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| LIRR+Park Avenue (1553597) | |
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| (1553597) | |
LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by eric22 on Tue Jul 21 14:14:44 2020 I'm sure this has been discussed already, but what is the feasibility of putting an infill LIRR station at Park & 33rd in Manhattan? Are the tracks flat at this point? Is there room for platforms? Etc |
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| (1553598) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Tue Jul 21 14:24:54 2020, in response to LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by eric22 on Tue Jul 21 14:14:44 2020. The tracks are on a grade. |
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| (1553603) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Jul 21 14:46:09 2020, in response to LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by eric22 on Tue Jul 21 14:14:44 2020. You would have to cut into the steel tunnel shell. |
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| (1553610) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by K. Trout on Tue Jul 21 15:28:21 2020, in response to LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by eric22 on Tue Jul 21 14:14:44 2020. IMO the scheduling in and out of Penn is too delicate to allow for it even if the structural issues were resolved. |
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| (1553647) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by andy on Tue Jul 21 20:21:31 2020, in response to LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by eric22 on Tue Jul 21 14:14:44 2020. What is the purpose of even suggesting such a station when East Side Access will allow direct LIRR train service to the Midtown east area? |
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| (1553668) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by eric22 on Wed Jul 22 00:58:34 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by andy on Tue Jul 21 20:21:31 2020. 1) To decrease dwell times at Penn2) To provide direct East Side access for NJT commuters when through running is instituted |
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| (1553669) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by eric22 on Wed Jul 22 01:01:18 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Union Tpke on Tue Jul 21 14:24:54 2020. Do you know how much of a grade at this point? |
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| (1553670) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by VictorM on Wed Jul 22 01:13:43 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by eric22 on Wed Jul 22 01:01:18 2020. 1.5% |
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| (1553678) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jul 22 08:14:34 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by eric22 on Wed Jul 22 00:58:34 2020. There are no dwell times at NYP.Equipment arrives when a platform is available and leaves when it is scheduled to leave. Besides I thunked that the OP was speaking about tail tracks at the LIRR GCT station. If tailtracks there were, then one kud put a platform there. But alass there are none, and no point to them eider. |
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| (1553682) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Jul 22 08:54:19 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by eric22 on Wed Jul 22 00:58:34 2020. The concept of dwell time does not exist at a terminal station. LIRR can load 1,000 people and go in 4 minutes.NJT thru-running is nothing more than a fantasy of planners and foamers and serves no purpose. Nobody in NJ wants to go to Jamaica. |
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| (1553683) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Jul 22 08:56:27 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jul 22 08:14:34 2020. I thought ESA did have tail tracks extending down a few blocks. But there is no place for a platform. That would be like sticking in a platform at the IND Jamaica terminal yard beyond 179th. There is no point. |
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| (1553712) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by sloth on Wed Jul 22 13:41:49 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by eric22 on Wed Jul 22 00:58:34 2020. It would have the opposite effect. Eastbounds would be unable to leave Penn in a timely fashion due to trains ahead making the station stop. It would become more difficult to move trains through C and JO. |
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| (1553738) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Jul 22 17:04:24 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Joe V on Wed Jul 22 08:54:19 2020. Wow..."Nobody in NJ wants to go to Jamaica...". Not true,as I am a living testimonial for the need. |
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| (1553744) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Jul 22 18:09:18 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Joe V on Wed Jul 22 08:54:19 2020. "Nobody in NJ wants to go to Jamaica."Except if you want to go to JFK airport w/o schlepping on a bus and its traffic. |
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| (1553750) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Jul 22 19:03:15 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Jul 22 18:09:18 2020. Thru running ain't ever happening. Get over it. |
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| (1553770) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Jul 22 22:33:19 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Joe V on Wed Jul 22 19:03:15 2020. "Thru running ain't ever happening. Get over it."I'm glad to hear that your balls are crystal. Haven't you ever heard of "never say never"? |
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| (1553771) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Brightonr68 on Wed Jul 22 22:37:43 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Jul 22 18:09:18 2020. Jamaica could open up office building if no train went therep |
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| (1553783) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jul 23 00:43:30 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Joe V on Wed Jul 22 19:03:15 2020. Isn’t that what was being said about the M/V combination? |
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| (1553789) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jul 23 06:55:33 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by randyo on Thu Jul 23 00:43:30 2020. No. That is a silly analogy.Here we have 2 different railroads with totally incompatible equipment and power distribution. There is not a single loco or MU car on either railroad now or planed that can run on the other system. MN service to Penn Station can happen after $1 Billion is spent. LIRR - never will happen and would serve little purpose. Someone in NJ wanting to go to JFK is not a good enough reason. 1% of Jamaica - NYSP ridership take Airtrain. If 5% of that 1% are from NJ, you don't spend money to serve a tiny market. |
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| (1553799) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Brightonr68 on Thu Jul 23 08:03:36 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Jul 22 18:09:18 2020. Jamaica could open up office building if no train went therep |
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| (1553807) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Jul 23 09:51:11 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Joe V on Thu Jul 23 06:55:33 2020. The Market was down played.Any traffic from NJ to Long Island is scattered since there isn't any thru ticketing,even with NJ Transit trains crossing the East River to Queens, Upstate NY,Connecticut on Game Days. |
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| (1553811) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Jul 23 10:01:53 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Joe V on Thu Jul 23 06:55:33 2020. What about? |
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| (1553812) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jul 23 10:04:41 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Edwards! on Thu Jul 23 09:51:11 2020. With e-ticketing, albeit with incompatible software systems, thru paper ticketing is not as important as it once was, and even if they did, they would not going to give you a discount for a thru-ticket. |
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| (1553814) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jul 23 10:08:59 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Avid Reader on Thu Jul 23 10:01:53 2020. I can't see that. |
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| (1553825) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Jul 23 10:18:36 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Joe V on Thu Jul 23 10:04:41 2020. Yeah.I've been there, done that. |
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| (1553828) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Jul 23 10:21:36 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Jul 22 18:09:18 2020. If you were in NJ you would fly out of Newark. Much easier than going across Manhattan or is that an island. |
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| (1553829) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Jul 23 10:23:58 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Joe V on Thu Jul 23 10:08:59 2020. LION cannot sea it either. |
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| (1553836) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Jul 23 11:51:42 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Jul 23 10:21:36 2020. Mostly you are correct. But JFK does offer flights to many locations that Newark doesn't. |
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| (1553915) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jul 23 20:02:30 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Joe V on Thu Jul 23 06:55:33 2020. Why wouldn’t a DM30 or ALP45 be able to operate on the other system respectively? Through running to Newark or Jamaica makes perfect sense for the airport connections, however I agree that no one wants to go from Babylon to Trenton. |
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| (1553943) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Michael549 on Thu Jul 23 22:24:44 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by AlM on Thu Jul 23 11:51:42 2020. From your message:"Mostly you are correct. But JFK does offer flights to many locations that Newark doesn't." Most folks plan their trips and flights well in advance, so they would take into account their travel methods to the airport that they need to be at. Mike |
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| (1553949) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jul 24 06:44:27 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jul 23 20:02:30 2020. DM30 and C-3's won't clear the Hudson River tunnels, and the 3rd rail ends right outside the Jersey portals. There is no place to cut over.ALP45 does a full stop for 90 seconds - 2 minutes to cut over. That won't be tolerated in the Harold interlocking area, and there is failure to cut over possibility. Amtrak, LIRR, and NJT simply will not tolerate that. If a westbound DM30 can't cut over in Jamaica, it gets sent to Hunterspoint Avenue. DM30's would have to get Amtrak's version of PTC cab signalling. ALP45 would have to get LIRR's unique speed codes added. Crews would have to qualify on each railroad's equipment None of that is cheap or do-able. |
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| (1554005) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Brightonr68 on Fri Jul 24 17:35:24 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jul 23 20:02:30 2020. They may for work . Many jobs have moved to nj . If I live on Long Island , I may not want to move . Especially after Covid , many nyc jobs are moving to suburban locations |
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| (1554182) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Jul 27 00:55:15 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jul 23 20:02:30 2020. Babylon to Trenton no, but Newark has tons of jobs. My mom commuted from Port Washington to Newark for years. In her office they had people from as far out on the island as Patchogue. |
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| (1554183) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Jul 27 00:57:16 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Jul 23 10:21:36 2020. I live in Brooklyn now, but even when I lived on Long Island, I interchanged between EWR and JFK plenty. LIRR->NJT->Airtrain or LIRR->LIRR->Airtrain. Same shit, all depended on how much I saved at which airport. |
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| (1554184) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Jul 27 00:58:30 2020, in response to LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by eric22 on Tue Jul 21 14:14:44 2020. You'd kill the tunnels thru-put capacity. They looked into it ages ago. Non-starter. |
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| (1554188) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Jul 27 05:23:42 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jul 23 20:02:30 2020. Through running to Newark or Jamaica makes perfect sense for the airport connections,Airport connections are a minor demand, compared to general journey to work. There are many gaps in the journey to work commute that should be filled before considering airport connections. |
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| (1554189) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Jul 27 05:25:55 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Jul 27 00:55:15 2020. My mom commuted from Port Washington to Newark for years. In her office they had people from as far out on the island as Patchogue.Those endpoints represent less than 5% of all journeys to work. Tackle the other 95% before spending scarce money on niche markets. |
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| (1554194) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Brightonr68 on Mon Jul 27 08:26:57 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Jul 27 05:25:55 2020. They are not as niche markets as you think . Also if a train does not terminate at penn station , won’t that allow more trains to utilize the station ?More and more offices are opening in Newark and people from Long Island May work there . It would also make building offices on Long Island more viable from a recruitment point of view. Long Island property taxes are high due too few businesses paying into the tax pool. |
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| (1554197) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Brightonr68 on Mon Jul 27 08:33:05 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Jul 27 00:57:16 2020. I live in Brooklyn 20 min Uber from jfk . I fly out of Newark about 20% of the time due to cheaper tickets . Ticket prices are based on plane fill level . Sometimes you can find international flights hundreds a dollars less out of Newark .For domestic , Newark is usually more expensive unless you are flying to a destination dominated by united airlines such as Chicago . We have a rail network that is not as integrated as it should be which is a shame . |
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| (1554201) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Brightonr68 on Mon Jul 27 08:53:12 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Jul 27 05:23:42 2020. Partially agree , it is minor because the lack of good transfers . In Europe and Asia (which many people fly into my from and will use transfer ) people fly into one airport and transfer to a flight from another airline at another airport in the city . Can be huge savings . Travel search engines will even give you the possibility of you specify you are interestedWhy I would be excited if such a service will be introduced is that it would allow Jamaica to become a true office Market . It would also be a good place to site a convention center yet with airport access from all three airports. The tracks are already there. It is a no brained. Yes there are minor issues that need to be resolved . |
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| (1554208) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Jul 27 09:42:46 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Brightonr68 on Mon Jul 27 08:53:12 2020. it would allow Jamaica to become a true office Market .Of course, with the after effects of covid, no one is going to initiate the construction of a brand new office building for quite a few years. |
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| (1554212) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Q4 on Mon Jul 27 10:46:47 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Joe V on Wed Jul 22 08:56:27 2020. ESA will have a total of four tail tracks to store trains. |
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| (1554213) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Jul 27 10:56:36 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Brightonr68 on Mon Jul 27 08:26:57 2020. Most LIRR trains do not terminate and originate at NYPS. They do so at WSY. For them, it is already run-thru facility with a 5 - 10 minute stop.NJT operationally is a shit-show. LIRR OTP is very delicate because their operations are every complex. The last thing we need is to reflect delays on one railroad directly onto the other. I do not see what the big deal is about transferring at NYPS. Running NJT trains to Long Island isn't going to lead to building office buildings in Jamaica. Office building sprawl in the suburbs also causes road and highway construction and congestion because that is how 95% of its workers get there. That comes out property taxes. Businesses then demand tax breaks to locate there. When they expires, they leave. |
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| (1554214) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Jul 27 10:59:55 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Brightonr68 on Mon Jul 27 08:53:12 2020. There is now a huge office building complex in LIC. We don't need another one in Jamaica.They are best served by subway, not commuter rail. Metropark has many buildings near the NJT/Amtrak station. 97% of the office workers drive there. Secaucus Junction was built to handle a tall officer building over it. Nothing has happened, nor will happen. |
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| (1554217) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Jul 27 11:08:13 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Q4 on Mon Jul 27 10:46:47 2020. And also a yard in LIC. They wont need 8 station tracks off peak either, for perhaps 3 or 4 train per hour. |
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| (1554221) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Jul 27 11:45:47 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Brightonr68 on Mon Jul 27 08:53:12 2020. It would also be a good place to site a convention centerThe Internet has reduced the raison d'etre for having conventions. It used to be the major source for information regarding product lines and comparing them. A google search will gather more information and leads, than were ever available at conventions. Covid may kill them. |
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| (1554223) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by murray1575 on Mon Jul 27 11:52:06 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Jul 27 00:58:30 2020. Besides which the tunnels are owned by Amtrak which also makes it a moot point. Long ago the PRR owned them and ran all the trains that used them but those days are long gone. |
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| (1554257) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Mon Jul 27 19:52:44 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Jul 27 11:45:47 2020. Conventions will return. Telecommuting won't replace everything. It'll just take a while. |
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| (1554286) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by ntrainride on Tue Jul 28 05:08:20 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jul 23 20:02:30 2020. i do. hell, i wanna go direct from patchogue to port jervis.for that matter, i wanna go from hoboken (cortlandt street boat) to, you know...chicago. sleeper... i'll push it deeper: hell, i wanna go from port richmond to pittsburgh. one train. damn. |
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| (1554287) | |
Re: LIRR+Park Avenue |
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Posted by ntrainride on Tue Jul 28 05:25:53 2020, in response to Re: LIRR+Park Avenue, posted by Brightonr68 on Mon Jul 27 08:53:12 2020. jamaica should be at least as "officed" as metro park is.in many ways, long island is woefully underserved, infrastructure-wise. the limited access highways suck. the north/south transit options are pitiful. we need a viable n/s rail line. route 110 is the best, maybe only routing for some type of fixed-rail new construction. with a new station at republic the opportunities for regional rail service are plentiful. |
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