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Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time

Posted by BrooklynTrain on Tue Oct 8 22:33:43 2019

Bridge completely backed up northbound at this moment, and trains at dead halt entering/leaving Broadway-Lafayette northbound. Problem is the merge at Broadway Lafayette with the R (entering on D platform) and the F/M (entering on their platform). The R, F and M all must merge to the F platform at West 4th. System comes to a complete halt.

Was bad enough this past weekend with 4 lines running via 6th Ave (R, F, M, D). Luckily I was able to view the holding lights by the conductor position to see which train (F, M or rerouted R) was leaving first northbound at Broadway-Lafayette, and delays were minimized due to all lines running on 12 minute headways.

They need to suspend the M to 96th St during this NQR FastTrack. Run it to Chambers or Essex. Doesn't matter if the L has work after 10pm. Better to transfer than to be stuck in 30+ minutes of congestion.

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(1526326)

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Re: Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time

Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Oct 9 01:50:26 2019, in response to Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time, posted by BrooklynTrain on Tue Oct 8 22:33:43 2019.

Better idea:

Shorten the (R) and have the (M) replace it to 71-Continental.

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(1526330)

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Re: Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Oct 9 04:57:17 2019, in response to Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time, posted by BrooklynTrain on Tue Oct 8 22:33:43 2019.

Can't hurt to have Moe go to his old stomping ground.

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(1526340)

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Re: Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time

Posted by 3-9 on Wed Oct 9 08:27:02 2019, in response to Re: Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Oct 9 04:57:17 2019.

And it's not like they don't send the M to Chambers St every so often.

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(1526341)

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Re: Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time

Posted by AlM on Wed Oct 9 08:32:10 2019, in response to Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time, posted by BrooklynTrain on Tue Oct 8 22:33:43 2019.

Why is it obvious you can't run them all at the same time? There is no obvious reason you can't run 18 trains per hour on the B/D through Grand and 18 tph on the 6th Ave local track, with 6 of those trains switching from one to the other at Bway Lafayette.

They do more trains than this, with the same kind of crossover north of 34th, on the NQRW every day at rush hour.




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(1526358)

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Re: Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time

Posted by zac on Wed Oct 9 12:52:11 2019, in response to Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time, posted by BrooklynTrain on Tue Oct 8 22:33:43 2019.

4 lines running on 6th Ave over the weekend? Isn't that normal operating procedure during the week with 6 minute headways in rush hour, not 12?

30 minutes of congestion? I've come to a dead stop in places due to congestion and never had it become 30 minutes unless there is a total blockage with no way around it.

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(1526361)

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Re: Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time

Posted by Q23 on Wed Oct 9 13:32:07 2019, in response to Re: Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time, posted by AlM on Wed Oct 9 08:32:10 2019.

The main issue is that work trains run on the same paths, and not only do they operate slower, but if one of them craps out (like it was the case yesterday) in the right location, it paralyzes everything running through DeKalb.

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(1526363)

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Re: Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time

Posted by AlM on Wed Oct 9 13:40:43 2019, in response to Re: Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time, posted by Q23 on Wed Oct 9 13:32:07 2019.

OK, work trains are a problem, I see that. But they're a problem if they die even if you had no M trains. Also, wouldn't they generally be running on the NQRW tracks rather than the BDFM tracks?



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(1526365)

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Re: Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time

Posted by Q23 on Wed Oct 9 13:55:02 2019, in response to Re: Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time, posted by AlM on Wed Oct 9 13:40:43 2019.

The one yesterday malfunction at Grand Street. There's other instances of work trains affecting the 6th Avenue line, either on the trunk or on the bridge track leading towards the 6th Avenue line. IINM, work trains going to other northern locations where work is performed tend to use the 6th Avenue line.

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(1526366)

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Re: Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time

Posted by AlM on Wed Oct 9 14:11:35 2019, in response to Re: Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time, posted by Q23 on Wed Oct 9 13:55:02 2019.

OK, but then of course just running one less service on 6th Ave. isn't going to solve the problem if a work train breaks down.



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(1526375)

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Re: Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time

Posted by Q23 on Wed Oct 9 15:31:14 2019, in response to Re: Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time, posted by AlM on Wed Oct 9 14:11:35 2019.

I agree. Generally though, without the (Q) and (R) , it's okay. I think that perhaps the (R) should have stayed on the express tracks until either 47-50th or south of 42nd.

The problem is, if the former is the case, it would have to run via 63rd and bypass Queens Plaza. There would them be no local from Queens Plaza unless you run the (E) local, which in turn creates more inconvenience.

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(1526381)

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Re: Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time

Posted by BrooklynTrain on Wed Oct 9 16:01:12 2019, in response to Re: Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time, posted by zac on Wed Oct 9 12:52:11 2019.

There is no merge at Broadway-Lafayette during normal operating hours. There is the bottleneck.

Weekend congestion (4 lines via 6th Ave) added 5-10 minutes of travel time (more on Saturday, less on Sunday). All 3 times I rode the northbound R, the R was held to allow the F and/or M to go first, even if a D was directly behind and even if the R was already severely delayed due to Saturday early afternoon 4th Ave trackwork.

Last night's congestion was far worse since 5 trains (not 4) were running via 6th Ave. I'm sure the prior work train incident didn't help matters either.

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(1526384)

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Re: Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time

Posted by AlM on Wed Oct 9 16:16:06 2019, in response to Re: Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time, posted by BrooklynTrain on Wed Oct 9 16:01:12 2019.

This has nothing to do with 5 services running, since 5 times 6 trains per hour can easily be run on a 4 track line.

It must have to do with some other operational problem.



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(1526428)

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Re: Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Oct 9 18:33:36 2019, in response to Re: Obviously can't run Q/R/D/F/M all via 6th Ave at same time, posted by 3-9 on Wed Oct 9 08:27:02 2019.

IINM they still have a brown circle M programmed on the R-160s.

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