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The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Jan 16 08:38:01 2021



The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 (and parts thereof) – Chestnut Street Incline

Brooklyn, New York
Brooklyn Rapid Transit Company

The Chestnut Street Incline was a connection between BRT Lexington Avenue El and the Long Island Railroad. The connection was located just to the west of Crescent Street station on what we known today as the BMT Jamaica Line. It ran south a few blocks to a junction with the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). This permitted through operation of BRT and LIRR between the Rockaways and the Broadway Ferry. It was in use from July 17, 1898 to September 3, 1917.
The original western terminus was at the East River at the Broadway Ferry Terminal. Service was extended across the Williamsburg Bridge to the Delancey Street Terminal (today’s Essex Street) on May 30, 1909 and finally to Chambers Street on August 4, 1913.

There was also a short lived service between the BRT and Jamaica Station on the LIRR. This service began on October 4, 1989 and was discontinued on January 10, 1899.

Source: ERA New York Division Bulletin / April 1968, article by Mr. David Rogoff


Larry, RedbirdR33



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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Jan 16 09:06:03 2021, in response to The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Jan 16 08:38:01 2021.

DIDN`T KNOW ABOUT BRT GOING TO JAMAICA STATION,SOURCE?


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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jan 16 11:17:47 2021, in response to The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Jan 16 08:38:01 2021.

I never heard about this one! I'm guessing that this car line ran between Manhattan Junction, via Jamaica Ave to the LIRR. Unless it ran via Jamaica Ave to Crescent, to Fulton & Vansicklen. Also, the BRT was not formed until 1896.

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Avid Reader on Sat Jan 16 11:33:41 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Jan 16 09:06:03 2021.














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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Jan 16 12:27:54 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Jan 16 09:06:03 2021.



Source is listed at the bottom of the article.

Larry, RedbirdR33

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Jan 16 12:40:23 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jan 16 11:17:47 2021.


I never heard about this one! I'm guessing that this car line ran between Manhattan Junction, via Jamaica Ave to the LIRR. Unless it ran via Jamaica Ave to Crescent, to Fulton & Vansicklen. Also, the BRT was not formed until 1896.

Mike: I know that you have to be familiar with this. This was the through operation of BRT and LIRR trains between the Rockaways and Manhattan. When the service began it was operated by the Brooklyn Union Elevated Company which later came under BRT control.

Larry, RedbirdR33


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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jan 16 12:49:03 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by Avid Reader on Sat Jan 16 11:33:41 2021.

The third photo from the top is interesting. The remnants of the Broadway Ferry spur stayed up until the 1940 Unification because it carried the power from the Kent Ave powerhouse to supply the Broadway elevated.

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jan 16 12:53:03 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Jan 16 12:40:23 2021.

OK. Like Tunnelrat, I have not heard of this particular service. So, i thought it might have been a surface car operation.

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Jan 16 15:38:58 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jan 16 12:49:03 2021.



Mike: There was a silent movie made in 1928 called “Speedy”. It starred Harold Lloyd.

The story is that Pops Dillion runs the last horsecar line in New York. Greedy traction barons want to get rid of him so they kidnap the horse and take him to a storage yard on Kent Avenue in Brooklyn.

Our hero, Harold Lloyd rescues the horse and is them chased across two borough by the bad guys.

The film was shot on location so you can see trains stored on the Broadway Ferry spur not to mention the 9th Avenue El at Battery Place.

The film is available on you tube.

I believe that our friend Tunnelrat served as an “extra” in the movie.


Larry, RedbirdR33

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Jan 16 15:53:56 2021, in response to The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Jan 16 08:38:01 2021.

What route did it follow south?

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Bob Andersen on Sat Jan 16 17:00:05 2021, in response to The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Jan 16 08:38:01 2021.

1924 Aerial shot of what remained of the incline.


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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Jan 16 17:45:54 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Jan 16 15:53:56 2021.



What route did it follow south?

The switches were located at about Chestnut Street. The line then ran south as an elevated structure over a private right of way. This ROW was bounded by Chestnut Street to the west and Euclid Avenue to the east. Once the line reached Atlantic Avenue it turned east and ramped down to the surface to merge with the Long Island Railroad.

Larry, RedbirdR33

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Jan 16 17:49:59 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Jan 16 15:38:58 2021.

PRODUCER,I WUZ THE CECIL B.DEMILLE OF MY TIME.ELKEEPER PLAYED THE HORSE,SEE THE RESEMBLANCE?

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Jan 16 17:53:39 2021, in response to The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Jan 16 08:38:01 2021.

DID THEY USE THE "WAYBACK MACHINE"FOR THE SERVICE? OCT.4TH 1989 TO JAN.10TH 1899?

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Jan 16 18:48:29 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Jan 16 17:49:59 2021.



PRODUCER,I WUZ THE CECIL B.DEMILLE OF MY TIME.

You did a great job with Cleopatra. I mean the original one not Claudette Colbert.

Larry, RedbirdR33

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Jan 16 19:54:17 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Jan 16 18:48:29 2021.

MAN,WAS SHE HOT!


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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Jan 16 20:23:57 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Jan 16 17:45:54 2021.

According to Google Street View there was what looked like an abandoned industrial building on that property until its demolition in 2018. I'm wondering if there had been any remnants of the elevated structure when the building still stood.

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jan 16 22:49:54 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Jan 16 19:54:17 2021.

for historical perspective, I believe she was C VII

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Jan 17 00:30:27 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by Avid Reader on Sat Jan 16 11:33:41 2021.

What! No photo of Driggs Ave station?

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Mitch45 on Sun Jan 17 03:22:23 2021, in response to The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Jan 16 08:38:01 2021.

I’ve seen photos of that connection. A very nice piece of engineering.

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 17 09:03:57 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Jan 16 20:23:57 2021.

Blue Ridge Farms, if you are from the area you know what that was. The site burned down about 10 years ago.

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Jan 17 09:04:49 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Jan 16 12:27:54 2021.

I don`t have the article.can you post it?

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Mitch45 on Sun Jan 17 09:06:50 2021, in response to The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Jan 16 08:38:01 2021.

I’ve seen photos of that connection. A very nice piece of engineering.

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 17 09:07:40 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Jan 16 12:40:23 2021.

I think he's referring to the BRT el service to Jamaica station via this connection. This is news to me as well. I wonder what happened and why the BRT chose to build the ramp at Cypress Hills to street level instead of this routing....

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Jan 17 09:08:38 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by Mitch45 on Sun Jan 17 09:06:50 2021.

no photos of any train on the structure have surfaced.

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Jan 17 09:10:01 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 17 09:07:40 2021.

good question.if you find the answer,please post it.


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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sun Jan 17 09:11:17 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Jan 17 09:04:49 2021.



Steve: e-mail me. I will send you a copy.

Larry, RedbirdR33

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 17 09:14:32 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by Mitch45 on Sun Jan 17 09:06:50 2021.

Had they ever deiced to put the el along Jamaica Av in a tunnel, that ramp might have been useful for that too.

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 17 09:15:28 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Jan 17 09:10:01 2021.

The only logical answer I can come up with was that the LIRR couldn't compete with the cheaper BRT el service.

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Jan 17 11:01:44 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jan 16 22:49:54 2021.

sorry,I don`t speak roman numerials

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Jan 17 11:03:08 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sun Jan 17 09:11:17 2021.

can`t,cupcakes pc is not set up to do this..

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Jan 17 11:04:42 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 17 09:15:28 2021.

thank you,mr. spock.

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sun Jan 17 11:14:12 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Jan 17 11:03:08 2021.



Steve: I don't want to post my mailing address on this board. Have a trusted (if you have one) e-mail with your mailing address.

Larry, RedbirdR33

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by MainR3664 on Sun Jan 17 11:15:10 2021, in response to The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Jan 16 08:38:01 2021.

Seems to me that this would have been a useful service nowadays, and would make better use of Chambers Street and the other Nassau Street stations...

Oh well.

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by MainR3664 on Sun Jan 17 11:20:00 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Jan 16 15:38:58 2021.

Isn't that the movie where our hero drives a taxi like a lunatic and nearly kills Babe Ruth? That pic also showed the 9AEL at Battery Place...

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Jan 17 11:51:13 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sun Jan 17 11:14:12 2021.

no can do,U use cupcakes pc-n- various libraries pc`s.wel will try to work something out.

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 17 12:49:33 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 17 09:07:40 2021.

BRT had a commitment to run along Jamaica Avenue given that thousands of houses were to be built along it, which were to serve businesses all along the way on Jamaica Av in Richmond Hill and Woodhaven. Atlantic Avenue was too far away.

BRT never ran a joint service with LIRR to anywhere except Rockaway Beach even though LIRR-Jamaica and points east would have been physically possible. Too bad. It would have been like the Chicago interurbans jumping onto the L in the Loop and at Howard. But that would have been competition against the LIRR west of Chestnut Street into Flatbush Terminal for Wall Streeters.

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 17 12:52:12 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by MainR3664 on Sun Jan 17 11:15:10 2021.

Once the LIRR submerged itself under Atlantic Av in 1942, that would have killed it right then and there.

Had it survived, the Jamaica el would have been torn down east of 111th, but never replaced with Archer.

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sun Jan 17 12:56:52 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by MainR3664 on Sun Jan 17 11:20:00 2021.



It may well be. They even take a ride to Coney Island on the subway.

Larry, RedbirdR33



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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Jan 17 14:10:13 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Jan 17 11:01:44 2021.

well, historians do. the Cleopatra we allknow about was the seventh woman in that ruling family with that name.

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 17 18:39:54 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 17 12:49:33 2021.

This conflicts with what Larry posted

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Avid Reader on Mon Jan 18 09:27:03 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Jan 17 00:30:27 2021.

I'M LOOKIN'!

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Avid Reader on Mon Jan 18 09:43:36 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 17 09:03:57 2021.








This was a BRT-style coupler, as these MP41 cars were built to run in joint LIRR/BRT operation (which ended in 1917) and were even nicknamed "Gibbs Cars" after the guy who designed the similar electric passenger cars for the BRT. After purchasing a bunch of these cars in 1905 for operation in newly-electrified territory, the LIRR purchased new MP54 cars in 1909-10. The shorter, MP41 cars were eventually relegated to rapid-transit service along the Atlantic branch and the longer and newer MP54 cars were used in the rest of electrified territory. I've never seen the coupler pushed over to one side like that. The last two MP41 cars to see LIRR service (#'s 1100, 1101) were used on the Mitchel Field Shuttle into the late 1940s, when they were replaced by two MP54 cars. (See image above from 1908 and note the coupler.) Archive/Info: Dave Keller


MP41 convertible third rail shoe from the LIRR to the BMT


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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Jan 18 10:52:16 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by Avid Reader on Mon Jan 18 09:43:36 2021.



Avid: Thank you for this set of photographs. I especially like the one of the MP-41. Notice the third person from the left. I had no idea that Tunnelrat once sported a mustache.

Larry, RedbirdR33

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by TUNNELRAT on Mon Jan 18 11:22:29 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by Avid Reader on Mon Jan 18 09:43:36 2021.

as told to me by Joe Cunningham:the 1200,1300-n-1400 gate cars were made to MU with the MP41`S.I sure look dashing with my `stash forgot that you-n-ELkeeper were standing on the 3rd rail running board,annoying little bastards============== till this very day.

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Jan 18 11:24:20 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by Avid Reader on Mon Jan 18 09:43:36 2021.

Based on the 1930's looking car the first photo must have been taken within a few years of the incline's demolition in or around 1940. By that time it would have been out of service for 15 or more years.

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jan 18 13:01:26 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by TUNNELRAT on Mon Jan 18 11:22:29 2021.

"Quick, Larry, let's take a swig of Uncle Steve's vodka, while he poses for the camera!"

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jan 18 13:52:08 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Jan 17 11:01:44 2021.

Count all of your fingers and toes 10 times, add 5 fingers from one hand and 3 from the other!

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jan 18 14:01:19 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 17 12:49:33 2021.

I also learned the same version of BRT/LIRR events as Joe V.

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Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline

Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jan 18 14:07:58 2021, in response to Re: The Tuscarora Book of Forgotten Stations No. 21 - Chestnut Street Incline, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jan 18 13:52:08 2021.

Make that 2 fingers, not 3. Total is 107.

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