND etc was always on the table IF AND ONLY IF the states helped to pay for it.North Dakota will NOT help pay for it (Not my decision... I'd vote for it in an instant!) I do not think that any changes in Washing (DC) will all ow this to happen unless Washington (DC) footed the entire bill. If they did that, everybody else would want one too! Which is not a bad idea either. If such were in the offing I should expect to see a one or two car consist running these routes. Maybe just the engineer and conductor on board. Perhaps some DMUs or such. ROAR |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 24 16:32:28 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 24 16:25:46 2021. In the 1970's North Coast Hiawatha and Empire Builder were close to equal in terms of loadings, and consist. Southern Montana has since lost most of its bus service with Greyhound self-destructing all over the country (and Canada), and the demise of Rimrock Trailways. |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 24 16:50:56 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 24 16:32:28 2021. Yes, we saw them bus companies go away too.Rimrock was such a good name. Maybe some one will model a Rimrock Railroad. ROAR |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 24 17:08:57 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 24 16:50:56 2021. Rimrock replaced Intermountain Stages in the 1980's. Rimrock had a couple of fatal wrecks in 2012, got shut down by US-DOT inspectors when they made surprise inspection of their bus barns, and they folded up. |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? Nah |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 24 17:19:46 2021, in response to Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by AlM on Sun Jan 24 13:19:03 2021. But with a new president known as “Amtrak Joe” and Democratic control of both houses of Congress …Not this BS line again. RINOs have been friendlier to Amtrak than Dems; after all, Amtrak is a RINO creation. |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 24 17:20:46 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jan 24 16:50:56 2021. How about Ramrod Railroad. The slogan can be . . . |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Jan 24 17:41:23 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 24 14:01:49 2021. A study from 2015? The link to the "entire report" is a dead one, anyway.I passed through Billigs, and spent a night there, when I traveled across the country back in 1995. A nice little city, emphasis on little. Barely over 100,000 people, but it's the biggest city in the state. I am surprised to learn that there was already no train service there. At least they had bus service at the time. We on the east coast tend to take public transportation for granted. While I was in Billings, I saw a movie whose subject was some people traveling across the country, and getting stuck in a small town when their car breaks down. But Billings isn't a "small town" like that. 109,000 is small for a city, but it's big enough that you'd expect there to be some public transportation in and out of the place. Or at least I would. But I guess I'd be wrong. For now. (No, actually they DO have an airport, with commercial flights in and out.) |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 24 17:48:31 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Jan 24 17:41:23 2021. Yes, Anderson-Trak removed a lot of interesting studies and all 15 Performance Improvement Plans. This one was from about 10 years ago.You have to make do with this for Montana buses: Map The Whitefish route is back after several years. |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Jan 24 18:21:17 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Jan 24 17:41:23 2021. A nice little city, emphasis on little.I was in Billings a few years ago, and actually encountered a bit of traffic between the airport and the Interstate. :) |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 24 18:28:50 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by AlM on Sun Jan 24 18:21:17 2021. I was there briefly in the 1980's, transferring from Greyhound to NWA. I barely remember it. With some downtown buildings, they were trying to be Minneapolis with some overhead, enclosed pedestrian walkways between buildings.Growing areas of the state are Missoula and the Flathead Valley. Whitefish and Kalispell are one large suburban sprawl now. 40 years ago, it was mostly forested area between the 2 towns. |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Jan 24 18:45:47 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by AlM on Sun Jan 24 18:21:17 2021. Is that a joke? |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Mon Jan 25 08:36:40 2021, in response to Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by AlM on Sun Jan 24 13:19:03 2021. How's that temporary suspension of the sunset limited going? |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jan 25 14:54:59 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 24 17:20:46 2021. "WE NEVER LEAVE OUR PASSENGERS' BEHIND!!! |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? Nah |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Mon Jan 25 15:17:30 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? Nah, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 24 17:19:46 2021. I'm sick of articles that all start with "may" "could", "maybe". What a waste of wordspace.And look, this one didn't even use that, we used "HOPE". How different and new. "In Rural Montana, a Hope That Biden Will Reopen the Rails" |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 25 17:03:59 2021, in response to Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by AlM on Sun Jan 24 13:19:03 2021. Majority of comments to the article suggested that a red state might well think first of actually taxing themselves instead of begging funds from those "tax and spend" blue states. Best however was "we're full and don't want any more people or development" |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 25 17:32:25 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 25 17:03:59 2021. Montana is "full" ? That huge state of 145,000 land square miles has half the population of Queens, NY and just 1 Congressional House seat. |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 25 18:57:15 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 25 17:32:25 2021. I quoted from a comment posted to the NYT. I favor rewriting Senate representation to conform to population.I would add that the MILW extension to the Pacific was interesting (and I am a 'juice' fan) that it ultimately a mistake. Basicaly duplicating NP there wasNEVERenoughfreight to justify the route. When BN finally was able to merge, the GN route was favored. In lean years, BNfiguredout "dumping" the NP to Montana Rail Link, which IIRC tried to start out paying lower wages. Being able to use MRL for low value slow loads and many empties let the exGN host the higher value freight. The North Coast Hiawatha was axed by Jimmy Carter, leaving the actual small cities bereft. MRL has no need to maintain track to passenger speed standards so they run a cheaper slower operation. Montana has an odd population of long term families and a bunch of overly rich who come in to their lavish vacation digs and leave again. The locals may well not be thrilled by the vacationers even though they spend money. Ofcourse, if I were Tsar, Amtrak would be a first class operation--beginningwith serious re-training of front line staff and new long distance equipment. Hold not thy breath. |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 25 19:42:28 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 25 18:57:15 2021. The MILW extension was a mistake and redundant (much like the Erie was west of Youngstown to Chicago and most of the Rock Island), though MILW tended to put their Division Points in small towns, which was good for their economies.Parts of it in Washington State were better engineered than the NP. BNSF later regretted selling the NP to the MRL. They did take buy back the route via Yakima, once used by Amtrak. Overall, the NP had more population along it, and the NCH and EB had about equal ridership per train, and that was when Greyhound ran 4 times a day between Chicago and Seattle. I rode portions of it in the 1980's and 1990's, and some of their buses ran in 2 sections in Montana. Under Jefferson Lines between Minneapolis and Spokane, it is fragmented mess with 1 or 2 buses a day. If Amtrak ran on it today, it would run via Helena, not Butte, since part of that line was severed, just as the UP now is through downtown Boise. Senator Thune of SD is pro-Amtrak. While Amtrak would never run through his state, it would not be as far from Aberdeen on the old NP. |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 25 21:48:30 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 25 19:42:28 2021. Better engineering rarely saves the smaller line--WM had a better climb between Cumberland and Connellsville but was torn up because B&O brass were not willing to move to the better route once Chessie was allowed to vote both B&O's 43 % and the 8 or so C&O had bought. In the PNW,a better SP&S line was torn up instead of the older NP.I won't dispute Erie west of Youngstown although I have always believed that the Chessie BOD f$%Ded up when they could have gotten the entire E-L for $1. Erie had wider/taller clearances for stacks and a better route fromOhio to the New Jersey ports than Chessie's B&O/Reading/CNJ. BN used E-L for container trains between Chicago and Jersey (pix of BN F45s on the E-L) beating the time on PC (competence beats merely a straighter route). |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Jan 26 06:53:52 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 25 21:48:30 2021. Wall Street types and accountants make abandonment decisions, not marketing or engineering people, who can think long term. |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 26 11:31:53 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 25 18:57:15 2021. The SENATE is NOT supposed to conform to the population. The Senate does NOT answer to the people. The Senate represents the STATES. And each state has two senators.It is the House of Representatives that represents the people. The PEOPLE vote for them according to their numbers. It used to be that there was no election for Senators, they were simply appointed by the governors. It is interesting that their terms are longer than those of the governor. |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 26 12:59:51 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 26 11:31:53 2021. And according to the LION.... The Senators should be again by appointment rather than by election.At least then sane people would be in charge of the senate... being that there are more sane states than coastal states. |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Jan 26 13:19:34 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 26 12:59:51 2021. Precisely why we should elect Senators, to protect the Senate from appointment by crackpots like Noem, DeSantis, Kemp, and Abbott, or Georgia would still have 2 financial trading crooks as Senators. |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 26 16:17:36 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 26 12:59:51 2021. Heh, just wait. Work-at-home will allow lots of outdoor-loving Democrats to move to MT, WY, and AK. Plus with GA, AZ, and NC gradually going blue, the Democrats will become less and less coastal. |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Jan 26 16:32:54 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Jan 24 14:21:21 2021. LOL |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 26 17:22:01 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Jan 24 14:21:21 2021. It took me a while to get it. When you rent one-way, they often don't have a drop-off charge; they just charge mileage on the odometer.As an aside, long ago, I did an open-jaw trip NY-Denver, and Grand Junction CO to NY, with a 10 day trip with 2,000 miles of driving all over the place between DEN and GJCT. So the charge for those 2,000 miles would have been a killer. So I rented a one-way DEN-GJCT with one company, then walked to the next counter over at GJCT airport, and rented GJCT-GJCT with another company. |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jan 26 20:43:12 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Joe V on Tue Jan 26 06:53:52 2021. Often mergers result in major political shifts within the new outfit. A friend who worked for MP commented that when they and UP merged (+buying WP) it was MP guys who kind of took over after a few years. Similsar histories outside railrtoading abound.Yes the basicly worthless money shufflers are in charge. |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Jan 27 06:30:59 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jan 26 20:43:12 2021. Shortly after BN was created, they merged with the Frisco, and their bean-counter were in charge, not anyone in the Twin Cities. |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Jan 27 15:09:24 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jan 26 20:43:12 2021. Trouble is, investors trust the money shufflers to cut costs and increase profits, not the engineers. |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jan 27 15:50:17 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Joe V on Tue Jan 26 13:19:34 2021. Senators are not supposed to represent the people, they are supposed to represent the interests of the STATE |
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Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Jan 27 20:02:15 2021, in response to Re: Amtrak in Southern Montana?, posted by Joe V on Wed Jan 27 06:30:59 2021. Actually Lew Menk came from Frisco to CB&Q first. He is generally credited with getting the Hill Lines merger through the regulators even though it was clearly a move toward monopoly. You are correct that Menk grabbed Frisco and brought in the bean counters. |
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