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| Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 (1541839) | |
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| (1541839) | |
Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Mar 28 09:53:02 2020 Tuscarora Almanac - March 28, 1962 - The Book of First Runs Manhattan, New York New York City Transit Authority IRT Division The first of the brand new R-29 Redbirds make a spectacular entry into New York City on a barge headed up the East River. They are given the traditional fireboat welcome and other vessels in the harbor sounded their whistles and horns in salute. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1541840) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Mar 28 10:02:28 2020, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for March 28, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Mar 28 09:53:02 2020. Shortly after their arrival, I remember seeing them on test runs on the Flushing Line. They really stood out amongst the dull & dingy R12/14/15s that ran on that line then. |
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| (1541856) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Mar 28 13:16:59 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Mar 28 10:02:28 2020. Shortly after their arrival, I remember seeing them on test runs on the Flushing Line. They really stood out amongst the dull & dingy R12/14/15s that ran on that line then. Yes indeed. The "Redbirds" turned the whole subway system around and gave good service for many years. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1541859) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Mar 28 13:40:50 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Mar 28 13:16:59 2020. Talk about sticking out like your basic sore thumb!:) |
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| (1541860) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Mar 28 14:04:24 2020, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for March 28, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Mar 28 09:53:02 2020. Redbirds make a spectacular entry into New York City on a bargeAnd made their spectacular exit on a barge. |
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| (1541878) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Mar 28 16:32:53 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Mar 28 13:40:50 2020. You might not be able to tell a Flivver from a Steinway but you always knew when a "REDBIRD" was coming down the tracks. And let us not forget their sibling who went to Queens for the World's Fair, the "BLUEBIRDS". Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1541884) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Mar 28 18:35:11 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Mar 28 14:04:24 2020. Very Good! |
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| (1541885) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Mar 28 20:47:40 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Mar 28 10:02:28 2020. I was watching a game at Yankee Stadium when I first saw a set of bright red subway cars go by on the elevated line just outside. Somehow, it had never occurred to me that subway cars could be any color other than black. Alas, I never got to ride them while they were bright red like that. By the time I started riding trains regularly, in 1964, the red color could just barely be made out under the grime they had accumulated, and they ran intermixed in trains with other car types. |
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| (1541886) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Mar 28 21:02:40 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28, posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Mar 28 20:47:40 2020. Its amazing to me that they never thought to have car washers back then. I mean to order bright red cars w/o any car washing? What were they thinking? Maybe the thought was that much IRT mileage was above ground therefore wouldn't get too dirty? After awhile those nice red cars began to look like the other moles that populated subway tunnels. |
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| (1541891) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Mar 29 00:49:01 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Mar 28 21:02:40 2020. When I first saw pix of thenew cars at a midwest electric railfanmyg.;someone heckled "New York has a new color for dirt". Of course, at the time CTA washed cars...so you could enjoythe paint schemes. |
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| (1541894) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun Mar 29 03:28:31 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Mar 28 16:32:53 2020. Flivvers and Steinways - weren't the bodies actually identical? And the only way to tell them apart when they were in service (for railfans/ not IRT, BOT, TA, employees) was to look at the number plates to determine the series and each car's class?The sloping roof vents (w/marker lights) at each end of the car were not steel* in the Gibbs Hi-V fleet (was this true for the Hedleys' vent roofs as well? I don't remember). Was this a visual characteristic that would have been observable when the cars were in service? *(per the Interborough Fleet book) Also in the book, I read that the Lo-V's (don't remember which Lo-V group this began with) had redesigned center ceilings inside the cars - don't remember the details; a kind of 'second', or drop ceiling? I was doing a paper on the Subway in the 8th grade; among the items the TA sent me, was the 1962-63 annual report. On the first few pages was a picture of a brand new Bluebird. I was really knocked out by what then, was a bright, colorful paint scheme for subway cars, I thought it ws beautiful. I couldn't wait to ride them. |
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| (1541899) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 |
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Posted by murray1575 on Sun Mar 29 04:27:11 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Mar 29 00:49:01 2020. To my knowledge the NYCTA didn't have any car washers before the mid 1960s. Later in the decade many of the Arnines were washed of their decades of dirt to reveal "City of New York" lettering on their sides. It didn't last long as by the end of the decade they began to be retired and the ones transferred to the BMT Eastern Division were repainted in the silver/blue scheme and were promptly attacked by the graffiti vandals. |
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| (1541900) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun Mar 29 05:39:10 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Mar 28 16:32:53 2020. Flivvers and Steinways - weren't the bodies actually identical? And the only way to tell them apart when they were in service (for railfans/ not IRT, BOT, TA, employees) was to look at the number plates to determine the series and each car's class?The sloping roof vents (w/marker lights) at each end of the car were not steel* in the Gibbs Hi-V fleet (was this true for the Hedleys' vent roofs as well? I don't remember). Was this a visual characteristic that would have been observable when the cars were in service? *(per the Interborough Fleet book) Also in the book, I read that the Lo-V's (don't remember which Lo-V group this began with) had redesigned center ceilings inside the cars - don't remember the details; a kind of 'second', or drop ceiling? I was doing a paper on the Subway in the 8th grade; among the items the TA sent me, was the 1962-63 annual report. On the first few pages was a picture of a brand new Bluebird. I was really knocked out by what then, was a bright, colorful paint scheme for subway cars, I thought it ws beautiful. I couldn't wait to ride them. |
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| (1541907) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Mar 29 09:37:55 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28, posted by murray1575 on Sun Mar 29 04:27:11 2020. I remember seeing the "City of New York" lettering on some old timers in the late 60s. Not all of the cars that were transferred to the Three Stooges Division got the platinum mist-and-blue treatment. |
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| (1541918) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Mar 29 11:46:33 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28, posted by murray1575 on Sun Mar 29 04:27:11 2020. I believe the first car wash was the now unused one at 207YD by the Main Shop, which was out of order the majority of the time.The second one was at Corona Yard for the R33S/R36 WF cars. |
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| (1541936) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Mar 29 15:53:11 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28, posted by murray1575 on Sun Mar 29 04:27:11 2020. Yes, I remember being shocked to see the lettering on an F nearSmith-Ninth in the late afternoon winter sun. |
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| (1541937) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Mar 29 15:53:24 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28, posted by murray1575 on Sun Mar 29 04:27:11 2020. Yes, I remember being shocked to see the lettering on an F nearSmith-Ninth in the late afternoon winter sun. |
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| (1541945) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Mar 29 16:47:21 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28, posted by murray1575 on Sun Mar 29 04:27:11 2020. For some reason, the R-1/9s original paint didn’t take well to washing so the TA declined to wash them even when they were on the intervals selected to be transferred to CIY for the wash. A description I heard was that the first time they tried to wash the R-9s, 4 R-9s went into the wash and 4 pieces of rust came out. After the R-9s got the Ronan silver and blue paint scheme, then the R-9s were washed. I was apparently a problem with the formulation of the original paint used on the R-1/9s that caused the paint to come off the cars along with the steel dust. |
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| (1541961) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Mar 29 17:32:08 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28, posted by Express Rider on Sun Mar 29 03:28:31 2020. Flivvers, Steinways and standard Lo-Vs were identical in appearance with the exception of the 50 World’s Fair Steinways which had a more modern roof design and set back end doors. To the average railfan, the difference between a standard Lo-V and Steinway was only discernible after the Steinways were transferred to the Mainline when horizontal red lines were painted under the numbers to avoid them being inadvertently coupled together. Flivvers, on the other hand would be easily identifiable if you could see into the M/M’s cab where the large brass Hi-V style controller handle which the other Lo-Vs lacked. For those mechanically knowledgeable, you could tell the flivvers apart from the other Lo-Vs by the sound of their brakes when applying and releasing. The Steinways and standard Lo-Vs with their AMUE braking emitted a small puff of air when being applied like all the BMT and IND prewar equipment. The Flivvers like the Hi-Vs with the different AMRE braking did not emit the puff of air during applications so if you listened carefully, you could tell the difference. There was a small group of both flivver and Hi-V trailers that were converted to Steinway motors in the late 1920s to early 1930s to answer a slight car shortage on the IRT Queens lines and as characteristic of the IRT were outfitted with similar but later model controls that were installed on the last of the standard body Steinways, the 5600 series. In chronological terms, the first Lo-Vs on the IRT were the first 12 Steinways known as the boilers. There were 6 Ge and 6 WH equipped cars. The GE cars had a small master controller identical to the ones on the old H&M cars that locked in the off position and needed a small drum key inserted in the controller handle to un lock it. Similarly to the BMT el cars which used the same handle for both directions depending on which way it moved, the boilers’ controller handle was moved to the left for forward and to the right for reverse. At some point, probably in the 1930s, those controllers were replaced by more standard GE controller as used on the rest of the GE equipped Lo-Vas and Steinways. The WH controllers were not like the rest of the IRT Lo-V controllers which had the operating positions offset by 45 degrees, but were identical to the controllers on the BMT steels which came straight out from parallel to the front of the car to a right angle to the car front. The flivvers were the first Mainline Lo-Vs and according to an old time IRT M/M I knew, got the name from the C/Rs’ door handles. The first Lo-Vs while having pneumatic door controls, did not haver MUDC but had 2 crank like handles one for the end doors of the car and the other for the center doors, similar to the center door handles on the manual door Hi-Vs. Since the door handles resembled the starting cranks of the old Ford autos of the day, the crews gave them the name “flivvers.” For some reason, the name didn’t get applied to the standard Lo-Vs probably because by the time they arrived, the novelty wore off. |
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| (1541996) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 |
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Posted by murray1575 on Mon Mar 30 08:29:33 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Mar 29 09:37:55 2020. That is true not all of them got repainted (and I thought that the paint scheme looked downright ugly on those cars) but you could fairly say that all of them got attacked by the graffiti vandals along with every other car in service at that time. |
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| (1542001) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Mon Mar 30 09:46:08 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28, posted by murray1575 on Mon Mar 30 08:29:33 2020. The replacement seating really, really SUCKED! |
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| (1542003) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Mar 30 09:57:45 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28, posted by murray1575 on Mon Mar 30 08:29:33 2020. Correct. The re-painting abruptly stopped when someone at the MTA realized that those cars were expected to be scrapped within the next 3-5 years. |
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| (1542014) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Mar 30 12:35:12 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28, posted by Avid Reader on Mon Mar 30 09:46:08 2020. Sure it sucked. But there was too much vandalism of the soft seats. |
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| (1542067) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Mar 31 06:58:06 2020, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for March 28, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Mar 30 09:57:45 2020. I never saw, nor rode on, a repainted old timer. My subway riding dropped off drastically about the time they started repainting the fleet. |
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