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| IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED (1537527) | |
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| (1537527) | |
IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Feb 7 14:29:49 2020 I'm surprised that nobody here say yesterday's (Feb 6th) NY Daily News article about the Bedford Ave entrances to Nostrand/Fulton (A,C)station. They are supposed to be opened by the end of the year, according to their website. Perhaps, Tunnelrat can show us where the connections to the never-built Bedford Ave subway were!!! |
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| (1537532) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Feb 7 15:02:42 2020, in response to IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Feb 7 14:29:49 2020. Mike: WCBS reported that story as well. Tunnelrat should let us know the whole story. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1537535) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Feb 7 15:37:04 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Feb 7 15:02:42 2020. Yes!!! I want to see this so-called connection to this never-built line! Perhaps, it's something like Stuyvesant-Utica crossing at Fulton/Utica or a smaller version of South 4th St. Is it behind Door #1 or Door #2, Steve? |
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| (1537542) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 7 16:30:59 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Feb 7 15:37:04 2020. there is probably a partial shell station built to the right of where the passageway ends.it was built in anticipation of the Bedford ave. subway.i,ve posted on this in the past.on brennan`s site he makes mention of this.i,m surprised no one posted on this before today. |
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| (1537543) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Fri Feb 7 16:38:39 2020, in response to IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Feb 7 14:29:49 2020. The group that I am a part of, ACCESS, Accessing Currently Closed Entrances to Subway Stations has made a lot of progress in the last year. First, the Dan Rivoli NY1 story, Second, the request from the Comptroller for more information from the MTA about closed entrances. Now, this! We had been hoping that the MTA would choose ADA stations with closed exits, and it is amazing that Nostrand Avenue was chosen as an additional ADA station. CB3 in Brooklyn has done an exceptional job pushing for the reopening of the entrance! It would be great to also reopen the Arlington Place entrances, but this is a great start. If anyone else is interested in joining ACCESS, which meets once a month on a Sunday, typically at the beginning of the month. If anyone has more questions about ACCESS or closed entrances let me know. |
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| (1537556) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Feb 7 18:11:05 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Feb 7 15:37:04 2020. Is it behind Door #1 or Door #2, Steve? Knowing Steve it's probably behind the green door. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1537557) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 7 18:19:14 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Feb 7 18:11:05 2020. "whats that secret your keeping" |
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| (1537563) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Feb 7 18:49:50 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 7 16:30:59 2020. The way it was described to me by another of our more famous transit historians, Dave Rogoff, the only provision for the Bedford Av subway is a large clearance above the track level west of the Nostrand Av station underneath Bedford Av but no actual infrastructure was built. It seems that of all the lines of the IND second system, the Bedford Av subway has the least info available. |
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| (1537571) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by Kevin from Midwood on Fri Feb 7 20:19:31 2020, in response to IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Feb 7 14:29:49 2020. That story broke on Twitter, BTW.Twitter: 5:27 PM - 6 Feb 2020 NYDN: FEB 06, 2020 | 7:17 PM |
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| (1537578) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Fri Feb 7 20:54:36 2020, in response to IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Feb 7 14:29:49 2020. But $2 million just to reopen existing closed entrances? I know that's peanuts in the MTA's world, but still... |
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| (1537580) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 7 23:08:47 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by randyo on Fri Feb 7 18:49:50 2020. and of course I,ve been in it.its the emergency exit passageway above the A line tracks.it is separated lengthwise by a concrete wall with a door at the eastern end.inside there is a single track superstructure.you can look down onto the 2 active tracks. |
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| (1537581) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 7 23:10:20 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by Andrew Saucci on Fri Feb 7 20:54:36 2020. seems kinda $teep. |
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| (1537587) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 8 03:29:23 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by Andrew Saucci on Fri Feb 7 20:54:36 2020. couple hundred k for the actual materials, another couple for the legitimate labor, and the rest ... |
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| (1537592) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sat Feb 8 04:24:36 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 7 23:08:47 2020. Steve,Thank you for the info. describing this structure! Ed - Express Rider |
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| (1537593) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sat Feb 8 04:26:32 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by randyo on Fri Feb 7 18:49:50 2020. Larry Furlong got authorized access to this space during the mid 1990s.He described what he saw as similar to how David Rogoff described this space to you. |
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| (1537600) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Feb 8 08:45:00 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by Express Rider on Sat Feb 8 04:26:32 2020. larry told me about.I went there and did my tunnelrat thing. |
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| (1537639) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 8 16:11:49 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 7 23:08:47 2020. It still doesn’t sound like it’s as complete as S 4 St or Utica upper. |
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| (1537643) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Feb 8 16:26:39 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 7 23:08:47 2020. Isn't Bedford Ave closer to Franklin Ave, than Nostrand? |
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| (1537663) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Feb 8 18:39:28 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Feb 8 16:26:39 2020. yes.and randy,i,ve never said it was.it still undetermined what was built. |
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| (1537667) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Feb 8 21:07:07 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by Andrew Saucci on Fri Feb 7 20:54:36 2020. Is the station ADA compliant? Maybe that's why. |
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| (1537670) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Feb 9 01:09:23 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Feb 8 18:39:28 2020. That makes things even more interesting. The lack of significant provisions for any sort of station shell seems to indicate that the Bedford Av subway was very low on the B of T’s list of priorities for additional subway construction. |
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| (1537675) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 9 09:37:26 2020, in response to IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Feb 7 14:29:49 2020. Anyone know when the Arlington Place entrances closed? Yes, they were actually built. |
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| (1537678) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by LA Scott on Sun Feb 9 10:25:04 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Feb 8 21:07:07 2020. Not ADA compliant yet, but is on the list to be made compliant in the next few years.I read that's why the MTA felt they could re-open this and withstand an ADA complaint. |
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| (1537698) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 9 14:00:00 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by LA Scott on Sun Feb 9 10:25:04 2020. Sorry, I thought the $2 million included making it ADA compliant. What are they spending it on? The structure is sound and in place. |
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| (1537699) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by LA Scott on Sun Feb 9 14:20:55 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 9 14:00:00 2020. Turnstiles, Metro card vending machines, digital signage, smoke alarms/detectors, public address system, security cameras, updated electrical and communications lines to make all the above work, paint, signage, street entrance, sidewalk repairs, updating signage on platform.With NYC construction prices, I can easily see this all being $2 million. |
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| (1537700) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 9 14:23:04 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by LA Scott on Sun Feb 9 14:20:55 2020. Okay! Did you know that the original groundbreaking for the IND took place at Fulton St & Arlington Place? (Brooklyn Eagle: 4/17/1929, p4). |
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| (1537701) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 9 14:47:30 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by randyo on Sun Feb 9 01:09:23 2020. The Brooklyn Eagle edition for April 17th, 1929 (p.4) describes the IND Nostrand Ave station, the Fulton St subway groundbreaking, and the Crosstown (GG) lines. There is no mention of a Bedford Ave line at all. However, Bedford did pop up in the Eagle, from time to time. Before it disappeared completely, a shortened route, with a connector at Fulton St, was mentioned. |
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| (1537702) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 9 15:11:54 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 9 14:23:04 2020. I did! |
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| (1537703) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Feb 9 15:28:36 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 9 14:47:30 2020. The franklin ave shuttle was supposed to connect to the IRT around queens plaza as a subway and EL. |
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| (1537707) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Feb 9 16:10:43 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Feb 9 15:28:36 2020. Would that have been instead of the IND Crosstown line or in addition to it? |
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| (1537712) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Feb 9 17:21:56 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Feb 9 16:10:43 2020. The way I have read it, it was the original plan for the Crosstown Line as an el, but the NIMBYs along the planned route objected to an el so nothing was done until the B of T opted for a subway. |
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| (1537722) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Feb 9 17:46:13 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Feb 9 16:10:43 2020. it thought of well before the IND came into being,this was the time of the BRT. |
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| (1537811) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Feb 10 16:35:34 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by randyo on Sun Feb 9 17:21:56 2020. The BMT had just emerged from the bankruptcy of the BRT in 1923. Like the Fulton/Ashland Place connector, it did not want to spend extra monies on equipping the proposed crosstown tunnels with more costly steel subway cars, plus equipping the underground line. It wanted an elevated line, so it could run its wooden cars.Around the same time, Mayor Hylan was having preliminary plans for an IND Crosstown subway. Those plans called for a Lafayette Ave route to downtown Brooklyn. IRT plans for a Lafayette Ave subway route predated the Dual Contracts of 1913 by at least 2 years. Even back then, it had been hoped that any eastward expansion of the downtown Brooklyn shopping/business district would develop along Lafayette. Add to this was the strong opposition for any more elevated lines in Brooklyn. Hylan, of course was from Brooklyn and shared the same sentiments. |
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| (1537830) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by K. Trout on Mon Feb 10 22:57:53 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Feb 9 16:10:43 2020. It would have diverged south of DeKalb* and run east/north along Lafayette and Union Aves, more or less the same path as the G, and then connected to the Astoria el. (I believe there was even a second phase envisioned that would have turned west from Ditmars and more or less followed the path of the Triboro Bridge and then become a 125 St crosstown.) The idea was shelved due to local opposition as noted.The general premise of downtown-Bed Stuy-Williamsburg-LIC was revived for the IND. *The turnoff at DeKalb had already been constructed and was instead used for the Brighton connection, which sort of explains the awkward curve. |
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| (1537836) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Feb 11 00:54:12 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by K. Trout on Mon Feb 10 22:57:53 2020. One of the uses for the turnoff S/O Dekalb was probably also for the Ashland Pl connection to the Fulton St el had the remaining portions been rebuilt for steel cars. |
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| (1537837) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by VictorM on Tue Feb 11 01:28:34 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by randyo on Tue Feb 11 00:54:12 2020. Another reason for the BMT turnoff from Flatbush Av Ext. onto Fulton St was to get out of the way of the IRT turning from Fulton St onto Flatbush Av. It's amazing how they were able to thread the IND through all this along Lafayette Av. See link. |
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| (1537844) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Feb 11 07:43:29 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 9 09:37:26 2020. Whatever entrances that were there were removed, so that will add to the price tag. |
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| (1537845) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Tue Feb 11 08:01:43 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by 3-9 on Tue Feb 11 07:43:29 2020. They aren't reopening the Arlington Place exits. |
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| (1537879) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Feb 11 16:59:13 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by Union Tpke on Tue Feb 11 08:01:43 2020. AFAIK they are. The entrances were not removed, merely sealed so the cost of reopening them would be minimal. |
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| (1537926) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Wed Feb 12 08:38:28 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by randyo on Tue Feb 11 16:59:13 2020. The announcement only stated reopening Bedford, not Arlington. Do you know when the exits were closed here? |
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| (1537969) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Feb 12 16:16:35 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by Union Tpke on Wed Feb 12 08:38:28 2020. Not sure, but I do recall that by the time I became a trainmaster in 1983, the north section of the mezzanine leading to Bedford was closed. |
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| (1537970) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Feb 12 16:20:44 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by Union Tpke on Wed Feb 12 08:38:28 2020. I have tried to find a specific closing date for the Arlington Pl and Nostrand Ave entrances. It was sometime in the 1980's. Apparently, even the MTA does not know when they were closed. By the way, the first ceremonial shovel digging for the IND Fulton Subway was at Arlington/Fulton in 1929. |
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| (1537985) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Wed Feb 12 17:30:52 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by randyo on Wed Feb 12 16:16:35 2020. So the exits to Bedford were closed by then? I guess the 1985 neighborhood map was incorrect in showing the exits. |
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| (1538087) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Feb 13 16:41:42 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by Union Tpke on Wed Feb 12 17:30:52 2020. Sometimes maps are not always up to date. |
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| (1538090) | |
Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Feb 13 17:11:09 2020, in response to Re: IND FULTON/NOSTRAND ENTRANCES TO BE REOPENED, posted by randyo on Thu Feb 13 16:41:42 2020. For example, my 1980 Hagstrom 5 Boro Pocket Atlas, still shows the Bridge-Jay station portion of the Myrtle Ave el (page 7). |
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