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| (1552282) | |
The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Jul 5 03:29:40 2020 This just crossed my mind. Especially elevated it's not slow except for a handful of locations. |
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| (1552312) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Sun Jul 5 18:22:42 2020, in response to The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Jul 5 03:29:40 2020. I can think of no good reason for an elevated to be even slower than the subway. How often do trains fall off the outside of a curve at speed? |
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| (1552316) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jul 5 18:34:11 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by Steamdriven on Sun Jul 5 18:22:42 2020. Elevated lines aren’t any slower than subway lines. It’s the sensation of speed you get from passing all the columns in the subway that make it seem that trains go faster in the subway. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1552317) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Jul 5 18:35:32 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by Steamdriven on Sun Jul 5 18:22:42 2020. Good point. Elevated is usually above a main Avenue so it's usually straight for long stretches.M feels slow between Metropolitan and Broadway. |
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| (1552319) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Jul 5 18:45:07 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by randyo on Sun Jul 5 18:34:11 2020. I'm referring toBarely Moving Trains BMT is known for being slow. IND was built to be faster. They recognized certain flaws. |
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| (1552322) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Sun Jul 5 19:55:00 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Jul 5 18:45:07 2020. I got your drift immediately, LuchAAA. Even back in the 60's when I started fanning the system, the Jamaica line was somewhat faster than the rest of the BMT (I love your acronym). Even on the Willie-B the "15" really moved as opposed to the slow Manhattan.Even more fun was riding the R16s when there were no outside catwalks along the "el". |
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| (1552323) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Jul 5 20:30:36 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Jul 5 18:35:32 2020. During one of my visits to NYC (either 1994 or 1999), I rode a outbound, and it was pretty fast. Even took the curve from Queens Blvd to Roosevelt at a decent clip. Back then of course, the Redbirds were on the line.
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| (1552325) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Sun Jul 5 21:29:47 2020, in response to The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Jul 5 03:29:40 2020. The J is my favorite BMT line. It’s loaded with history. |
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| (1552327) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Jul 5 22:36:09 2020, in response to The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Jul 5 03:29:40 2020. Today, we can pretty much guarantee speedy results due to the R143/160a,and when they are working, The R179s.The "Archer Compromise",also sped up the line. Too bad Subway building is practically finished in NYC. We could really use a few new branches. |
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| (1552328) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Jul 5 22:39:22 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by r17-6599 on Sun Jul 5 19:55:00 2020. Scary as hell is hot.No catwalks make it appear like you are going to hit the pavement with one Jerky movement. |
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| (1552331) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Jul 5 23:21:19 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by Mitch45 on Sun Jul 5 21:29:47 2020. It is. From end to end there is so much to enjoy. |
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| (1552332) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Jul 5 23:22:18 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by Edwards! on Sun Jul 5 22:36:09 2020. Refresh my memory. What is the Archer Compromise? |
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| (1552334) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Jul 5 23:23:52 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by r17-6599 on Sun Jul 5 19:55:00 2020. Yeah. I guess the grade of the climb on Willy B allows for more speed. |
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| (1552336) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Jul 5 23:26:58 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Jul 5 20:30:36 2020. That is a very fast line.But ridership is too high. Its a stressful line. |
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| (1552340) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jul 6 03:38:24 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by Edwards! on Sun Jul 5 22:39:22 2020. It's amazing to think people worked under such dangerous conditions. |
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| (1552344) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by murray1575 on Mon Jul 6 05:27:06 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Jul 5 23:21:19 2020. The elevated structure and the frequent stops make it possible to look out the windows at the neighborhoods the trains pass through on their way to Manhattan. |
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| (1552358) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Mon Jul 6 08:58:43 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by Mitch45 on Sun Jul 5 21:29:47 2020. My grandfather's last route (of course was the 15 back then and went to 168th instead of Jamaica Center). |
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| (1552361) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Jul 6 09:06:16 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by Mitch45 on Sun Jul 5 21:29:47 2020. The J is my favorite BMT line. It’s loaded with history. The "J" line also includes the last remaining section of Brooklyn's first el, the Lexington Avenue Line. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1552367) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Jul 6 09:32:35 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Jul 6 09:06:16 2020. "Old Main"1884 bumper block is still just east of Van Sicklen station. |
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| (1552399) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Jul 6 15:34:14 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Jul 5 23:22:18 2020. Hmm.Queens has ALWAYS been a hotbed of Nimbyism. Planning the very first Subway line,the Queensboro trolly tunnel, was met with opposition,even when there was no other options available. Once the LIRR,the IRT and the BMT managed to build,the LIRR immediately planned for the crosstown Montauk route,and the Mainline to the under construction Midtown tunnels. While the LIRR built rapid transit lines from Long Island to Brooklyn and Manhattan, The private traction companies settled upon building inner city roads and improving those already built under the Dual Contracts. Nimbyism played a role in WHERE THE NEW IND SYSTEM WOULD GO. There were neighborhoods that were crying for new services, yet Hylan's first phase did little more than replace what was already there. However, the New system did introduce a trunk route for Queens, that SHOULD HAVE spawned Several branches,inner connections and transfers. What happened? Nimbyism,and lazy transit planning. Archer Avenue was a complete compromise between the city and the neighborhood of Richmond Hills,Cypress Hills and East New York. The Nimbys screamed louder than the people who actually used the Jamaica Elevated. No rerouting. No third track. No Express stations. No change, except removal. This is just one example of why there aren't many Subway miles in Queens. The Archer Avenue Subway was part of the SAS PROGRAM,TO BUILD A LINE ACROSS QUEENS TO RELIVE PRESSURE FROM THE QB ROUTE. HOWEVER,THE business owners had to have a trade off. No El along Jamaica Ave. How can riders from Brooklyn get to Jamaica now? A train? B55/56/22 bus? Why punish riders for ridiculous people who don't want to ride the subway in the first place? The MTA came to the conclusion that "Program for Action" would hurt more people than serving in that neighborhood, so the Jamaica Elevated was diverted to the Archer Tunnel. This turned the single two track line into a 4 track,double deck line. The Compromise didn't end there. The Main reason for this line being built, was CANCELLED,along with every other planned expansion. The J line. A sad picture of what could have been...cancelled due to Nimbyism. |
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| (1552402) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jul 6 16:15:58 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jul 6 03:38:24 2020. Chicago els still don't have outside catwalks. |
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| (1552403) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jul 6 16:29:21 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by Edwards! on Mon Jul 6 15:34:14 2020. Great post.In 1979 and 1980 I played little league on Woodhaven Blvd and the LIRR Lower Montauk bordered the field. I was a buff and remember the league owner circulating a petition against the plan. The Ridgewood Times covered the plan and opposition. If the plan had gone as planned what would have been the fate of the Jamaica el? Obviously the would have kept tearing down as much as possible. |
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| (1552410) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by murray1575 on Mon Jul 6 16:58:44 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Jul 5 18:45:07 2020. The IND was built later and was better engineered based on what was learned from the incremental construction of the IRT and BMT. That's why the stations are farther apart and the curves are not as tight as some of those on the older lines. |
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| (1552411) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jul 6 17:06:50 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Jul 6 09:06:16 2020. Curly is saying, nyuk, nyuk, nyuk all the way to the bank.:) |
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| (1552414) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jul 6 17:16:13 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by Edwards! on Mon Jul 6 15:34:14 2020. Once again, curly was a victim of soicumstance. |
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| (1552417) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jul 6 17:23:35 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by murray1575 on Mon Jul 6 16:58:44 2020. The IND was designed for speed. The R-10s were tailor-made for the Abbott and that CPW express dash. |
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| (1552419) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Jul 6 17:48:15 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jul 6 16:29:21 2020. When I lived in Woodhaven, (1981-1986) petitions were going around to get the El ripped down to Crescent St. The NIMBY's lost that one. |
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| (1552420) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jul 6 17:50:41 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Jul 6 17:48:15 2020. I think it would be a reality if NYCT got subway trains on Lower Montauk as proposed. |
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| (1552422) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jul 6 18:07:04 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by murray1575 on Mon Jul 6 16:58:44 2020. Yes.Less curve entering most express stations on local tracks. And usually a mezzanine fare control area like 63 Rego Park and so many IND stations. |
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| (1552423) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Jul 6 18:14:00 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Jul 6 17:48:15 2020. MTA knew they were going to open the Archer Av subway, so could not afford to burn up that investment. The E train could not have handled all the bus feeder business at Parsons.But MTA managed to rip out the busier mezzanine end at 102nd St, Forest Pkwy, and Elderts Lane stations. |
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| (1552426) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Jul 6 19:16:14 2020, in response to The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Jul 5 03:29:40 2020. I've always liked riding the J. |
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| (1552427) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Mon Jul 6 19:17:00 2020, in response to The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Jul 5 03:29:40 2020. If I'm in Lower Manhattan and heading to Jamaica, I'd rather take the E train.J line has too many slow points, especially Queens bound. Not to mention those merges with the M line. Weekends isn't too bad though. When I'm coming from Queens I dread that stretch from Cypress to Crescent. I always thought the Q line was the fastest BMT line, N/B at least. The Q is far more popular than the 2 in areas which is served by both in BK. |
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| (1552429) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jul 6 19:25:57 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Mon Jul 6 19:17:00 2020. True. J has some slow spots but the E will crawl a long way. Queens corridor is so slow it's always a gamble. |
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| (1552433) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Jul 6 19:50:24 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Mon Jul 6 19:17:00 2020. Queen IND gets fucked up a lot. |
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| (1552435) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by murray1575 on Mon Jul 6 19:55:34 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jul 6 17:23:35 2020. You couldn't find a tangent stretch of track like that anywhere on the BMT. Also there isn't a stretch of express track that bypasses as many stations anywhere else on the system. The only longer spacing between stations is across the flats on the Rockaway line between Howard Beach and Broad Channel. |
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| (1552438) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jul 6 20:19:29 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by murray1575 on Mon Jul 6 19:55:34 2020. If Jamaica El had an express track it would be long. |
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| (1552439) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by trains61 on Mon Jul 6 20:21:17 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by Joe V on Mon Jul 6 18:14:00 2020. A question I`ve always wanted to ask, "Does anyone anticipate the reopening of these and other mezzanines?"The Lurkers` Guild MJ Sumner Ave. |
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| (1552440) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jul 6 20:46:51 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Jul 6 19:16:14 2020. It's fun. Only negative is graffiti covered rooftops.Other than that it's a great run. |
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| (1552447) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Jul 6 21:57:04 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jul 6 19:25:57 2020. If I had to ride from LM on the Weekend, then I'd take the J line.CBTC work on the QB has Everything on local tracks. Head to head, the J beats the E from Manhattan. |
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| (1552466) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Jul 7 07:41:29 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jul 6 20:19:29 2020. I'm sure that if an express track had been added, there would have been more than one express stop. Woodhaven Blvd. comes to mind. |
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| (1552468) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Jul 7 07:54:32 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by Edwards! on Mon Jul 6 21:57:04 2020. A weekend ride 2 years ago for me from WTC to Kew Gardens on the E took an hour, on the express track in Queens, but stop and go at 10MPH with lots of horn tooting. The J and the Q10 would have been better. |
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| (1552476) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by zac on Tue Jul 7 09:19:59 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by murray1575 on Mon Jul 6 19:55:34 2020. The Brighton Line? One gentle curve at Beverly Road but about 5 miles of straight track. |
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| (1552482) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Jul 7 09:46:55 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Mon Jul 6 19:17:00 2020. If equidistant between the Q and the 2, the 2 is almost always going to be out of the way (you will head east to get to the train in order to come back west along Eastern Pkwy) - the only draw being if it happens to go exactly in Manhattan where you want to go and you'll get a one-seat ride. But in general I can see why the Q's more direct path via Ocean Ave, Flatbush Ave and the bridge would be more popular. |
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| (1552509) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Jul 7 15:24:15 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by zac on Tue Jul 7 09:19:59 2020. Manhattan-bound, you can see the Empire State Building in the distance from the RFW. |
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| (1552523) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Jul 7 17:57:53 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Jul 7 07:41:29 2020. It’s surprising that the Myrtle had the provision for an exp station at Wyckoff and yet there was not even a structural provision made for any exp stations on the Jamaica Line. The Fulton St el was in a similar situation. Although there were plans for the entire el structure from downtown Bkln all the way the Grant to be upgraded to dual contract specs I haven’t seen any indication of where any exp stops would be other than Franklin Av. As originally planned, the Fkln Av station was supposed to be made into a 3 tk island platform exp station with an “improved" connection to the Brighton Line (Fkln Shuttle). What I don’t understand is why there was no station on the Fulton St El at Bway Jct since there was room for a 3 tk island platform exp station even if it were slightly west of the junction itself. As it was Fulton St passengers who would need to go to Jamaica had to go to Atlantic Av and backride to Bway Jct to get Jamaica service. The only other possibility I can think of for another exp station on the Fulton St el would be Grant Av which would nave to have been rebuilt anyhow if the entire Fulton St el had been upgraded. After that there was no provision made for any sort of exp station between grant and Lefferts possibly indicating that Grant would have been a terminal for select rush hour locals. |
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| (1552539) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Jul 7 19:09:10 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by Joe V on Tue Jul 7 07:54:32 2020. From somebody who had made plenty of trips on the E & J/Z, I had plenty more lateness on my E trips than I had on my J/Z trips.In fact it was a rarity to be late on my J/Z trips, except for daytime flagging when all the ENY Master Tower signal work was going on. |
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| (1552549) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Tue Jul 7 20:11:18 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Jul 7 09:46:55 2020. N/B the 2 is dreadful from President street to Chambers. It's a little better S/B between those two stops though.When I lived in Flatbush, on Saturday's when coming home from the city I'd preferred to take the 2 over the Q cause the 2 had light ridership whereas the Q was SRO. Going into the city I kinda preferred the 2 cause I lived at the first stop and a train was always sitting in the station, plus I wasn't in a rush. |
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| (1552566) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Jul 8 01:16:42 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Jul 7 19:09:10 2020. I worked a number of QJ and KK jobs and the only place I found the Jamaica Line to be excruciatingly slow was between Cypress Hills and Crescent St in both directions due to what were then 10 MPH timers that wouldn’t even clear at 5 MPH. |
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| (1552574) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Jul 8 06:31:54 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Jul 7 19:09:10 2020. And it was done with a lot of old equipment. |
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| (1552575) | |
Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Jul 8 06:33:15 2020, in response to Re: The J line isn't slow for a BMT line, posted by randyo on Wed Jul 8 01:16:42 2020. They seem to go faster on the short tangent Crescent Street portion now than they did in the 1960's, once clear of the curves. I remember them in the 1960's simply crawling along at 15MPH the whole ways. |
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