|
|
| Re: Myrtle Avenue EL (1559037) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
Page 2 of 3 |
||
|
| (1559438) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 9 13:17:30 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Oct 9 11:20:51 2020. Take a look at the whole picture! When the projects were built, long time residents fled the area, due to increased crime and decreased property values. They had been the backbone of transit ridership for years and years. Apparently, there were not enough working people from the projects to replace that lost ridership. So, patronage declined to the point where rebuilding the el was not worth it. Did you ever ride the Myrtle Ave el at night, before it was torn down?I did and it was scary, believe me! My paternal grandparents lived On Eagle Ave, in the Bronx, about 3 blocks north of the Hub at 149th St & 3rd Ave. Same story there, too. Almost all of the long time residents fled the area, when St Mary's Park Houses went up. The nearby 3rd Ave el held on for only 4 more years than the Myrtle Ave line. |
|
|
| (1559439) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
|
|
Posted by Q4 on Fri Oct 9 13:21:42 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by randyo on Wed Oct 7 19:04:28 2020. Thanks randyo. |
|
|
| (1559440) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 9 13:28:59 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Oct 9 11:13:12 2020. The MTA deemed the demolition of the Myrtle & 3rd Ave lines as more cost effective. New cars on old structures- no way! |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1559444) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Oct 9 14:34:22 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 9 13:17:30 2020. Take a look at the whole picture! When the projects were built, long time residents fled the areaThe Brooklyn Navy Yard's closing is what killed Myrtle. It still employed 10,000 people in 1964. |
|
|
| (1559451) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 9 16:24:23 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Oct 9 14:34:22 2020. Had it lasted until Seatrain finished its buildings there, in 1974, it might have survived. By the way, the Lexington Ave el was saved from demolition because it carried defense workers from Queens, beginning in 1942. The City, almost broke after the Unification purchases and demolitions, had no money to tear it down in 1940. |
|
|
| (1559453) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 9 16:32:41 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Oct 9 11:16:44 2020. I always wondered what they didn't used the "C" cars, minus their gap filler sills, after the remaining Fulton el was closed on 1956. |
|
|
| (1559454) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 9 16:36:48 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by randyo on Mon Oct 5 18:39:39 2020. The technology to sell tokens using vending machines existed back then too, at least if they only took coins, which is less of a problem when the fare was only 20 cents. |
|
|
| (1559455) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 9 16:41:26 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by randyo on Thu Oct 8 19:35:50 2020. The street is the same width east and west of Broadway and east of there the stations all have two platforms and there is a third trackway throughout. |
|
|
| (1559457) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Fri Oct 9 17:19:14 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Express Rider on Fri Oct 9 08:21:30 2020. They were OK to operate but not as much fun as they should have been since they were allowed to deteriorate badly in that last year. While the midday headway was supposed to be 12 min some days, there weren't enough trains to make even that much service let alone rush hour service levels so often the headway was anywhere between 15 and even 20 min midday. If a train had to be taken O/S for any mechanical problem, that made the situation even worse. |
|
|
| (1559459) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Oct 9 17:23:14 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 9 16:32:41 2020. They were even older than the Q's. |
|
|
| (1559460) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Fri Oct 9 17:23:58 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 9 13:28:59 2020. True, but the R-39s could have been repurposed for use on the IRT mainlines after the els were gone. |
|
|
| (1559461) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Fri Oct 9 17:28:13 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 9 16:32:41 2020. The ERA publication “Headlights” touched on that subject in a 1956 issue, and the ollything that was mentioned was that they couldn’t be used on Myrtle because of the side “skirts.” No mention was ever made of actually removing the skirts from the cars. There was some mention made of the construction of the Cs that seemed to indicate that the side skirts were an integral part of the outdoor mechanism on which the side doors operated which is why the cars couldn’t be modified for use on Myrtle. |
|
|
| (1559462) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Oct 9 17:38:43 2020, in response to Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Oct 5 09:01:21 2020. I suspect the MTA didn't have the money to do the level of rebuildYou expect the MTA to be honest? lol |
|
|
| (1559485) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Michael549 on Sat Oct 10 01:58:18 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by randyo on Fri Oct 9 17:19:14 2020. It is very possible that such regular service levels especially during the rush hours and day times would help guide many riders to seek out alternatives to getting where they need to be - could contribute to the "decline in ridership that spurs the removal of the elevated line."Mike |
|
|
| (1559489) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
|
|
Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sat Oct 10 02:53:07 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by randyo on Fri Oct 9 17:23:58 2020. They also could've used the WF Lo-Vs or the R12s. |
|
|
| (1559608) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Oct 12 07:24:14 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 9 16:41:26 2020. Thanks. Again, I had heard differently. |
|
|
| (1559609) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Oct 12 07:26:08 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Michael549 on Sat Oct 10 01:58:18 2020. Very possible, especially since they were limited to what cars could operate then.Obviously, in a rebuild it would be done to have the next generations of cars that are much heavier with the technology and so forth. |
|
|
| (1559611) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 12 11:29:48 2020, in response to Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Oct 5 09:01:21 2020. The El would have been extremely useful had it survived, but that said, there is NO WAY in hell they would ever build another el structure through a neighborhood again. It just won't happen.As for "narrow Streets", it's the same width on either side of Broadway, so that is not the issue. |
|
|
| (1559612) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Oct 12 11:55:14 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 9 13:17:30 2020. "Did you ever ride the Myrtle Ave el at night, before it was torn down?I did and it was scary, believe me! " I don't think crime was a factor in the demise of Myrtle. Did you ever ride the J train after midnight? I did (early 80s) on a regular basis & thankfully lived to tell about it. Between B'Way Myrtle & Crescent St was the "hot" zone. Just stay awake, mind your business & minimal eye contact was a must. Eyes in the back of your head would help. Those trains were very lightly patronized, but there were enough sleepers & drunks aboard to make it worth their while for the bad guys. Often, the conductor would lock themselves in their cab. |
|
|
| (1559614) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 12 12:33:05 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 12 11:29:48 2020. Funny how in the age of tunnel boring machines, which are supposed to make the excavation of subterranean infrastructure cheaper, nobody thought of building a Myrtle Avenue subway, did they. |
|
|
| (1559616) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 12 12:53:25 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Oct 12 11:55:14 2020. Ronan wanted to "modernize" and not be bothered upgrading old els to at least dual contract standards of the 1910's. R39L ? Fuck that. Just give them a nice new GM Fishbowl, and he would go on foaming about Super Express Queens Bypass, something or other to JFK, and other fantasies until reality hit him over the head. |
|
|
| (1559617) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 12 13:14:38 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 12 12:33:05 2020. That would be wonderful, but I am sure there are many other subways that would have priority over such. |
|
|
| (1559618) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 12 13:16:58 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Oct 12 11:55:14 2020. Yeah, the broadway section of the el between Eastern Parkway and Myrtle Ave was literally like riding through a war zone. I remember looking out the windows, and all you would see was gaping holes were windows once were looking into all the old run down buildings. It was like that into the early 90's even, but the mid 80's was probably the worst of it. |
|
|
| (1559623) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Oct 12 14:12:45 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 12 12:33:05 2020. Cheaper? Like the SAS, from 61st-96th Sts? No wonder they are in no big hurry to expand it north and south! |
|
|
| (1559624) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 12 14:30:37 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Oct 12 14:12:45 2020. LOL, yeah that short stretch..... |
|
|
| (1559625) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
|
|
Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 12 14:34:38 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by randyo on Fri Oct 9 17:23:58 2020. Well, I guess my basic question is- did the Myrtle El even need a structural rebuild at all? Could they have just gotten away with replacing the wood (with new wood) on the station platforms and ordering the R39s?Would that have been enough to keep the structure safe and usable into the 1980s? From you and a few others have posted, I think the answer is "yes". They just didn't WANT to save it... |
|
|
| (1559628) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3 |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Oct 12 14:46:14 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 3, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 12 14:34:38 2020. As I recall, there were no large protests to save it, 52 years ago.Had the B of T, the TA or MTA established a more direct subway/elevated free transfer at Jay St, it might have been a different story. |
|
|
| (1559629) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Oct 12 14:48:07 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 12 14:30:37 2020. And simpler station layouts- not those cathedral-like structures! |
|
|
| (1559636) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by qveensboro_plaza on Mon Oct 12 15:36:00 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 12 12:33:05 2020. The soil composition of Brooklyn might actually be soft enough to make tunnel boring cheaper than it is in Manhattan. But the cost of the stations would still likely make the project prohibitive. |
|
|
| (1559642) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 12 16:57:28 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 12 13:14:38 2020. Not a single one seems to have priority these days, do they. |
|
|
| (1559643) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 12 16:58:54 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by qveensboro_plaza on Mon Oct 12 15:36:00 2020. Funny how relative the definition of "prohibitive" gets depending on who is in charge . . . |
|
|
| (1559701) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Oct 13 22:41:32 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Oct 12 14:48:07 2020. Yeah. The SAS stations should have been built like 8Th Street and Prince Street.They must've wasted millions building 72ns, 86th, and 96th. Especially 86th. That one's especially ridiculously grand. I've read the NY Times article from 1988 when they opened Archer. TA management at the time said they'd learned their lesson about overbuilding... |
|
|
| (1559702) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Oct 13 23:50:22 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Oct 13 22:41:32 2020. they did. overbuilding feeds the vendors, contractors, consultants allofwhom contribute to the pols. |
|
|
| (1559704) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Wed Oct 14 06:28:39 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Oct 13 22:41:32 2020. $750 million per station I remember reading somewhere. |
|
|
| (1559712) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by mack c-49 on Wed Oct 14 09:33:19 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Oct 13 22:41:32 2020. Certainly they don't think that the Archer project was over-built. However, it certainly is undermaintained. The JFK station is disgracefully dirty and embarrassingly so since it is a portal for many visitors to New York. Of course I haven't seen it for quite a while. Perhaps during some of those closed midnight hours it has been scoured clean. |
|
|
| (1559713) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by mack c-49 on Wed Oct 14 09:37:11 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by qveensboro_plaza on Mon Oct 12 15:36:00 2020. All construction in Manhattan is made so much more complicated and expensive by the need to deal with the massive existing subterranean infrastructure. |
|
|
| (1559715) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Oct 14 11:04:00 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by mack c-49 on Wed Oct 14 09:37:11 2020. In my old St.Helena HS. geology class, the "existing subterranean infrastructure" was referred to as Manhattan Schist, aka solid rock as opposed to the loose sandy glacial residue soils of Long Island.IIRC the Brooklyn side Brooklyn Bridge support does not rest on solid rock. |
|
|
| (1559716) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Oct 14 11:40:21 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Oct 13 22:41:32 2020. And the archer stations were built with awful materials. They aged terribly. |
|
|
| (1559717) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Oct 14 11:41:52 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 12 16:57:28 2020. This is true....but it certainly won't be myrtle |
|
|
| (1559718) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Oct 14 11:54:10 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Oct 14 11:40:21 2020. What did you expect from a mob-owned construction company in bed with the MTA? |
|
|
| (1559719) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Oct 14 11:56:22 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Oct 14 11:04:00 2020. So the underground streams were known as"Shist Creeks"? lol |
|
|
| (1559728) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Oct 14 14:33:13 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Oct 14 11:40:21 2020. They do certainly look awful... |
|
|
| (1559730) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Q4 on Wed Oct 14 15:24:15 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Oct 14 11:56:22 2020. :) |
|
|
| (1559737) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Oct 14 18:47:31 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Oct 14 11:56:22 2020. Bad. Very bad. |
|
|
| (1559738) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Oct 14 18:48:04 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Oct 14 11:40:21 2020. You get what you paid for. |
|
|
| (1559770) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Express Rider on Thu Oct 15 09:23:03 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Oct 14 11:56:22 2020. and no paddles either. |
|
|
| (1559777) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by murray1575 on Thu Oct 15 11:46:59 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Oct 14 14:33:13 2020. As do some of the stations the E line serves in Manhattan which have been renovated. Sometimes I think that they would have fared better had they been left in their as built condition and just had received any needed repairs such as repairing tile and repainting. |
|
|
| (1559794) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Oct 15 16:34:37 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Oct 14 18:47:31 2020. Not as, "Bad. Very bad", as the water seeping into the old Chambers St J/Z station, from the former Collect Pond springs. A prime example of Shit's Creek, for sure! |
|
|
| (1559800) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Oct 15 18:35:21 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Oct 15 16:34:37 2020. Nothing could be as bad as Chambers St.! |
|
|
| (1559825) | |
Re: Myrtle Avenue EL |
|
|
Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Oct 16 10:12:44 2020, in response to Re: Myrtle Avenue EL, posted by murray1575 on Thu Oct 15 11:46:59 2020. I'd tend to agree. The 1990s renovations done in the IND sucked- they changed the font on the black tiles with the white letters- and in many cases, the new tiles are falling off anyway. Huge waste of $$$. Simple maintenance would've, in my opinion, been better.But what they did at Broadway-Nassau was fantastic- they renamed it Fulton, and it looks original!!! |
|
|
|
Page 2 of 3 |
||
