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| Tuscarora Almanac for April 7 (1542688) | |
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| (1542688) | |
Tuscarora Almanac for April 7 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Apr 7 09:11:01 2020 Tuscarora Almanac - April 7-8, 1957 - The Book of Last Runs Manhattan, New York Queensborough Bridge Railway This is the last day of operation of the Queensborough Bridge Railway connecting Long Island City with midtown Manhattan with a stop at Welfare Island. It was also at that time the last streetcar line in New York State for the next twenty seven years. The car fleet consisted of eight Brill Masters Units acquired from the Union Street Railway of New Bedford, Massachusetts in 1949. Car 601 made the final run in the early hours of April 8. Source: New York Division Bulletin /April 2007, article by Mr. Bernard Linder “Queensboro Plaza” wrote the following article: I rode the Queensborough Bridge trolley on the last evening. I was six years old, and after dinner that night, my father said he had a surprise for me. I had never ridden on a trolley car, and had always wanted to. My father and I had a kind of game, whenever we rode into Queenboro Plaza on the IRT, to look out the window, down through the tangle of defunct BMT tracks, to see if there was a trolley car at the Queens Plaza terminal, which was a kind of traffic island in the middle of Bridge Plaza. It was always a treat if I spotted one. So this night, we got off the train at Queensboro Plaza, came down to the street and walked back to the trolley stop. I sat in front by the door so I could see the motorman and his controls. The trolley went over the bridge on the north outer roadway, stopping at the Welfare Island elevator building, then across and down into the underground terminal at Second Avenue. It made a kind of grinding sound, as I recall. I remember there were TV cameras filming in the underground terminal that night. After we got off, we walked up the stairs of one of the entrance ways to Second Avenue, then came back down and waited for the next car to come over, and I clearly remember the headlights shining in the dark as it came off the bridge ramp and around the loop track. We returned to Queens on the south outer roadway, again stopping at Welfare Island, and that was my first and only trolley car ride until I visited San Francisco in 1979. As an aside, does anyone remember the large "Photography Prohibited" sign that used to be at the Manhattan end of the Queensborough Bridge's pedestrian walkway? I think it was a remnant of WWII, but it was there for decades afterward. Tuscarora Almanac – April 7, 1988 – The Book of First Runs Brooklyn, New York New York City Transit Authority Division B The first ten Kawasaki built R-68 A’s (5001-5010) arrive at the Red Hook Marine Terminal in Brooklyn. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Tue Apr 7 18:21:49 2020, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for April 7, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Apr 7 09:11:01 2020. The Last   
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7 |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Apr 7 21:35:45 2020, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for April 7, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Apr 7 09:11:01 2020. Thank you "Queensboro Plaza."I would have been the same age. I would be seven the second week of June 1957. My Dad was a dentist with an office on the upper east side, around 89th St. When we drove in from Queens Village (Bell Park apartments, corner of Hillside and Springfield), we took GC parkway, getting off at the Hoyt St. exit (last one before the bridge) go west under the BMT and then took 21st ave. south to the Queensboro bridge entrance.* Between the ages of 4 and 7 I remember seeing the Queensboro bridge cars in either of the outer lanes. They were big and boxy looking to me, and I remember the Orange and white livery. My Dad had always planned to take me on this line, but with job and family, unfortunately we never got around to it. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7 |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Apr 7 21:37:27 2020, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for April 7, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Apr 7 09:11:01 2020. TO this day, I take that route when I drive in, and almost always stop at the Bel-Aire diner. Good food! :) |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7 |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Apr 7 21:44:31 2020, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for April 7, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Apr 7 09:11:01 2020. On a personal note, we also took Hoyt - 21st ave. to the bridge when we drove in to see the obstetrician when my mother was pregnant with my younger brother Roger. I would have been around 3&1/2 - 4&1/2 then.Today would have been his 66th birthday. My brother passed away suddenly in November 2003 at forty-nine. Massive heart failure due to smoking. He followed his older brother's interest in Transit (though a lot more casually) and came to NY Division meetings with me, 1966-68. Gerry Landau nicknamed him "3292 and a half." After my ERA member number. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7 |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Apr 7 21:46:35 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7, posted by Express Rider on Tue Apr 7 21:44:31 2020. PS - to his talent and credit, my brother was more successful with the ladies in high school than his older brother.... |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7 |
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Posted by qveensboro_plaza on Tue Apr 7 22:34:13 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7, posted by Express Rider on Tue Apr 7 21:35:45 2020. I am so grateful that my father thought to give me the experience of riding the trolley. He also took me for a ride on the Third Ave. El before it closed, and brought me to see Pennsylvania Station before they began to demolish it. He understood that these things were going to disappear forever. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7 |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Apr 7 23:01:33 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7, posted by qveensboro_plaza on Tue Apr 7 22:34:13 2020. Your Dad certainly had the foresight to show you things that were going to disappear.I have vague and not clear memories of being in the family car coming off the Queensboro bridge, and driving underneath pillars in Manhattan that would have been the 3rd ave. el. It would have been around the same time, 1954 or '55. I do have very clear memories of the old Penn station, since that is where we went to pick up my Grandfather, when he made his annual visit from Florida to NY by train. And that lasted until when? Early or mid 1964? I don't remember when the demo. started, except that it was in progress Jan. 1966 when we returned from visiting the relatives in Florida by train. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7 |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Apr 7 23:56:19 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7, posted by qveensboro_plaza on Tue Apr 7 22:34:13 2020. My experience with the Fulton St el was similar. The first time I rode Myrtle with BUs in the early spring of 1956, my father had the foresight to inquire of one of the M/M if Fulton was still running and when he found out it was we changed for the 14 St Line at Wyckoff and rode to Atlantic where we changed for the Fulton. 2 odd things about that day were that we got a train of R-16s on 14 St instead of a Multi which would have been the normal equipment on that line. Tye second thing was that the first C type we rode was 1501 one of the first 2 C types built with the oddball center doors in each section instead of the usual doors that the rest of the Cs had. I didn’t actually take car numbers but since records indicate that the only other oddball 1500 was scrapped the year before it had to be 1501 I rode. Since preparation work was going on for the upcoming connection to the IND at 80 St, we had to change for a single tk shuttle at Grant tor the trip to Lefferts and back which was operating on K2 tk. Although nobody seems to have any good phots of the interior of the Cs, I seem to recall that the cab doors opened backwards like the Multis which would have enable them to operate in a transverse cab configuration. I also don’t recall being able to see the M/M’s controls but documentation indicates that the cars had controllers that were removed from the steels when they were unitized circa 1923 when the Cs were built. Also since this was a Sunday, we never got a chance to go into Rockaway Av since weekend service on Fulton operated into E/Pky. I’m not sure whether it was February or March when we rode, but it wasn’t too long after that, in April that the IND subway was connected to the structure on Liberty Av. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7 |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Apr 7 23:58:02 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7, posted by Express Rider on Tue Apr 7 21:44:31 2020. What year did you join the ERA? I joined in 1959 and my number is 2505. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7 |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Apr 8 00:29:15 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7, posted by randyo on Tue Apr 7 23:58:02 2020. I filled out and submitted my application sometime in mid to late 1964 (?). I finally received my membership certificate maybe sometime in early to mid 1965* IIRC (?)It took quite awhile to process my membership application since the ERA is all volunteer. The latter year has to be close to accurate, since the 2nd fantrip I took was in October 1965 on 2390-91-92, so I had been a member for several months to almost a year maybe. My first fantrip was the one that began with a tour of 207, and then had a train of D-types pulled by a Steeplecab locomotive |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Apr 8 15:03:22 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7, posted by Express Rider on Tue Apr 7 23:01:33 2020. Although it was 4 1/2 years before my birth, I can tell you that NYP demolition began Monday, October 28, 1963.The glass train shed still existed in 1964- I think the first section removed was the transverse ticketing hall. The columns on 7th avenue lasted into 1966. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7 |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Apr 8 16:08:51 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7, posted by Express Rider on Wed Apr 8 00:29:15 2020. The year that I joined was the 25th anniversary year and the organization held the first of what have become national convention. It was held in Washington DC and many of the fantrips were on DC transit streetcars which in addition to the conduit operation within the city, went out to Cabin John under wire. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Apr 8 18:37:52 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Apr 8 15:03:22 2020. The concourse was still largely intact in 1965, although new steel beams for MSG were starting to intrude. We were there on July 20 of that year, going to and from the World's Fair from Linden, but the only thing I remember is the announcer's voice booming over the loudspeakers. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Apr 8 18:40:05 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7, posted by randyo on Tue Apr 7 23:56:19 2020. I read that they transplanted surplus BMT standard controllers into the C units, so that sounds entirely correct. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7 |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Apr 8 19:48:08 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Apr 8 18:40:05 2020. One of the problems that I have been complaining about on this forum for years is that nobody seems to have had the foresight to take photos of theM/Ms’ cabs of the C types and various other equipment on the NYCTS. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Apr 8 20:54:51 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7, posted by randyo on Tue Apr 7 23:56:19 2020. The "Oddball" prototypes of the "C" cars (1500 & 1501) were actually built in late 1920 at the Coney Island yards. In January & February of 1921, they were tested on the Broadway-Brooklyn line and had subway running lights for use in the Centre St subway. After testing, they were returned to Coney Island, where modifications for the rest of them were made. These included different side doors with windows that resembled the proposed Triplexes, interior brake wheels, and all steel ends. The oddball ends had been built with external brake wheels and wood and steel ends. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Apr 8 21:51:05 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7, posted by randyo on Wed Apr 8 19:48:08 2020. A shame indeed. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7 |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Apr 8 23:07:54 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Apr 8 20:54:51 2020. While I don’t necessarily dispute your facts, nycsubway.org indicates the start date for the conversion of the C types as being 1922. The late trainmaster George Abere mentioned to me that he recalled seeing a train of C types operating on the Jamaica el when he was young which tends to corroborate what you are saying about their testing. Eventually, all the C types received subway type running lights similar to the ones on the D types and the running lights on 1500 and 1501 had their original running lights repositioned accordingly. As I mentioned before, documentation mentions the C types received controllers removed from the steels that were being unitized around that time but I seem to recall from my only time riding them that when I looked into the M/M’s cab I saw a regular BU/Q type controller. Considering that 1500 and 1501 were converted before the rest of the Cs and even before the unitization of the steels , it’s possible that those first 2 units retained the original el type controllers rather than getting the subway type and that was the one I saw. As I might have mentioned before, I was 10 years old at the time and not very railfan savvy or mechanically knowledgeable so I didn’t always pick up on every detail as I would have years later and it was over 60 years ago so my memory is about as fuzzy as my cat. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7 |
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Posted by VictorM on Wed Apr 8 23:28:34 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Apr 8 18:37:52 2020. I remember seeing the biggest I-beam I have ever seen running diagonally across the train concourse to support the the new Garden. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Apr 9 16:41:03 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7, posted by randyo on Wed Apr 8 23:07:54 2020. Randy, the two prototype 3-cars sets were test-run in Jan & Feb of 1921. Then, they were taken back to CI for evaluation and planned modification of the rest of the fleet. Production of the rest of the "C" fleet began in 1922, most likely. As for the controllers, I was not surprised to hear that the rest of the "C" fleet had controllers for Standard subway cars, given the BRT's bankruptcy at the time. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7 |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Apr 9 18:09:17 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Apr 9 16:41:03 2020. That may explain why I recall the C having a BU type controller since 1501 was one of the ones I rode in 1956. I read a book years ago called “Subway Nickels” written circa 1920 although I can’t recall the author. One of the chapters addresses the absence of what was called the “modern deadman’s button” which at the time all the BMT el cars lacked. The controllers were spring loaded which only allowed the controller to move to the off position but did not apply the brakes as was the case on the NYCTS subway equipment of the day. The installation of subway controllers on the Cs gave those cars the addition of a true deadman device. The remaining el cars were eventually modified by eliminating the switching position from the controller leaving only series and multiple positions. The former switching position became in effect a coasting position and the M/M would have to keep the controller in that position while coasting or stopping and the brakes would apply in emergency if the M/M released the handle completely. The retrofit was installed by modifying the control shaft that the controller handle was attached to through the control box and connecting it to an emergency valve that would exhaust brake pipe air when the handle was released. To allow the M/M to be able to let go of the handle without BIE when waiting in a station for an extended period of time there was a small lever on the valve that kept it deactivated while the controller was in the off position. As soon as the M/M advanced the controller to the coast position, the lever would disengage reenabling the deadman device. Exactly what the time fame was for the retrofit, I don’t know but as I understand it at some point NYS PSC law required all electric railcars to be equipped with some sort of deadman device and interestingly, that law was also applied to the trolley coaches that the B of T operated probably because they were also referred to as “trackless trolleys." |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7 |
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Posted by Express Rider on Thu Apr 9 18:32:40 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 7, posted by randyo on Wed Apr 8 16:08:51 2020. Thank you for this information. I was told that Washington Dc's streetcar system was a favorite of Steve Zabel's. |
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