|
|
| MYA could approve massive service cuts (1560219) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
[1 2] |
||
|
|
Page 1 of 2 |
|
|
| (1560219) | |
MYA could approve massive service cuts |
|
|
Posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Oct 23 11:54:11 2020 Need stimulus or something |
|
|
| (1560220) | |
Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts |
|
|
Posted by Mitch45 on Fri Oct 23 11:57:40 2020, in response to MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Oct 23 11:54:11 2020. MYA?Metropolitan Yenta Authority? |
|
|
| (1560226) | |
Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts |
|
|
Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Fri Oct 23 14:42:00 2020, in response to Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Oct 23 11:57:40 2020. Probably a typo. |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1560227) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts |
|
|
Posted by italianstallion on Fri Oct 23 14:48:24 2020, in response to MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Oct 23 11:54:11 2020. Corrected title. |
|
|
| (1560230) | |
Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts |
|
|
Posted by Steamdriven on Fri Oct 23 15:39:02 2020, in response to MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Oct 23 11:54:11 2020. Lower ridership, thus lower service. If trains are half empty, run half trains. With lower demand there’s enough equipment to leave half the fleet in halves and run the full trains only when needed.Every other organization, person and animal is tasked with adapting to changing circumstances. Why should one be exempt? |
|
|
| (1560231) | |
Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 23 16:10:46 2020, in response to Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by Steamdriven on Fri Oct 23 15:39:02 2020. Huh? That would count as a "service cut". Any such service cuts would be "adapting to changing circumstances." |
|
|
| (1560233) | |
Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts |
|
|
Posted by numbersix on Fri Oct 23 16:32:34 2020, in response to Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by Steamdriven on Fri Oct 23 15:39:02 2020. 8 car trains = social distance.4 cars = Boro Park wedding. |
|
|
| (1560234) | |
Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts |
|
|
Posted by Dutchrailnut on Fri Oct 23 16:35:27 2020, in response to Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by numbersix on Fri Oct 23 16:32:34 2020. so your saying.... |
|
|
| (1560235) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts |
|
|
Posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Oct 23 16:35:50 2020, in response to Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Oct 23 11:57:40 2020. Fixed Title. My bad! |
|
|
| (1560236) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Oct 23 16:47:36 2020, in response to MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Oct 23 11:54:11 2020. Yawn. Same old BS scaremongering. |
|
|
| (1560246) | |
Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts |
|
|
Posted by jailhousedoc on Fri Oct 23 19:20:15 2020, in response to Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 23 16:10:46 2020. Why not get rid of the termite food - dead wood - that agencies like the MTA , Port Authority and NJT are full of. Having a job just because Uncle Bob is Congressman Lester's drinking buddy is where the real cuts should be made. Replace excess managers and administrators with computers would be a start. |
|
|
| (1560251) | |
Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts |
|
|
Posted by Steamdriven on Sat Oct 24 00:24:06 2020, in response to Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by numbersix on Fri Oct 23 16:32:34 2020. Yeah, you’d have to change the definition of acceptable crowding. But it just won’t work with 6 foot person spacing. Maybe they’ll have to run with open windows, or the HVAC set to blow-through not recirc... if it can do that.While I’m skeptical about masks being some sorta miracle, a subway car is exactly the place to use them for whatever amount of good they can do. If MTA a) requires masks and b) requires them on everyone’s face, not under the chin, below the nose, removed to cough, etc, then you’re less likely to catch stuff; their masks plus yours probably have a decent combined effect. You don’t need to stop every virus molecule. We have to adjust and adapt, we just can’t have everything. |
|
|
| (1560252) | |
Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts |
|
|
Posted by Steamdriven on Sat Oct 24 00:26:28 2020, in response to Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by jailhousedoc on Fri Oct 23 19:20:15 2020. Unfortunately, those people are the one who will be kept. Politicians look at transit and ask “What’s in it for ME?”, and passing favors around is good for them. Look what happened to the last MTA head, the one who thought his job was to make the d—m thing work right. |
|
|
| (1560253) | |
Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts |
|
|
Posted by Express Rider on Sat Oct 24 02:45:24 2020, in response to Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Oct 23 11:57:40 2020. I found a really nice girl for you. She's a what? She drives a subway train? They used to call them motormen didn't they? |
|
|
| (1560259) | |
Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts |
|
|
Posted by jailhousedoc on Sat Oct 24 08:39:39 2020, in response to Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by Steamdriven on Sat Oct 24 00:26:28 2020. Andy was out in the trenches working and making - unconsciously - the other political hacks look like the lazy good-for-nothing bums that they really were, so moves were made to oust him. It will come back to haunt them.. |
|
|
| (1560264) | |
Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts |
|
|
Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Oct 24 10:50:13 2020, in response to Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by jailhousedoc on Sat Oct 24 08:39:39 2020. What goes around, comes around. |
|
|
| (1560268) | |
Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts |
|
|
Posted by Michael549 on Sat Oct 24 12:02:11 2020, in response to Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by Steamdriven on Fri Oct 23 15:39:02 2020. From a previous message:"Lower ridership, thus lower service. If trains are half empty, run half trains. With lower demand there’s enough equipment to leave half the fleet in halves and run the full trains only when needed." I thought that the usual argument about "cutting trains in half for low-ridership periods" was that it was MORE EFFORT, WEAR-AND-TEAR and MANPOWER than to just leave the trains full-size. As well as the issues of varying levels of crowding even during "low-ridership" periods. Of course this is in addition to the current issues of social distancing. Just wondering. Mike |
|
|
| (1560275) | |
Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts |
|
|
Posted by Steamdriven on Sat Oct 24 15:47:54 2020, in response to Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by Michael549 on Sat Oct 24 12:02:11 2020. Not when you have extra trains. With a sharp drop in ridership, fewer trains are needed.As a thought exercise: Take only the trains which are under-used (say, under 40% full, if running at pre-virus frequencies), and split them. Now you have twice the number of half-trains, which is more half-trains than the minimum needed to address the over-capacity. But you still have some (let’s say, 2/3rd of the fleet) in full trains for the peak of rush hour. Thus: There’s no need to constantly split and combine trains, because you have more than enough equipment. That wasn’t the case when the system was stuffed to puking at peak hours, it is the case now. |
|
|
| (1560278) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 24 16:14:32 2020, in response to Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by Michael549 on Sat Oct 24 12:02:11 2020. I thought that the usual argument about "cutting trains in half for low-ridership periods" was that it was MORE EFFORT, WEAR-AND-TEAR and MANPOWER than to just leave the trains full-sizeNot if it's for an extended period versus on-peak/off-peak. |
|
|
| (1560279) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 24 16:16:05 2020, in response to Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by Steamdriven on Sat Oct 24 00:26:28 2020. Politicians should not be running transit. Should have stayed in the private sector. But that's commies for you. |
|
|
| (1560280) | |
Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Sat Oct 24 16:43:14 2020, in response to Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by Steamdriven on Sat Oct 24 15:47:54 2020. But the big cost isn't trains that you already have, it's crews. Two half trains take two crews. One full length train in the same time period only takes one crew. Much larger savings.Understood, it's poorer service, but if you don't have the money that's what you have to do. |
|
|
| (1560281) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by Train Dude on Sat Oct 24 16:46:31 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 24 16:14:32 2020. Significant in the issue is that NYCT must inspect subway cars every 66 days or 11,000 miles. Some lines, like the JZ, the cars would only accumulate 5000 miles before they reached the 66 days. Cut trains and the cars will be inspected with even less mileage . |
|
|
| (1560282) | |
Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Oct 24 17:27:39 2020, in response to Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by AlM on Sat Oct 24 16:43:14 2020. You run the half-length trains as OPTO.The number of personnel requires is: 2 for the OPTO and 2 for the single full length train. |
|
|
| (1560283) | |
Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts |
|
|
Posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Oct 24 18:03:56 2020, in response to Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Oct 24 17:27:39 2020. I guess that should say "1 for the OPTO". But don't the people running OPTO trains get paid a premium? If so, two OPTO trains still cost more than one full-length train. And are there enough people qualified to run them? A regular train just needs one T/O and one C/R. If most of the system goes OPTO, do most of the people who are only C/Rs get laid off? |
|
|
| (1560284) | |
Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Sat Oct 24 18:29:04 2020, in response to Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Oct 24 17:27:39 2020. Is the MTA allowed to run long trips as OPTO? |
|
|
| (1560285) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Oct 24 18:55:18 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Train Dude on Sat Oct 24 16:46:31 2020. Significant in the issue is that NYCT must inspect subway cars every 66 days or 11,000 miles.You believe scheduled maintenance will survive? They increased the number of spares from around 5% to 50% by cutting the service in half. Scheduled maintenance will not be that critical in the short term. |
|
|
| (1560288) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sat Oct 24 19:22:53 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Oct 24 18:55:18 2020. Is the 66days/11K miles a legal thing, like FRA has for railroads (i.e. 93 day inspections), or just a rule ? |
|
|
| (1560289) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Oct 24 20:30:17 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Joe V on Sat Oct 24 19:22:53 2020. The subway system is not under FRA jurisdiction. |
|
|
| (1560290) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 24 20:59:40 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Train Dude on Sat Oct 24 16:46:31 2020. How about that bureaucracy. |
|
|
| (1560293) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by Steamdriven on Sat Oct 24 21:27:31 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Train Dude on Sat Oct 24 16:46:31 2020. Those rules are bureaucratic regs, not Biblical Commandments. They can be re-written whenever the need arises. Same with "what routes can you run as OPTO". |
|
|
| (1560297) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 24 22:34:42 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Steamdriven on Sat Oct 24 21:27:31 2020. How much of OPTO use is subject to collective bargaining, which does not allow unilateral change? It takes two to tango... |
|
|
| (1560299) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by subfan on Sun Oct 25 01:32:06 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Train Dude on Sat Oct 24 16:46:31 2020. That would result in reduced savings, but not additional cost. The inspection will be done at the 66 day mark whether the car has run or not - I'd think there'd still be savings on cleaning, wear and tear, power, etc.subfan |
|
|
| (1560305) | |
Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Sun Oct 25 20:57:31 2020, in response to Re: MYA could approve massive service cuts, posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Oct 24 18:03:56 2020. While that is the situation now, I suspect that the actual C/R title will be eliminated entirely and all T/Os will be OPTO qualified with the crew members swapping duties for the return trip which I believe is done in Canada. If that were the case then it could be feasible to operate short OPTO trains during middays and other off peak periods. |
|
|
| (1560306) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Sun Oct 25 21:01:07 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by pragmatist on Sat Oct 24 22:34:42 2020. With the economic situation being what it is due to covid, I suspect that the unions will have to make massive concessions or face massive layoffs. |
|
|
| (1560313) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 26 13:21:22 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Oct 24 20:30:17 2020. I know that, but are there any state regs ? |
|
|
| (1560322) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by pragmatist on Mon Oct 26 16:52:43 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Oct 24 20:30:17 2020. While we know it is not FRA, are there FTA provisions that are applicable? |
|
|
| (1560323) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 26 16:53:58 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Oct 24 18:55:18 2020. Even if 50% of the fleet were put into short term storage, there are systems that would still require some maintenance. |
|
|
| (1560324) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 26 16:54:43 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by pragmatist on Mon Oct 26 16:52:43 2020. For instance? |
|
|
| (1560325) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by pragmatist on Mon Oct 26 17:48:55 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 26 16:54:43 2020. I don't know, that was why I asked the question. |
|
|
| (1560339) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by subfan on Tue Oct 27 04:55:53 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Train Dude on Mon Oct 26 16:53:58 2020. Absolutely true, but the total amount of maintenance necessary would likely be lower than if those trains were running, wouldn't it?subfan |
|
|
| (1560343) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by Train Dude on Tue Oct 27 09:15:20 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by subfan on Tue Oct 27 04:55:53 2020. Definitely but then there's the fact that the actual storage capabilities of all yards is less than 1/2 of the revenue fleet if you intend to still utilize yards for maintenance and revenue lay ups. You really can't store trains on the main lines |
|
|
| (1560353) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by subfan on Tue Oct 27 11:17:03 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Train Dude on Tue Oct 27 09:15:20 2020. That's true. I suppose the question is, if they're cutting device ao much during peak times, will there be that much of a difference between peak and off-peak service? If not, would there be fewer revenue lay-ups, and therefore less space needed?subfan |
|
|
| (1560356) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by Train Dude on Tue Oct 27 12:55:31 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by subfan on Tue Oct 27 11:17:03 2020. I'm not sure that I understand your question. I suppose that if you layer up half of the peak trains and then splitthe remaining trains you might have the room but then you are not talking about just one or two extra switchmen to move 1/2 the fleet into the yards. |
|
|
| (1560368) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by Steamdriven on Tue Oct 27 16:34:27 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Train Dude on Tue Oct 27 09:15:20 2020. So add a few yard tracks, it sounds like they were needed in any case. |
|
|
| (1560372) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by subfan on Tue Oct 27 17:28:57 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Train Dude on Tue Oct 27 12:55:31 2020. Sorry if my question wasn't clear. To clarify:- The issue is that if half the fleet is laid up long-term, there's no room to store road trains. - If I understand it correctly, road trains that need to go to the yard for storage are usually trains that are needed for peak service times, but are not needed for other times - like midday or night. - However, if service is being cut so severely, it would seem that the most significant cuts would have to be to peak period service for it to make a difference in costs. - As such, the difference in the number of trains in service during peak and non-peak times would be much smaller - meaning that there'd be fewer road trains going into the yard for storage at the end of the peak period. - The result of this would be less space needed for road trains storage, since fewer road trains would be stored. I'm not sure if this is accurate or not - which is why I'd appreciate the view of one with relevant experience - which you obviously have (and I obviously don't). |
|
|
| (1560381) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by Train Dude on Tue Oct 27 20:31:31 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by subfan on Tue Oct 27 17:28:57 2020. It's hard to say. It would depend on what operations planning deemed to be the peak and off peak hours. It would depend on whether they saw full trains or more 1/2 trains as meeting the needs of service. In the end, I never really believe that cutting service in this way results in significant cost savings. |
|
|
| (1560382) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by Train Dude on Tue Oct 27 20:32:38 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Steamdriven on Tue Oct 27 16:34:27 2020. Where will these extra tracks be put? |
|
|
| (1560385) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 28 01:00:14 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by Train Dude on Tue Oct 27 20:31:31 2020. Based on my experience in scheduling, cutting service off peak doesn’t really achieve any significant savings since it is the peak period on any given line that determines the number of trains and crews needed. Once the crews are out there on the road they might as well stick around and make midday and early evening trips. If you need 25 trains for the rush hour that means you need 25 crews to operate those trains and those same 25 crews are available to make off peak trips as well. |
|
|
| (1560387) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by Train Dude on Wed Oct 28 01:26:34 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by randyo on Wed Oct 28 01:00:14 2020. I tend to agree and you've had far more experience with that end of the operation |
|
|
| (1560388) | |
Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts? |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Oct 28 07:36:40 2020, in response to Re: MTA could approve massive service cuts?, posted by randyo on Wed Oct 28 01:00:14 2020. cutting service off peak doesn’t really achieve any significant savings since it is the peak period on any given line that determines the number of trains and crews needed.That's one reason why I suggested going to 100% OPTO. Demand is down 70-75%. Running half length trains would still be less crowded than pre-Covid levels. One alternative would be to go back to split shifts. I believe this is a worse solution because of the extra fatigue to operating crews. |
|
|
[1 2] |
||
|
|
Page 1 of 2 |
|
